Osama Bin Laden dead

webmaster

Troll Hunter
Staff member
Al Qaeda has been acting as part of Pakistan’s tribal forces against India in Afghanistan. They also have not been very active in Pakistan. It is another case similar to ‘good Taliban’ that fight in Afghanistan that the Pakistani Army has avoided attacking, and ‘bad Taliban’ that fight against the Pakistani government.

OBL’s safety may have been part of the price for al Qaeda keeping quiet in Pakistan.

ISI has severed their connections to the ‘bad Taliban’ that attack Pakistani target. They seem more interested in restricting US attacks against the ‘good Taliban’ bases and training areas inside Pakistan. They also seem a lot more effective at hunting down and arresting moderate Taliban leaders that show any inclination for negotiating an end to the conflict if Pakistan does not have a seat at the table, and possibly a veto, than the hard core fight to the end types.

Baby sit OBL, no. But they probably did not pass on information about this location either. This may also be why they are so angry about the US intelligence operations inside Pakistan, the US found him and appeared to have to have good enough surveillance that they could not get him out in time, so they had to go along or have the truth come out. Al Qaeda is already threatening retaliation against Pakistan.

The other al Qaeda members arrested mostly fall into 3 groups, those who attacked Pakistani interests, low ranking members to make ISI look like it was doing something, and ones that the US had too well tracked to help escape.

Like any country and intelligence agency Pakistan and the ISI have their own agendas, which are different from the US agenda. Keeping the pot boiling in Afghanistan until it was recognized as part of Pakistan’s hinterland and strategic depth and that Indian influence had to be kept out is part of that difference. As I said previously, there was probably some kind of quid pro quo for allowing this operation to go forward at this time.
As I said earlier, the only absolute TRUTH is that we don't know the truth.

Those who claim ISI did pass information (which is likely, considering its highly improbable that an operation of this scale would take place without CONCRETE on the ground recon and intelligence MONTHS before and leading up to the execution) but there are those who say ISI did not pass on the information - both cannot prove for SURE that their claim is the TRUTH.

Lets get the terminology right as well, there are AFGHAN Taliban and then there are TTP goons. TTP did NOT exist before 2006, it came into existence as a threat after the drone attacks started and intensified after that. They adopted the name from Afghani taliban but their beliefs are more inline with the Takfiri ideology (look it up).

Next 3-18 weeks will be important for world security as Al-Qaeda will look to seek revenge but as many have raised the question before, first we need to see evidence that OBL is in fact dead and only his operatives can confirm that or pictures of the funeral and the body.
 

Eeshaan

New Member
OK, a;though yesterday was a great day, a great achievement in the War On Terror, the death of the most wanted man, and a reason to celebrate.

But is it just me, or does anyone else also feel that we have just cut 1 head of the Hydra ? This war on terror might not end as quickly as some people might believe...
 

webmaster

Troll Hunter
Staff member
OK, a;though yesterday was a great day, a great achievement in the War On Terror, the death of the most wanted man, and a reason to celebrate.

But is it just me, or does anyone else alfo feel that we have just cut 1 head of the Hydra ? This war on terror might not end as quickly as some people might believe...
Yeah, good day indeed.

OBL was a symbol and I don't think he was actually directing any terrorist attacks (at least not in last couple of years). I wouldn't rule out that people who want to be like him would seek his advice but thats just a theory. You might see more activity from the affiliates of Al-qaeda while it realigns its self in the post-OBL world.
 

Shock

New Member
still waiting for the pictures to be leaked to the media.

i mean, we got Saddam and had a video of him that day..
 

Twinblade

Member
Please explain, what could Osama give to ISI that they didn't already have? What use is a man suffering from kidney disease to ISI?
Support from hardliners and a large chunk of general population ( who by the way love to hate anything american) in case there is another military coupe.

A living, walking, talking peace agreement with Talibs in case ISAF left Afghanistan with unfinished business leaving Pakistan's and Afghanistan' future in ambiguity.

A face saving measure if Pakistan decides to be a glowing beacon of Anti-Americanism in the future.

A negotiable asset for American support in case of sh*t hits the fan with any of their neighbors.

The possibilities can be endless.

PS : All of them are my personal opinions. Mods can delete this post if they find it offensive or distasteful.
 

NICO

New Member
http://defensetech.org/2011/05/02/the-mh-60-crash-at-bin-ladens-house/

Reports now say 2MH60s that went it and 2 MH47s as support. Maybe 24 SEALS on the ground?

Picture of damaged MH60, it is hard to tell if it is really a MH60. Seems to have clipped a wall of the compound. They say it was mechanical failure, maybe the walls were so high and night flying, maybe the helicopter lost some lift , reacted in a different manner than normal? Seems to have broken in half on the wall, lucky everyone got out alive.

