Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions
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mysterious
New Member
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
I remember reading that they were to go on from first week of September to the last week of September. So from that point of view, the earthquake factor is out of the question. I guess 'secrecy' as always is being maintained over this issue? Surely some pics wouldn't have hurt anyone.
I remember reading that they were to go on from first week of September to the last week of September. So from that point of view, the earthquake factor is out of the question. I guess 'secrecy' as always is being maintained over this issue? Surely some pics wouldn't have hurt anyone.
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
I am an Aerospace engineering student. There I might be able to answer ur question.
The intakes as u know are to provide air to the engine. To increase the efficiency of the engines the air needs to be slowed down as much as possible. At supersonic speeds normal and obliqued shock waves are produced. The velocity of the airflow reduces behind these shockwaves.
The new design helps in creating two shockwaves. This helps reduce the airflow velocity and thus increasing engine efficiency.
I hope that I answered your question. I explained as simply as I could but I u don't understand or wanna know more just ask.
Take care.
Long Live Pakistan
Red aRRow said:
I am an Aerospace engineering student. There I might be able to answer ur question.
The intakes as u know are to provide air to the engine. To increase the efficiency of the engines the air needs to be slowed down as much as possible. At supersonic speeds normal and obliqued shock waves are produced. The velocity of the airflow reduces behind these shockwaves.
The new design helps in creating two shockwaves. This helps reduce the airflow velocity and thus increasing engine efficiency.
I hope that I answered your question. I explained as simply as I could but I u don't understand or wanna know more just ask.
Take care.
Long Live Pakistan
mysterious
New Member
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
Good explanation my friend. Simple and just enough to let one know what its all about.
Good explanation my friend. Simple and just enough to let one know what its all about.
hovercraft
New Member
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
1 - radar cross section is only reduced by radar absorbing paints which contains graphite particales the reduces the radar waves and makes the surface invisible examles are F-22, F-35 and B-2.
2 - second method to reduce radar cross section is use of composite materials like carbon fibre and glass fibre in whole external body of the plane example is swidish gripen fighter and maybe french rafale too
3 - third is to make a special design that reflects the radar waves on safe positions or angles example is F-117 night hawk
1 - radar cross section is only reduced by radar absorbing paints which contains graphite particales the reduces the radar waves and makes the surface invisible examles are F-22, F-35 and B-2.
2 - second method to reduce radar cross section is use of composite materials like carbon fibre and glass fibre in whole external body of the plane example is swidish gripen fighter and maybe french rafale too
3 - third is to make a special design that reflects the radar waves on safe positions or angles example is F-117 night hawk
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
No. Radar absorbing material is typically less than 20% of the process required to reduce RCS. You also cannot stick RAM everywhere like body filler - thats not the way it works.
NO! The fundamental issue is initial design. That means signal deflection issues at various aspects - composites do not have to cover the "whole external body of the plane". Your examples are incorrect because both Gripen and Rafale are not complete composite bodies.
This is the highest priority. get the basic design wrong and all the RAM in the world won't make it stealthy.
and stealth does not mean invisibility. it refers to lower observability within a preferred contact range.
Apart from which, what has any of this got to do with Pakistani Air Force News and Discussions???
hovercraft said:
No. Radar absorbing material is typically less than 20% of the process required to reduce RCS. You also cannot stick RAM everywhere like body filler - thats not the way it works.
hovercraft said:
NO! The fundamental issue is initial design. That means signal deflection issues at various aspects - composites do not have to cover the "whole external body of the plane". Your examples are incorrect because both Gripen and Rafale are not complete composite bodies.
hovercraft said:
This is the highest priority. get the basic design wrong and all the RAM in the world won't make it stealthy.
and stealth does not mean invisibility. it refers to lower observability within a preferred contact range.
Apart from which, what has any of this got to do with Pakistani Air Force News and Discussions???
mysterious
New Member
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
Thats what I am trying to figure out as well. Where on earth did 'stealth' creep in from when simply, all that was being discussed (in relation to the PAF) was the air intakes on the Jf-17.
Thats what I am trying to figure out as well. Where on earth did 'stealth' creep in from when simply, all that was being discussed (in relation to the PAF) was the air intakes on the Jf-17.
