Philippine Navy Discussion and Updates

Zhaow

New Member
The last 1 year or so PN have been negotiating in acquiring the Maestrale/Soldati class of the Italian Navy. Italy plans to retire 7 frigates the next 5 years. If that happens the planned acquisition of 2-3 italian frigates could serve as backbone of the Philippine navy with the WHEC Hamiltons they have been getting from the USCG.
If they get the Maestrale class frigate from Italy, I can see that being their backbone of the Philippine navy and center their navy around it. Their Hamiltons would be their light frigate or OPV and if were to get the Reliance and Famous cutters from the US Coast Guard, it would be their Corvette fleet as well.

As for the Soldati/Lupo class frigate, I think for the Philippine navy, it would be their light frigate or Corvette
 

Acadiana Pirate

New Member
If they get the Maestrale class frigate from Italy, I can see that being their backbone of the Philippine navy and center their navy around it. Their Hamiltons would be their light frigate or OPV and if were to get the Reliance and Famous cutters from the US Coast Guard, it would be their Corvette fleet as well.

As for the Soldati/Lupo class frigate, I think for the Philippine navy, it would be their light frigate or Corvette
True, Zhaow. I think that is the minimum route they should go. PN's goal is to have 6 frigates serving as AAW, 12 corvettes for ASW and 18 OPV's for EEZ patrol. But things are changing so fast and China is doubling is budget the next 10 years so Philippines has to tweek its minimum defense posture and capability also.
Italy is also unloading all eight Minerva class which are on the average about 20 years only so I hope they will package these fine ships with what they are selling the Philippines. Spain has offered the Santa Maria's OHP and Australia will start decommissioning the Adelaide-OHP as the Hobart's start arriving. I would prefer getting those with the Maestrales to really add some punch in PN's frigate ships and put the Hamilton's in the Philippine Coast Guard to tackle those CMS (China Maritime Service) ships plying the West Philippine Sea EEZ rampantly.
 

Zhaow

New Member
True, Zhaow. I think that is the minimum route they should go. PN's goal is to have 6 frigates serving as AAW, 12 corvettes for ASW and 18 OPV's for EEZ patrol. But things are changing so fast and China is doubling is budget the next 10 years so Philippines has to tweek its minimum defense posture and capability also.
Italy is also unloading all eight Minerva class which are on the average about 20 years only so I hope they will package these fine ships with what they are selling the Philippines. Spain has offered the Santa Maria's OHP and Australia will start decommissioning the Adelaide-OHP as the Hobart's start arriving. I would prefer getting those with the Maestrales to really add some punch in PN's frigate ships and put the Hamilton's in the Philippine Coast Guard to tackle those CMS (China Maritime Service) ships plying the West Philippine Sea EEZ rampantly.
If the Philippines can get the Maestrale class frigate it would be their Multi Role frigate that dose ASW, ASUW and AAW. Their Hamilton, would be their ASW frigate, provided they arm her correctly. It provide presence and secondary ASW for the Maestrale class frigate. Their Soldati/Lupo class frigate would be like a patrol Frigate/ OPV. If they get the US Coast Guard's Reliance and Famous cutter class, they provide Corvette duty as well. I really think if they get the Maestrale class frigate, It would give them the multi role capability
 

Acadiana Pirate

New Member
If the Philippines can get the Maestrale class frigate it would be their Multi Role frigate that dose ASW, ASUW and AAW. Their Hamilton, would be their ASW frigate, provided they arm her correctly. It provide presence and secondary ASW for the Maestrale class frigate. Their Soldati/Lupo class frigate would be like a patrol Frigate/ OPV. If they get the US Coast Guard's Reliance and Famous cutter class, they provide Corvette duty as well. I really think if they get the Maestrale class frigate, It would give them the multi role capability
Well, those WMECs are pretty darn good also. I hope PN can get a few of those to do all the dirty work (Patrolling). They are big enough to patrol PH EEZ which could get pretty rough. And that endurance is unmatched, 10,000 miles.
 

GR!FF!N

New Member
True, Zhaow. I think that is the minimum route they should go. PN's goal is to have 6 frigates serving as AAW, 12 corvettes for ASW and 18 OPV's for EEZ patrol. But things are changing so fast and China is doubling is budget the next 10 years so Philippines has to tweek its minimum defense posture and capability also.
Italy is also unloading all eight Minerva class which are on the average about 20 years only so I hope they will package these fine ships with what they are selling the Philippines. Spain has offered the Santa Maria's OHP and Australia will start decommissioning the Adelaide-OHP as the Hobart's start arriving. I would prefer getting those with the Maestrales to really add some punch in PN's frigate ships and put the Hamilton's in the Philippine Coast Guard to tackle those CMS (China Maritime Service) ships plying the West Philippine Sea EEZ rampantly.
I don't think current PN defence budget supports this plan as 6 frigates and 12 corvettes will draw out huge amount fund from PN.I think induction of 5-6 Corvettes and moderate number of missile boats and Offshore Patrol Vessels will be a good plan for PN now..It'll be an effective deterrence against China and Vietnam.
 

