NZDF General discussion thread

[kiwi in exile]

https://www.1news.co.nz/2026/05/30/pete-hegseth-says-nz-is-freeloading-off-american-military/

Hegseth doesn't have anything against NZ he just wants 3.5% defence spending.
Expect talks with Japan and the UK re frigate replacemet at sangri-La dialogues.
Cabinet to be advised'before the end of next year" (Penk as per RNZ). Thats a long wait

 

[kiwipatriot69]

https://www.1news.co.nz/2026/05/30/pete-hegseth-says-nz-is-freeloading-off-american-military/

Hegseth doesn't have anything against NZ he just wants 3.5% defence spending.
Expect talks with Japan and the UK re frigate replacemet at sangri-La dialogues.
Cabinet to be advised'before the end of next year" (Penk as per RNZ). Thats a long wait

Still it is insulting for them to say we're 'freeloaders', considering our history of assisting Usa in multiple wars and in peacetime, since WW2? Antarctica logistics support, Rocketlabs launching their satellites, humanitarian aid across the pacific,piracy patrols as a part of the combined task forces in the middle east, to name but a a few of the important roles we do.

As much as id like the defence budget doubled, it already has, and there's no fat to get it from. We have a oil crisis Trump provoked thats hitting every kiwis hard in the pocket. Unlike Usa we have to prioritize that in a election.

Unless National wants to cancel all those New Hospitals and sell off state housing for the poor. Im sure that will work out well with the poverty, sickness and social unrest it will cause. Besides, what would we do with the extra 4 Billion annually? Shiny new warships and stealth jets we cant crew?

 

[Gracie1234]

Pete was quite clear that history is improtant but it is what nations do today that is important also. This was a very clear to message to Europe in particular. NZ has a clear decision to make, does it want to maintain its partnership with the USA and the associated benefits or not. The price for this is moving towards the 3.5% investment in defence. The US itself is significantly increasing its budget. These funds are not all for ships and kinetic weapons but also in cyber and drones. 3.5% defence spending is doable when compared to the $9 Billion we pay in interest costs on govt debt. So it comes down to choice, is this worth the investment or not, NZ has the funds but it must make a choice. The USA has been very clear when it talks to Europe, they made a choice to increase welfare spending at the expense of defence spending. What is the value of our EEZ and Antarctic resources, how would we protect our clain and can we do it alone? I would say no we can not do it alone, we need to be part of a stonger club. The USA chairs the club. As resources are becoming more scare the pressure is mounting. This pressure is being felt more by our Pacific cousins.

 

[kiwipatriot69]

Pete was quite clear that history is improtant but it is what nations do today that is important also. This was a very clear to message to Europe in particular. NZ has a clear decision to make, does it want to maintain its partnership with the USA and the associated benefits or not. The price for this is moving towards the 3.5% investment in defence. The US itself is significantly increasing its budget. These funds are not all for ships and kinetic weapons but also in cyber and drones. 3.5% defence spending is doable when compared to the $9 Billion we pay in interest costs on govt debt. So it comes down to choice, is this worth the investment or not, NZ has the funds but it must make a choice. The USA has been very clear when it talks to Europe, they made a choice to increase welfare spending at the expense of defence spending. What is the value of our EEZ and Antarctic resources, how would we protect our clain and can we do it alone? I would say no we can not do it alone, we need to be part of a stonger club. The USA chairs the club. As resources are becoming more scare the pressure is mounting. This pressure is being felt more by our Pacific cousins.

Where do u suggest the extra funding comes from then? New Housing for the poor builds already cut in half and 1.6 Billion extra funding found from cutting thousands of jobs from the public sector, putting up rent for social housing and cutting tertiary education funding!

Hesegeth for that matter has also said in the past that drone tech, new defence tech will be prioritized for Usa, of course it will! Because of the Iran war they are losing.

So when Nz buys those drones I hope we find a solution elsewhere instead of locked into Us tech where we pay a premium now, may have it switched off if we displease them somehow, may have to use it in Iran, or have its delivery delayed as a bargaining chip.