Elite-Pilot
Banned Member
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
Well guys, from the recent news about countries purchasing new fighter jets/ bombers / Helicopters , the power is very imbalanced in Pakistans case. Until the F-16's start arriving the PAF will stay in a 5:1 margin and however when they do arrive, the power will then be 3-4:5. Pakistan should be looking deeply into purchasing defence equipment. Ok, so even if we do buy the planes, we still need Air Defence/Surface-Air Missile systems. Pakistan relys on ANZA series for taking out aircraft but that not enough because it has limited range and nowadays enemies could shoot Air to surface missiles from 50 km away!
As of now things are getting very tough and if Pakistan doesnt start acting, it WILL be in trouble. The JF-17 should start their arrival in this year and start replacing the F-7 (ageing fleet) . Even if we do attempt to get rid of them, what countries would be interested in them? Iran, Bangladesh, African countries? In addition to that i wouold like to know whats up with the PAF's mind. They have evaluated the Rafale, set eyes on Euro fighter but yet still didnt make their mind...so what exactly are we doing?
Chinese equipmetn seems to be pretty effective and low on cost. the international market is willing to provide military hardware.
4th generation fighter jets in small numbers could fulfill our requirments but enable us to push our air force to the next level. French aircraft and hardware is very expensive which forces us to purchase other equipment. In addition to that, we can build relations with other countries and purcahse different things for our needs. However, all of this will consist of problems and its the way of life, Pakistan should be up for the challenge.
Well guys, from the recent news about countries purchasing new fighter jets/ bombers / Helicopters , the power is very imbalanced in Pakistans case. Until the F-16's start arriving the PAF will stay in a 5:1 margin and however when they do arrive, the power will then be 3-4:5. Pakistan should be looking deeply into purchasing defence equipment. Ok, so even if we do buy the planes, we still need Air Defence/Surface-Air Missile systems. Pakistan relys on ANZA series for taking out aircraft but that not enough because it has limited range and nowadays enemies could shoot Air to surface missiles from 50 km away!
As of now things are getting very tough and if Pakistan doesnt start acting, it WILL be in trouble. The JF-17 should start their arrival in this year and start replacing the F-7 (ageing fleet) . Even if we do attempt to get rid of them, what countries would be interested in them? Iran, Bangladesh, African countries? In addition to that i wouold like to know whats up with the PAF's mind. They have evaluated the Rafale, set eyes on Euro fighter but yet still didnt make their mind...so what exactly are we doing?
Chinese equipmetn seems to be pretty effective and low on cost. the international market is willing to provide military hardware.
4th generation fighter jets in small numbers could fulfill our requirments but enable us to push our air force to the next level. French aircraft and hardware is very expensive which forces us to purchase other equipment. In addition to that, we can build relations with other countries and purcahse different things for our needs. However, all of this will consist of problems and its the way of life, Pakistan should be up for the challenge.
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
There is news that there may be more F-16s in the EDA pipeline for Pakistan. Under the Excess Defense Articles Program, Pakistan will receive the jets on a "AS Is" basis free of cost, but will have to pay for upgrades. There may be 10 more in the pipeline today according to a Jane's report in August last year.
There is news that there may be more F-16s in the EDA pipeline for Pakistan. Under the Excess Defense Articles Program, Pakistan will receive the jets on a "AS Is" basis free of cost, but will have to pay for upgrades. There may be 10 more in the pipeline today according to a Jane's report in August last year.
mysterious
New Member
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
Doesn't matter how many in the 'pipeline' until we actually draw them out of that pipeline and put them on the ground, fully upgraded and ready to go. I must say I am losing patience with PAF's acquisition strategy. They're sitting on their laurels while all around them, potential rival forces are busy in their shopping sprees!
As Elite pointed out, its not just acquisition of more fighter jets that is required by the situation but long-range SAMs are a MUST for the defence of the Pakistani AirSpace. PAF currently operates OBSELETE SAMs which won't even stand half a chance against an aggressor threat. Its about time PAF acted instead of boasting that Pakistani air-defence is impregnable!