Acadiana Pirate

New Member
I don't think current PN defence budget supports this plan as 6 frigates and 12 corvettes will draw out huge amount fund from PN.I think induction of 5-6 Corvettes and moderate number of missile boats and Offshore Patrol Vessels will be a good plan for PN now..It'll be an effective deterrence against China and Vietnam.
The Philippines is spending and initial $1.8 billion to jump start it's massive modernization program. They are allotting 500 billion peso (equivalent to $12 billion) over the next 5 years. Remember it only cost them less than $15 each ex-Hamilton which they already have one and another one is arriving and a planned acquisition of the third is being planned. And the Soldati Class frigate they are negotiating with Italy should not cost more than $20m considering Peru got the Lupo-class a few years back for $15m each and another 10m were spent to put it in tip-top shape for a total of only 25m each. A bargain considering they were still fairly new because they were repossessions from Iraq's orders Italy is planning to get rid of the Maestrale class Frigates (5) and a couple of the shorter Soldati class the next 5 years.
See this article

Peru (Market Overview))

The Philippine Armed forces has been neglected the past 4 administrations. President Aquino is now determined to establish a credible defense posture especially now that the economy is growing and graft and corruption are being cleaned up and minimized.
Here is an article on the spending spree.

Military spending spree in the Philippines - World News Report

These things will be validated after his State of the Union address which will happen the next few days wherein he will start announcing all the awarding of contracts to various establishments and its procurement of armaments.
 

ManilaBoy

Banned Member
Do you have any credible links or articles to support your last statements above that Mr. Aquino will make an announcement on the military contracts that has been awarded this coming monday during his State of the Nation Address , otherwise please refrain from making such a statement ... Returning to the PN discussions, a Singapore based public policy expert said the PN made a mistake when it sent it's biggest warship to Scarborough Shoal last April resulting in a long standoff with China ...


PH's 1st 'mistake' in Scarborough

[Mod edit: Thread closed, pending Mod discussion.

One week ago, the Mod Team asked members of this thread to pause before posting. Thereafter, to separate fact from fiction and opinion from fact. You clearly do not want to participate meaningfully in this thread (which should be a discussion on what capabilities the Philippine Navy has or should acquire in this or the next procurement cycle).

You also have the habit of converting every discussion thread on your country's armed forces into news ribbons. You already have a South China Sea News and Discussion thread and yet you post this here. It's just irritating that you want to convert every thread you post in, into news ribbons. It is clear to the Mod team that you are not even trying pretend to discuss the thread topics any more.

Previously, you were banned for posting wrong/false information and thereafter you were further banned for failing to follow the rules. Another off-topic post by you or the violation of any rule in any thread post in, you will face further and more severe administrative sanctions. ]
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
Maestrale set for Philippine Navy

From ABS-CBN : Philippine Navy buying 2 Italian warships | ABS-CBN News

MANILA, Philippines - Two Italian warships are set to strengthen the Philippines' maritime defense capabilities, Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said Thursday.

Gazmin said the Philippine Navy is buying the P11.7-billion Maestrale-class frigates , which have anti-submarine and anti-aircraft weaponry.

The move is part of the Armed Forces' modernization program, the defense chief said at a forum in Camp Aguinaldo.

"These frigates are warships. These have anti-air, sub-surface, they have anti-submarine (capabilities). What we are getting are really meant for war," Gazmin said.

The frigates, which were commissioned in the 1980s, are being used by the Italian Navy.

He said the Navy is waiting for the approval of contract that is expected to be signed in January 2013.

The ships will then be delivered by November after they are refurbished.
This seems official enough, since this quote Philippine Defense Secretary. 2 Maestrale, will give the Phil-Navy the biggest punch they ever have. Whether PN will get the current armament composition of Maestrale will remain to be seen. So does the amount of upgrade/recondition being taken.

The age of those Maestrale when taken by PN will be the simmilar with the age of Van Speijk when taken by TNI-AL, and so far the Van Speijk still soldier-on. How long PN can able to maintain those Maestrale on good conditions, I believe will also much depend on Philippine domestic shipyard capabilities.

For one thing though Otomat-Teseo SSM and Aspide SAM will 'leap' the capabilities of PN. If the deal also included AB-212 ASW Helo, with Philippine experience of Bell 212 inventories, I believe they can manage to maintain AB-212 quite smoothly.

Well congrats for PN, this can be more significant addition then Hamillton cutter.
 

niftyDolphine

New Member
Philippines to buy 2 missile warships from Italy

this is what the PN is waiting for! I hope it is still capable despite being commissioned since 1982 (both ships?)

this Php11.7B (or USD275M) is a good use of the USD1.8B modernization program

i just hope the crews will be able to handle these new radars, missiles, torpedoes, etc because this is totally different from what we currently have.
 

T.C.P da Devil

New Member
From ABS-CBN : Philippine Navy buying 2 Italian warships | ABS-CBN News



This seems official enough, since this quote Philippine Defense Secretary. 2 Maestrale, will give the Phil-Navy the biggest punch they ever have. Whether PN will get the current armament composition of Maestrale will remain to be seen. So does the amount of upgrade/recondition being taken.