Doesn't say anything about cache of weapons found.
 

webmaster

Troll Hunter
Staff member
Support from hardliners and a large chunk of general population ( who by the way love to hate anything american) in case there is another military coupe.

A living, walking, talking peace agreement with Talibs in case ISAF left Afghanistan with unfinished business leaving Pakistan's and Afghanistan' future in ambiguity.

A face saving measure if Pakistan decides to be a glowing beacon of Anti-Americanism in the future.

A negotiable asset for American support in case of sh*t hits the fan with any of their neighbors.

The possibilities can be endless.

PS : All of them are my personal opinions. Mods can delete this post if they find it offensive or distasteful.

Well, I didn't find your opinion offensive or distasteful at all even though I disagree with some parts of it.

Having said that, the "large chunk of population" is same that fought along side with Pakistan army during the Swat operations so it would be foolish to assume not only that locals knew who lived there and that they supported OBL.

Pakistan did not need OBL when there was peace in Afghanistan for over 5 years so to assume that a kidney disease stricken OBL was a tool that ISI could use win Talibs back in Pakistans camp is another illusion and feeble attempt to create a connection between ISI and its sheltering of OBL.

As eager as ISAF is about leaving Afghanistan, it is will remain there for another 10-20 years before we see measurable progress and if ISAF leave before that, the snake will rise again. I think ISI and CIA know that very well so for an intelligence agency like ISI to put all hopes on one sick guy is mind boggling.

Well anti-Americanism is growing around the world, not just in Pakistan. And in Pakistan, it is largely due to the illegal drone attacks and CIA operations inside the borders of Pakistan. If anti-Americanism does glow somewhere, it is probably fault of our own doing and how we've managed to get ourselves involved in internal business of 3rd world countries with most corrupt regimes.
 

Shock

New Member
Well anti-Americanism is growing around the world, not just in Pakistan. And in Pakistan, it is largely due to the illegal drone attacks and CIA operations inside the borders of Pakistan. If anti-Americanism does glow somewhere, it is probably fault of our own doing and how we've managed to get ourselves involved in internal business of 3rd world countries with most corrupt regimes.
Yes, we are the masters of our own doing in that regard. we have a habit of building Frankenstein monsters that end up biting us in the butt.

the Arab revolts have given the U.S. an opportunity to polish it's image a bit (still needs to play it's cards right) along with undermining the grievances that makes them join militant groups and with OBL dead, we don't have any major reasons that i can think of to keep messing with Pakistan.

so time to draw down, get out, and focus on bringing down the deficit and let europe and china learn the folly of extended military adventures.

most of that has already been set in stone but the voices are going to get louder in the next election..
 

ruutik

New Member
Apparently, ObL's body has already been disposed of - a burial at sea, in accordance with Muslim traditions.

Source: CBS News website (sry, no link).
It seems to me that it's look like an american tradition than muslim))))))
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
It seems to me that it's look like an american tradition than muslim))))))
Muslims are required to bury their dead as soon as possible and burial at sea is acceptable if there are no other options. In OBL's case burying him as sea was the option chosen by the U.S. as according to them no country was willing to have him buried on their soil. What they didn't say was that even if a country was willing to accept his body, it couldn't be allowed as there might be a chance that the location of his grave would leaked out and it might definitely have attracted attenttion of the wrong kind. I don't know if that's still the case today but the graves of the Al Qaeda Chechians who were killed buying time for the leadership to escape from the Tora Bora mountains, became a rallying point for Afghans who visited their graves in the belief that their graves had healing powers.

Sir,The raiding party was not un-invited---the mountain range between pak and afg---most of the places you can't cross it flying a helicopter---. .
I will put it this way---even if there was not a single american operative involved and all the work was done by the pak forces---nobody in pakistan would want to take credit of it under the current circumstances----. No one wants their whole familes and tribes obliterated by suicide bombers and madder than hornet al qaeda operatives----so u s sepc forces---enjoy the glory.
So your saying that the raiders were not un-invited and that the raid was conducted with the knowledge and cooperation of the Pakistani authorities?

Well, we'll just have to wait for more reports to appear.

If ISI can sever ties with entity like Taliban (afghanistan) then Osama is just loose change. It was ISI who captured Khaled Sheikh Mohamed, and countless others who were sent to Gitmo... so, why would you give up his associates and not him? Thats like knocking down walls and trying to hold the roof up, it doesn't make any sense and folks need to stop creating fables out of misinformation.
It is a well documentated fact that elements of the ISI even after 9//11 mantained their ties with theTaliban for their own ends, whilst still cooperating with the Americans, it is not a fable. The Palistan army and ISI still contains elements that believe that cooperation with th Afghan Taliban as well as other groups is vital for geo-political reasons as well as ideological.