How can we meet 3.5% when the govt themselves cant even fund the big energy projects on our own without bringing in Giant corporations to do the heavy lifting? Its all relative.

 

[Gibbo]

Still it is insulting for them to say we're 'freeloaders', considering our history of assisting Usa in multiple wars and in peacetime, since WW2? Antarctica logistics support, Rocketlabs launching their satellites, humanitarian aid across the pacific,piracy patrols as a part of the combined task forces in the middle east, to name but a a few of the important roles we do.

As much as id like the defence budget doubled, it already has, and there's no fat to get it from. We have a oil crisis Trump provoked thats hitting every kiwis hard in the pocket. Unlike Usa we have to prioritize that in a election.

Unless National wants to cancel all those New Hospitals and sell off state housing for the poor. Im sure that will work out well with the poverty, sickness and social unrest it will cause. Besides, what would we do with the extra 4 Billion annually? Shiny new warships and stealth jets we cant crew?

I think @Gracie1234 has answered your points very well and better than I could phrase it! By & large we do indeed freeload ....certainly in terms of meaningful combat capability...and yes we all agree we certainly never used to! However it is the current worsening geo-political instability and the way forward that we need to focus on now.

Over the last 30 years our defence investment has dropped significantly whilst others (esp. the Aussies) have kept up incremental growth ...and now we are faced with trying to fairly rapidly play a degree of 'catch-up' which is the result of poor policy settings over that last 30 years ..this was always going to come back & bite us! We retrenched funding & siginificant capability in that time ...the NZDF would currently struggle to undertake an East Timor type operation and would not be able to sustain it beyond 6 months. Hell the living quarters are barely liveable in some cases!

I think we are all aware of the parlous state of the NZDF but even what is proposed is fairly modest ...but also realistic. I've always been fairly astounded that the NZDF has only ever seemed to 'dabble' with uncrewed systems and seemed to be forever 'testing' them when most armed forces around the planet have had mature such systems for any years that have in many cases already been replaced with newer, more capable versions ...now finally there is a coherent plan for the NZDF to move into these systems at scale.

With respect to Rocket Lab... they do not represent a NZ (Govt) initiative so not we can't really 'claim' credit for them as a distinctly NZ contribution to regional security ...they have effectively been an 'American' company for over a decade although there is no denying the benefit of having them operate here. And as for for Hesketh....

 

[Gibbo]

Where do u suggest the extra funding comes from then? New Housing for the poor builds already cut in half and 1.6 Billion extra funding found from cutting thousands of jobs from the public sector, putting up rent for social housing and cutting tertiary education funding!

Hesegeth for that matter has also said in the past that drone tech, new defence tech will be prioritized for Usa, of course it will! Because of the Iran war they are losing.

So when Nz buys those drones I hope we find a solution elsewhere instead of locked into Us tech where we pay a premium now, may have it switched off if we displease them somehow, may have to use it in Iran, or have its delivery delayed as a bargaining chip.

How can we meet 3.5% when the govt themselves cant even fund the big energy projects on our own without bringing in Giant corporations to do the heavy lifting? Its all relative.

I get your concern and share some of those but plain & simple NZ will not get to that 3.5% ...if we can show we have a coherent plan and continue meaningful investment we should keep the 'wolf' from the door long enough for 'common-sense' to return to the US political system.

 

[Gracie1234]

The largest investment in drones is actually with a NZ company Autonomous, Utilitarian, Uncrewed Solutions. Air. Land. Sea. and https://defsec.net.nz/2026/03/06/syos-aerospace-awarded-nzdf-autonomous-contract/. So we are investing in our own technology stack for this domain, which is a great.

FYI, i was one of the public service workers who lost their job from the previous govt cuts or whatever you want to call it.