The age of those Maestrale when taken by PN will be the simmilar with the age of Van Speijk when taken by TNI-AL, and so far the Van Speijk still soldier-on. How long PN can able to maintain those Maestrale on good conditions, I believe will also much depend on Philippine domestic shipyard capabilities.

For one thing though Otomat-Teseo SSM and Aspide SAM will 'leap' the capabilities of PN. If the deal also included AB-212 ASW Helo, with Philippine experience of Bell 212 inventories, I believe they can manage to maintain AB-212 quite smoothly.

Well congrats for PN, this can be more significant addition then Hamillton cutter.
We were close to getting these frigates to, but a change in govt led to collapse of the deal.

Any ways the PN will love this ship, the Ototmat SSms are great and will give the PN a good punch!
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
PN Procured Maestralle with The Fullest Capability

From Balita online: 2 Italian frigates to sail in with technical support — DND (Feature) : balita.ph

Philippine's Defense Ministry claim they will get 2 Italian Maestralle with full capabilities of the current Weapon and Sensors just like when the Ships operated with Italian Navy. The packages will included upgrade the weapons and electronic packages to their 'optimal' conditions.
Also the Italian will guarantee the flow of spare parts and maintenance support.

MANILA, Aug. 3 — They will not only be sailing into Philippine waters with their weapons, sensors and other equipment intact.

A Defense official said Italy's "Maestrale" class frigates eyed by the government to bolster its Navy will also sail in with technical support which will allow the prospective crew to use the ship to its fullest potential.

DND Undersecretary Fernando Manalo said this is one of the reasons the "Maestrale" is such an attractive proposition.

Technical support means the Italians would train PN personnel in the proper use of the frigates' systems and maintenance.

Acquisition of the ships is expected to cost the Philippine government P 11.7 billion.

Aside from this, the Italian Navy also guaranteed to supply its Filipino counterpart with spares which the ships need for dockyard maintenance.

"It means that we don't have to scrounge around for parts. We can call them about the items we need and they will supply them to us. It means greater availability for our 'Maestrale' for maritime missions," Manalo stressed in Filipino.
So far this only confirm that the PN will get the whole Maestralle packages in term of Weapons and Electronics, but no mentioned of whether PN will get AB 212 ASW Helo.
If not mistaken, the inclusion of Otomat Taseo in the Maestralle deal will also mean the first SSM operating by PN vessels.

In short, there are quite a few 'first' for PN if the Maestralle do really procured by PN. It will be a long learning curve program and adjustment for PN. But they have to begin now, if they want to become an effective Navy for current days standard. Seems what the Italian provided on the Mastralle Packages can 'fasten' the learning curve.
 

colay

New Member
The Maestrale deal looks to be well thought out and good value for money for the PN. The ships themselves provide a level of capabilities previously only dreamed of and the handholding and post-sale support arrangement with the Italians will help ensure we get the best use from these assets. Now it's up to the Philippine Government to commit to their long-term sustainment and operation.
 

colay

New Member
So far this only confirm that the PN will get the whole Maestralle packages in term of Weapons and Electronics, but no mentioned of whether PN will get AB 212 ASW Helo. .
The AB-212s really complement and enhance the overall effectiveness of the Maestrales in it's different roles so I'm hoping they are included. It would save a lot of time and expense of acquiring an alternative helo and integrating it with the ships' systems.
 

fretburner

Banned Member
How about navalized Sokols? There's already 8 in order with 4, IIRC, delivered already. I think there's a proposed ASW version of these Sokols. Will probably end up being more expensive than these AB 212 ASW Helos.
 

colay

New Member
I've read that the Italian Navy FREMMs will be deploying NH-90s and EH-101 helos so I'm hopeful that the AB-212s will be acquired along with the 2 Maestrales as the Italians would appear to be upgrading to newer aircraft. This would spare the PN a significant systems integration undertaking.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
just asking are the Australians still trying to sell the seasprites that didn't enter service,would they not be worth a look at
According to last month's Air forces Monthly, Kaman has sought U.S. government approval to sell these to the Royal New Zealand Navy [RNZN].
 

fretburner

Banned Member
So... There's going to be a Navalized W-3, and it's going to be called the Gluszec

Too bad we won't know when this is going to be available...

"It is too early to define fixed dates for first flight and a cost for the programme, but the new helicopter will be a cost-effective solution for many customers all over the world."

If the PN doesn't get those AB-212's along with the Maestrale's, my vote will go for these helos.
 

fretburner

Banned Member
So... The PN is supposed to arm the Hamilton-class cutters: Philippine Navy to arm US-acquired ships

"...the Gregorio del Pilar’s weapons system would be upgraded with Harpoon antiship missiles—described as a modern, all-weather, over-the-horizon defense system. "

I wonder how costly this will be. For sure the Harpoon needs a radar/fire control to support it.
 
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