Doesn't matter how many in the 'pipeline' until we actually draw them out of that pipeline and put them on the ground, fully upgraded and ready to go. I must say I am losing patience with PAF's acquisition strategy. They're sitting on their laurels while all around them, potential rival forces are busy in their shopping sprees!
As Elite pointed out, its not just acquisition of more fighter jets that is required by the situation but long-range SAMs are a MUST for the defence of the Pakistani AirSpace. PAF currently operates OBSELETE SAMs which won't even stand half a chance against an aggressor threat. Its about time PAF acted instead of boasting that Pakistani air-defence is impregnable!
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
SAMS are a important issue but PAF could deal with that at a latter stage when the bloddy jets arrive. (when ever that is). anyway new article.
http://www.dawn.com/2006/01/21/top9.htm
‘New and used F-16s may be bought’
KARACHI, Jan 20: The Pakistan Air Force is considering buying a mix of new and used F-16 fighter jets, says Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat.
The PAF chief was addressing members of the English-speaking Union of Pakistan (EUP) at a local hotel.
Highlighting the PAF’s high deterrence value, he said Pakistan was fully capable of defending itself and he hoped there would be no war.
He said that maintaining a strong and credible defence was expensive, and pointed out that the PAF needed hardware worth $3-4 billion to maintain a minimum deterrence capability.
He said that various versions of F-16s were available to PAF from the United States. “We are also considering to buy used F-16s from elsewhere. However, we will prefer a mix of new and old F-16s fighter planes for the PAF,†he added.
He said the PAF was focusing on strengthening its reconnaissance and surveillance capability, strike power, detection of enemy aircraft, platform to combat and weapons for defence.
The PAF chief reminded that India had withdrawn its forces from the border with Pakistan after nine months as western countries issued travel advisories asking their citizens not to travel to India in 2002.—PPI
mysterious said:
SAMS are a important issue but PAF could deal with that at a latter stage when the bloddy jets arrive. (when ever that is). anyway new article.
http://www.dawn.com/2006/01/21/top9.htm
‘New and used F-16s may be bought’
KARACHI, Jan 20: The Pakistan Air Force is considering buying a mix of new and used F-16 fighter jets, says Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat.
The PAF chief was addressing members of the English-speaking Union of Pakistan (EUP) at a local hotel.
Highlighting the PAF’s high deterrence value, he said Pakistan was fully capable of defending itself and he hoped there would be no war.
He said that maintaining a strong and credible defence was expensive, and pointed out that the PAF needed hardware worth $3-4 billion to maintain a minimum deterrence capability.
He said that various versions of F-16s were available to PAF from the United States. “We are also considering to buy used F-16s from elsewhere. However, we will prefer a mix of new and old F-16s fighter planes for the PAF,†he added.
He said the PAF was focusing on strengthening its reconnaissance and surveillance capability, strike power, detection of enemy aircraft, platform to combat and weapons for defence.
The PAF chief reminded that India had withdrawn its forces from the border with Pakistan after nine months as western countries issued travel advisories asking their citizens not to travel to India in 2002.—PPI
Elite-Pilot
Banned Member
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
Firstly I'd say its good that Air Marshal Kaleem Saadat is looking towards radars and hopefully. Personally if there is one thing I must say is that Pakistan relys VERY HEAVILY on its own hardware. Yes, i know thats sort of good but its really not since you cant get any new SAM's without Pakistan looking deeply into the ANZA. I would really like to see Pakistan create its own SAM's that are comparable to the ones in the international market. Futher to this is the JF-17, again, i know its a Sino/Pak aircraft and is the first fighter jet Pakistan is going to manufacture but Pakistan is way to devoted to it.
For the reconnaissance part of his words, i must say Pakistan's role in this section is handled quite right since we have 13 mirages doing this job for us. And i think they are capable enough to get their job done. However Pakistan should get a more reliable plane for this issue.
Surveillance section, I think Pakistan is in the right place since we have just inducted 8 P3-C orions in addition to the 2 already with our Air Force. The erieyes should also fall under this category so i think we are in safe hands for this category aswell.
Strike Power, The A-5's should definatley be sold and phased out since there Air-frame is just from the early days. A more self-reliant Air caraft for this job would be the JH-7 (FBC-1) it has an extremely large pay load and seems to have more Air to Air capabilities then the A-5!