The big energy projects are being funded by the companies themselves, which the govt is a major shareholder. Here is the latest plan update: Generation investment pipeline: updates and insights

To be clear i doubt we will get to 3.5% but obviously more is being asked. As a tech worker i know we get a lot of benefits from the cyber resources we get access to, which as a small country we would not be able to generate ourselves. There are certain countries that target us continously who we rarely call out. Spying and trying to install kill switches in our core infrastructure are not acts of a friend. For context, the cyber event that shut down Hamilton Hospital resulted in over 20 deaths, not publicly reported due to a delay in care being able to be delivered.
Does it matter if it was a bomb that killed those people?

 

[StevoJH]

3.5% is achievable, *if* the political will is there to do it.

Either by rebalancing budget priorities or looking at ways to increase revenue.

I think it could definitely be argued that New Zealand is freeloading off the ADF, regardless of what support they receive (or don't) from the US Military. Especially since current spending is actually closer to 1% of GDP then it is to 2%.

 

[Xthenaki]

deleted

 

[Rob c]

3.5% is achievable, *if* the political will is there to do it.

Either by rebalancing budget priorities or looking at ways to increase revenue.

I think it could definitely be argued that New Zealand is freeloading off the ADF, regardless of what support they receive (or don't) from the US Military. Especially since current spending is actually closer to 1% of GDP then it is to 2%.

While we have not spent enough on defence for the last 35years but prior to1990 we were tracking well above 2%GDP, what the US does not understand is that we have a universal health care system, a generous pension system and a comprehesive system of social security that we pay for, none of which the American tax payer gets.
I personally think we could get to 3% which was achieved back in 1980.

 

[spoz]

Oh, they understand it. But they don’t believe those things are important, at least the current administration doesn’t. They see that as an example of where what they regard as socialism takes you; and that Governments shouldn’t be providing them. Therefore, they believe those should be wound down to enable a more US like society; with the concomitant ability to use the funds released for defence. In other words, to them those programs are not an excuse or the sign of a caring society; rather it is an example of degeneracy. Not a position most of the other Western democracies would support, of course. But neither NZ, nor Australia, nor any of their other allies will change that view.

 

[swerve]

While we have not spent enough on defence for the last 35years but prior to1990 we were tracking well above 2%GDP, what the US does not understand is that we have a universal health care system, a generous pension system and a comprehesive system of social security that we pay for, none of which the American tax payer gets.
I personally think we could get to 3% which was achieved back in 1980.

Your health care system costs about the same in tax-funded spending as a share of GDP, as government spending on health in the USA.

 

[Rob c]

Your health care system costs about the same in tax-funded spending as a share of GDP, as government spending on health in the USA.

Interesting, they seem very inefficient then a figures I saw last month said that total heath spending(government and private) in the US is the highest per capita in the world, but the assessed outcomes placed them at 16th overall and that 30% of the population had no or inadequate health care.
The basic figures are interesting NZ total 10.2% , US total 18.1% GDP, The arithmetic does not seem to add up very well.

 

[RetirementIsGood]

It's relatively easy for our government to increase the amount 'spent' on Defence: it's just a matter of being a little more creative with their accounting.
For example

• Don't have a separate Vote:Veterans Affairs, roll it into Vote: Defence
  Any hospital treatment for a Member of the Armed Forces, an NZDF employee or a Veteran is billed back from Health NZ or ACC to Defence.
• We want a new graving dock at Marsden Point, so we say in must be big enough for HMNZS Aotearoa, it's a strategic requirement and charge it to Vote: Defence
  Now we have a Strategic Requirement to upgrade the rail link from Marsden Point south - Vote: Defence to pay for it.
• Upgrade SH2 & SH3 between Ohakea, Linton and Napier Port for 'improved logistic support of NZDF deployments'

There must be dozens of roading, housing and other infrastructure projects that the government is going to do anyway that can be dressed up as "Defence", and bingo, we're spending heaps more on Defence without needing to raise any additional tax dollars. The bean counters just need to let their creative juices flow

 

[Rob c]

It's relatively easy for our government to increase the amount 'spent' on Defence: it's just a matter of being a little more creative with their accounting.
For example

