Eucalyptus oil fuel cells.
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0
- Thread starter OPSSG
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Who says that it's a slam dunk for the Virginnias? On what basis do you make such a claim? And sources please.
No Uranium and fresh meat. Drop bears are carnivorous.
Thanks Alexsa - appreciate the expert input as always.
Do you see the 4 v 6 torpedo tubes as an issue or essentially irrelevant?
My sense is that the reduced number of tubes is more than offset by the VLS.
Regards,
Massive
I’m not saying that. I’m very aware of my ignorance.
I’m saying, based on what I have read in this thread, that the only two arguments for the Astutes I have seen are that they have tooling available soon (as production is ending on the RN build) and they have less crew.
These seem to have merit but don’t seem like even close to enough in my lay judgement to outweigh the benefits of the Virginias (mostly that you wouldn’t need to redesign it).
My question for the forum is what else am I ignorant of? Why are the Astutes being considered at all? Presumably there are some classified capabilities that no one will discuss, but is there anything else in the public domain?
Sources are various posts throughout this thread. I can go back and find them if you like.
Edit: Rolling to tooling.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Ngati, mate!
A drop bear? No no no! You are completely wrong!
It will be a Platypus, yes a Platypus!
Don’t forget they have spurs on their back legs full of venom, fu*k with a Platypus and they will fu*k with you!
And of course they have ‘pus’ in their name.
We all love a pussy, furry or not, I certainly love a pussy, fur or not too! Haha!
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
He did and the first Sub well before 2040, it come across as a possible Q3 2022 announcement we will just have to wait and see.
Just to be clear …. The RN have been firing Tomahawk from tubes for about two decades. The upgrades are to integrate the upgrade missile.
The decision to use the AN/BQG-1 was taken with the start of the the Attack Class project. It was intended that the Attack will use the Tomahawk as well as the Thales sonar suite. I understand the Tomahawk will integrated into the Collins (tube launched) as part of the LOTE so the integration work will be seperate from the UK effort on the Astute and should be sorted as part of the Collins LOTE.
Certainly the Virginia can fire off 12 in short order. The Astute can fire six. With power reloads another 6 could follow not long after. Things have got very ugly if submarines are firing of salvoes of 12. The difference is that the Astute can sacrifice Tomahawks in lieu of the option of loading out SSM’s, mines, torpedoes or other tube launched weapons that may be coming into service.
The real problem is that you and others are basing arguments and what not on speculation without any hard facts, apart from the vessel data that is publicly available. Everything else is just pure speculation because those that do know are keeping their mouths very firmly closed, as they should. Former DEFMIN Dutton didn't help matters much by shutting down Defence comms with media and anyone else who had legitimate enquiries about anything to do with Defence. Hopefully the new DEFMIN will be more forthcoming. Time will tell.
So your question is really a waste of time because none of us on here are able to answer it.
NOT AIMED AT ANYONE IN PARTICULAR
Until the COA makes a decision public WRT the RAN SSN, it's a waste of time and energy continuously regurgitating discussions over platforms and plans that there is insufficient data on because it's OPSEC, so give it a rest.
Until the COA makes a decision public WRT the RAN SSN, it's a waste of time and energy continuously regurgitating discussions over platforms and plans that there is insufficient data on because it's OPSEC, so give it a rest.
And just to back up Ngati's statement above, the only people who actually know how the SSN decision making process is progressing are cleared way above anyone's pay grade on this forum and won't be confirming the rampant speculation that's been going on for pages and pages in this thread. If anyone on this forum is cleared to the appropriate level they know better than to breach the Official Secrecy Act and risk imprisonment.
Meanwhile, did anyone note the recommissioning of HMAS Encounter ?
Meanwhile, did anyone note the recommissioning of HMAS Encounter ?
Yes, I was there. See post #2104. Went very well in a sunny break between continuous showers, CN and A/COMAUSLFLT officiated. One poor Midshipman did a face plant on the asphalt and ended up with a nasty abrasion on her nose. Nice arvo chog afterwards with a good commissioning cake, and then a very pleasant celebratory dinner in the evening. Now for Huon?
Fair enough, makes sense to me.
Could a Virginia potentially fire off 16 in a salvo if needed - 12 from the VLS, 4 from the torpedo tubes? Or is it one or the other ie Virginias can only launch missiles from VLS?
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
From one thing I read (Naval Technology) then yes, a 16-missile salvo is possible. However, when I went looking elsewhere, the numbers do not seem to add up, at least with what I have been able to confirm. Aside from the one thing on Naval Technology, nowhere else have I seen an option for a Virginia-class Tomahawk salvo of 16, since no source (including Naval Technology) indicates that any Tomahawk UGM-109 carriage in the Virginia-class SSN torpedoe room. All sources I have seen reference the Virginia-class sub's torpedoe room having Mk 48 ADCAP HWT's and/or UGM-84 Harpoon AShM.
Also, the number of missiles is expected to change for latter production of the Virginia-class SSN, starting with SSN 803 (2nd vessel of Block V configuration) which replaces the 12 Tomahawk VLS tubes with Virginia Payload Module tubes. Whilst there are to be fewer VPM tubes, (four per module IIRC) each VPM tube can be loaded with seven Tomahawk missiles, or other potential loadout options in the future.
In terms of future procurement, it appears that the USN's Block V procurement covers orders placed through until at least 2023 (SSN 811) with SSN 805 having begun construction in July 2021, as of October 2021. Further, there are plans for at least two additional Blocks, VI & VII, of the Virginia-class SSN. This strongly suggests to me that versions of the USN's Virginia-class SSN will be in service for decades to come.
While I am not advocating for the RAN to make a particular or specific selection (yet) for a RAN SSN, if the USN appears likely to continue having a specific Block keep entering service for at least another decade, and then additional follow-on Block construction for another decade or more after that, that would help alleviate concerns about whether a specific design will be relevant for service in the following decades. An SSN entering USN service circa ~2033 (est. last of Block V construction) I would expect to remain in planned service until at least the mid-2050's. For USN SSN's which are planned for service starting in ~2042, they will most likely have a planned end of service life some time out in the late 2060's or early/mid-2070's.
WaveWalker
Member
To answer your questions for him…
1/ He said “It seems to me”, therefore it’s his opinion
2/ His basis is outlined in the text above “It seems to me”
3/ sources = not relevant. It’s his opinion.
Whether it's opinion or not he must have formed it on some basis of fact. It's that basis of fact for which we require the sources. We work from informed opinion not uniformed opinion because that's the difference between good quality discussion and rubbish. If in doubt read the rules. If it's still unclear PM one of the Moderators.
@Morgo is generally willing to learn and that's always good in a poster. I learn on here most days because something new is always posted and I will follow it up as a rule, so I have all these papers and what not on hard drives that I am working my way through.