Firstly I'd say its good that Air Marshal Kaleem Saadat is looking towards radars and hopefully. Personally if there is one thing I must say is that Pakistan relys VERY HEAVILY on its own hardware. Yes, i know thats sort of good but its really not since you cant get any new SAM's without Pakistan looking deeply into the ANZA. I would really like to see Pakistan create its own SAM's that are comparable to the ones in the international market. Futher to this is the JF-17, again, i know its a Sino/Pak aircraft and is the first fighter jet Pakistan is going to manufacture but Pakistan is way to devoted to it.
For the reconnaissance part of his words, i must say Pakistan's role in this section is handled quite right since we have 13 mirages doing this job for us. And i think they are capable enough to get their job done. However Pakistan should get a more reliable plane for this issue.
Surveillance section, I think Pakistan is in the right place since we have just inducted 8 P3-C orions in addition to the 2 already with our Air Force. The erieyes should also fall under this category so i think we are in safe hands for this category aswell.
Strike Power, The A-5's should definatley be sold and phased out since there Air-frame is just from the early days. A more self-reliant Air caraft for this job would be the JH-7 (FBC-1) it has an extremely large pay load and seems to have more Air to Air capabilities then the A-5!
Elite-Pilot
Banned Member
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
4 billion? the original price was 3 billion has Pakistan asked for something more? maybe more missiles? Well atleast its back on track, thats more than what i could ask for.
4 billion? the original price was 3 billion has Pakistan asked for something more? maybe more missiles? Well atleast its back on track, thats more than what i could ask for.
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
Different news agencie have different & various sources & when too many people get one report & all of them get to tell it than the confusion starts. Any wya my own guess is that deal is no less than of $4 billion. Couple of months back US officials said Pakistan had planned to buy 75 NEW & only 11 OLD F-16s. 75 new f-16s cant be less than $4 Billion.
Elite-Pilot said:
Different news agencie have different & various sources & when too many people get one report & all of them get to tell it than the confusion starts. Any wya my own guess is that deal is no less than of $4 billion. Couple of months back US officials said Pakistan had planned to buy 75 NEW & only 11 OLD F-16s. 75 new f-16s cant be less than $4 Billion.
Elite-Pilot
Banned Member
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
I dont know man, Block 52+ is a gamble. Pakistan is still looking towards choosing a new 4th generation fighter. The F-16 block 52+ has a ability slightly higher than the original 52 model and cost about 5 million more. Personally i want to see a fighter like Rafale in the PAF's inventory. However, Rafale is about 80 million USD which makes it a costly price and the fact that it has one of the best technologies aboard a plane make a wonderful option. 40-45 Rafales can serve extremely well, infact i am so confident in its abilities that i'll say it can shoot down TWO Su-30MKI's in an engagement.
This is what i dont get, alot of people assume the United States will deliver all 75 F-16's but how do we know FOR SURE that we will recieve them all? i dont wanna hear things like "um....because we are helping them with the War on Terror" i want to listen to something more interesting. Like what are the chances of Pakistan to recieve all those F-16's?
I dont know man, Block 52+ is a gamble. Pakistan is still looking towards choosing a new 4th generation fighter. The F-16 block 52+ has a ability slightly higher than the original 52 model and cost about 5 million more. Personally i want to see a fighter like Rafale in the PAF's inventory. However, Rafale is about 80 million USD which makes it a costly price and the fact that it has one of the best technologies aboard a plane make a wonderful option. 40-45 Rafales can serve extremely well, infact i am so confident in its abilities that i'll say it can shoot down TWO Su-30MKI's in an engagement.
This is what i dont get, alot of people assume the United States will deliver all 75 F-16's but how do we know FOR SURE that we will recieve them all? i dont wanna hear things like "um....because we are helping them with the War on Terror" i want to listen to something more interesting. Like what are the chances of Pakistan to recieve all those F-16's?
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
Also note the Chinese defense industry is advancing rapidly; although not close to the West's capability, Chinese weapons do provide a pretty good bang for the buck these days and in the future. If Pakistan were to entirely rely on Chinese weapons what use are military embargoes on it during war? By not having some sort of hand in the Pakistan Military, the U.S loses the chance to stop it during tension with its new lover India.