• Don't have a separate Vote:Veterans Affairs, roll it into Vote: Defence
  Any hospital treatment for a Member of the Armed Forces, an NZDF employee or a Veteran is billed back from Health NZ or ACC to Defence.
• We want a new graving dock at Marsden Point, so we say in must be big enough for HMNZS Aotearoa, it's a strategic requirement and charge it to Vote: Defence
  Now we have a Strategic Requirement to upgrade the rail link from Marsden Point south - Vote: Defence to pay for it.
• Upgrade SH2 & SH3 between Ohakea, Linton and Napier Port for 'improved logistic support of NZDF deployments'

There must be dozens of roading, housing and other infrastructure projects that the government is going to do anyway that can be dressed up as "Defence", and bingo, we're spending heaps more on Defence without needing to raise any additional tax dollars. The bean counters just need to let their creative juices flow

Ity is not a matter of dressing up the figures but of actually achieving results. When quoting defence as a percentage of GDP it is normal to quote the figure arrived at by using the NATO standard method, not some contrived figure arrived at by manipulation.

 

[John Fedup]

Interesting, they seem very inefficient then a figures I saw last month said that total heath spending(government and private) in the US is the highest per capita in the world, but the assessed outcomes placed them at 16th overall and that 30% of the population had no or inadequate health care.
The basic figures are interesting NZ total 10.2% , US total 18.1% GDP, The arithmetic does not seem to add up very well.

I would bet money that lawsuits in the US add significantly to overall US costs. The chances of getting huge awards from insurance companies are easier than awards from a government run health care system. The best health care is in the US for those working for a solid company with a first class health insurance plan in a urban location or if you are a federal pollie.

 

[Rob c]

urban location or if you are a federal pollie.

Are you telling me that all those pollies that vote against health care have already got their own good systemwonder why this is.

 

[kiwipatriot69]

3.5% is achievable, *if* the political will is there to do it.

Either by rebalancing budget priorities or looking at ways to increase revenue.

I think it could definitely be argued that New Zealand is freeloading off the ADF, regardless of what support they receive (or don't) from the US Military. Especially since current spending is actually closer to 1% of GDP then it is to 2%.

Again, id ask, what 'fat' would you cut? I pointed out valuable public sector jobs lost, first year tertiary education And kiwisaver contributions were cut too.And hundreds of millions of dollars in rental increases to beneficiarys in state housing, pensioners included in that mix.

Unless we want to sell of state housing and gut Healthcare and education further, which would cause massive social unrest and counterproductive in long term cost to this nation. We could increase taxes 5% i suppose.

The only other viable option would be increase mining of rare earth minerals ect. If we even have enough revenue that way?

Hopefully pushing forward with the big ticket defence items will placate Usa,and making Pete Hesgeth aware of all our contributions ,from our five eyes intelligence bases , satellite launches, antarctic support,overseas deployments that either hes willfully ignorant of, or hasn't been briefed on.

 

[danonz]

To put it in $terms, 3.5% of GDP is 15.58 Billion, this year NZ defense spend is 5.49 1.23 % looks like free loading to me. We had decades of relative peace (when the USA was the so called worlds police) and NZ govt's ran defence into the ground took the $$ saved and brought votes with it.

Now everyone is use to the free handouts and starts crying when they think they wont get them.
War is "When" not "if"
I dont see many people wanting to join the defence force if their is a hot war, when we have no real air defence no air support and 2 30 year old frigates. Defence of the country is the one of the main points of a govt not kiwi saver contributions.

 

[swerve]

Interesting, they seem very inefficient then a figures I saw last month said that total heath spending(government and private) in the US is the highest per capita in the world, but the assessed outcomes placed them at 16th overall and that 30% of the population had no or inadequate health care.
The basic figures are interesting NZ total 10.2% , US total 18.1% GDP, The arithmetic does not seem to add up very well.

Yes, that's right. US health spending is very inefficient indeed. Highest admin costs as a share of spending, & highest spending, for example, so admin spending per head is as much as total spending per head in some countries with similar or even better results.

The state options are extraordinarily complicated, which puts up costs & reduces availability.