Are you suggesting that after 9/11, the ISI totally severed ties with the Aghan Taliban and that all intel on the whereabouts of Al Qaeda operatives and leaders were passed on to the U.S. and that nothing was held back?

Moreover, I don't think OBL was going around meeting and socializing with the locals so it makes it harder to track someone down who is unable to move around freely without being recognized. I am sure they had couriers and those who went out for necessary things. God knows best.
It's pure speculation on my part as you've mentioned we dont know the whole truth but I still find it hard to accept that OBL was able to live for some time in that compound without some 'jihadist' elements of the Pakistani army or ISI knowing about it. Yes he certainly wasn't in the habit of socialising with his neighbours and moving around a lot but are we expected to believe that he left Afghanistan and ended up where he was killed without some elements in the Pakistani army or ISI knowing about it?

Afghan Taliban are not problem for Pakistan,
It is hardly surprising as when theTaliban first appeared and gained popularity
Pakistan and Saudi became their main backers. Prior to that, Pakistan's main man was Hetmatyar of the Hezb-Islami, a fundamentalist zealot who spent a lot of his time attacking other Afghan factions.
 
Last edited:

ruutik

New Member
What they didn't say was that even if a country was willing to accept his body, it couldn't be allowed as there might be a chance that the location of his grave would leaked out and it might definitely have attracted attenttion of the wrong kind. I don't know if that's still the case today but the graves of the Al Qaeda Chechians who were killed buying time for the leadership to escape from the Tora Bora mountains, became a rallying point for Afghans who visited their graves in the belief that their graves had healing powers.
Yeah, that's right. Actually his grave would attracted attenttion of million of Islamic fundamentalists.:daz
 
Last edited by a moderator:

My2Cents

Active Member
Reports in US say Pakistan wasn't told about helicopters and weren't detected so why didn't police/military check out all the commotion?:confused:

Again another strange thing: US troops were in the compound for 40 to 45 minutes, why Pakistan police or military didn't show up? I mean, common on now!
There are 2 Pakistanis who has become a minor celebrity because they Twittered live coverage of the raid, starting with complaints about the helicopter noise. It wasn’t until the announcements came out later that they knew that it had been OBL! :lol3
Twitter and Osama bin Laden raid: Two Pakistanis provided Twitter followers first accounts of Bin Laden raid - latimes.com

Pakistani police tend to be scarce until the shooting stops, which is typical of violent areas of the world. However, given the accounts so far of the explosions and volume of fire most police would have been hunkered down and screaming for back-up. :splat

As for the military, if the units were stationed more than 10 miles away it is doubtful that they could have gotten there before the US forces departed. :finger
 

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
The place was less then a kilometre from their main military acadamy.
Exactly this is the part that I do not get at all.

This makes me doubt whether OBL was in that compound for a long time, because if he was why did not the ISI know about it. In my opinion there are two possibilities

1. the ISI knew he was there but did not reveal the info for reasons we do not know.(probably never will)

2. The ISI is so incompetent that they never realized that they had the most wanted man in the history of the world as their close neighbor.

I know which one I believe.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
How the recent events in the Middle East have side-placed Al Qaeda and OBL's death.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTZPjB4WHQs"]YouTube - Robert Fisk on Bin Laden death[/nomedia]
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
Exactly this is the part that I do not get at all.

This makes me doubt whether OBL was in that compound for a long time, because if he was why did not the ISI know about it. In my opinion there are two possibilities

1. the ISI knew he was there but did not reveal the info for reasons we do not know.(probably never will)

2. The ISI is so incompetent that they never realized that they had the most wanted man in the history of the world as their close neighbor.

I know which one I believe.
Why would they be looking for him there though? Its possibly the last place they'd have thought of looking for him. The US was only led there because they got intell from a prisoner at Guantanamo bay who gave them a name, that person once identified was then traced back to the property.
 

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
Why would they be looking for him there though? Its possibly the last place they'd have thought of looking for him. The US was only led there because they got intell from a prisoner at Guantanamo bay who gave them a name, that person once identified was then traced back to the property.
Correct me if i am wrong here but in Bangladesh anything within a few km radius of our largest mily academy is within a tightly guarded mily district and I suppose the same thing is true for Pakistan, so if the the most wanted criminal in the world was within this area then wouldn't he get caught, by the heavy presence of mily intelligence within that particular area.
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
Correct me if i am wrong here but in Bangladesh anything within a few km radius of our largest mily academy is within a tightly guarded mily district and I suppose the same thing is true for Pakistan, so if the the most wanted criminal in the world was within this area then wouldn't he get caught, by the heavy presence of mily intelligence within that particular area.
As far as I know there is nothing like that here. GF could confirm.

Not all countries are the same.
 
Top