Keeping Pakistan in check has more to do with China; U.S wants to arm India against China, but if Pakistan were to come into the equation against India and totally immune to U.S and Western embargoes...get the point? They want to keep Pakistan in check, so supplying those F-16s is more of U.S interest than Pakistani.
Although you'd wonder what will Pakistan do when the F-16s need to be replaced; by then China would surely have something like JXX, so you can guess what the U.S will have to do to yet again keep Pakistan in check.
This post warrants another topic I think; I don't mind if the mods delete it.
Embargoing Pakistan did not achieve anything except more complications. Did stopping F-16s stop Pakistan from having nuclear weaponry? Did stopping F-16s stop Pakistan from starting the JF-17 project? At the loss of 70 odd F-16s valued less than 2bn USD Pakistan gained power worth a lot more (actually kind of priceless and much longer-term).
Also note the Chinese defense industry is advancing rapidly; although not close to the West's capability, Chinese weapons do provide a pretty good bang for the buck these days and in the future. If Pakistan were to entirely rely on Chinese weapons what use are military embargoes on it during war? By not having some sort of hand in the Pakistan Military, the U.S loses the chance to stop it during tension with its new lover India.
Keeping Pakistan in check has more to do with China; U.S wants to arm India against China, but if Pakistan were to come into the equation against India and totally immune to U.S and Western embargoes...get the point? They want to keep Pakistan in check, so supplying those F-16s is more of U.S interest than Pakistani.
Although you'd wonder what will Pakistan do when the F-16s need to be replaced; by then China would surely have something like JXX, so you can guess what the U.S will have to do to yet again keep Pakistan in check.
This post warrants another topic I think; I don't mind if the mods delete it.
Elite-Pilot
Banned Member
I agree with you Bilal, and i understand exactly what you are trying to say. America offers India F-18 E/F & F-16 Block-70 while they are just sitting down and drinking tea and we deployed around a 10,000 troops along the Afghan border, making fences and holding back refugees. It was the Indian Air Force that started this Arms race in South Asia, it was India which yet till today wants to dominate south Asia regardless of keeping defence balance.
Bilal, the PAF hasn't seen anything advanced in its arsenal for A LONG time. It's time for a change. Pakistan definately needs a new fighter plane platform. I managed to dig up some stuff on the Rafale, turns out PAF is just not in favor of it but rather the Euro-fighter would be more suitable for us. There are only a few Air crafts pakistan is actually looking towards.
J-10 (which i think we should lay off and wait to mature)
Euro-fighter (is just perfect for our new platform)
Rafale (failed to meet complete our standard):
Besides these air crafts there is just nothing there for the PAF.
Bilal, the PAF hasn't seen anything advanced in its arsenal for A LONG time. It's time for a change. Pakistan definately needs a new fighter plane platform. I managed to dig up some stuff on the Rafale, turns out PAF is just not in favor of it but rather the Euro-fighter would be more suitable for us. There are only a few Air crafts pakistan is actually looking towards.
J-10 (which i think we should lay off and wait to mature)
Euro-fighter (is just perfect for our new platform)
Rafale (failed to meet complete our standard):
Besides these air crafts there is just nothing there for the PAF.
ajaybhutani
New Member
1. i dont see it as a good idea to blame IAF for bad condition of PAF.. india is a much bigger economy and so more military spending in imminent.Elite-Pilot said:
2. since you have already called rafale failed to compete ur standard while EF can .. can u please elaborate on the facts that led to ur judgement.. ?.
3. i believed that pakistan currently is looking forward to f16 its getting and JF17.. Does PAF have nough money to even procure both these planes together . leave aside something else.. ??i dont think there are nough funds to purchase any new plane except JF17 and F16 for the next 5-6 years.. and by that time J10..
mysterious
New Member
Rather than dragging on the same discussion which is dead at the moment due to lack of any latest developments; it would be wise to actually read some of the earlier pages in this thread.
There is already extensive discussion within those pages answering most of your questions about funds, prospective aircraft for PAF, etc.
There is already extensive discussion within those pages answering most of your questions about funds, prospective aircraft for PAF, etc.
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