NZDF General discussion thread

RegR

Well-Known Member
Another factor against lease is the lessor is unlikley to allow (esp. with respect to insurance) the leased aircraft to go anywhere near an area that might have heightened threat scenarios and that threshold would fall well below what we'd consider a 'combat zone' as far as an insurer is concerned. Therefore a leased aircraft would likely only be able to perform civvy-level duites ...that's fine in the greater scheme of things but the RNZAF has a miniscule transport fleet (& miniscule budgets) therefore it needs as much flexibility from every platform it operates.

Also wrt others references to the A330MRTT ...it was never developed with a strengthened cargo floor so is (was?) not offered in a true combi config. Has this changed?
Premiums alone would sky high haha! but yes another cost that would have to be passed onto the customer, RNZAF. I doubt the 757s are even insured and the govt just underwrites them and takes the risk on a total hull loss, something a lessor probably wouldnt be willing to take a chance on for a multi $million aircraft/investment despite the promise of 1 little old lady flyer and only on Sundays?
 

Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Winston Peters is starting to ramp up pressure to increase defence spending. It may ore may not happen as while the PM is saying the write words he is more of the bean counter variety of person and until the words become reality I am not holding my breath.
MSN
 

Teal

Active Member
Morning All
To replace the B757 is an interesting discussion , I will throw my two cents into the well.

MRTT – I feel its just too big (attached image) for operations in NZ and the Pacific. It would not be able to be based at WP or OH. CH or AA would be the only options to lift off at MAUW, remember we moved the P8 to OH largely for the runway , and even that is too short to enable a MAUW take off. This frame does not come standard with upper deck cargo.
KC46 – This could work, although again they would have to move to OH and even then Im sure it would not be able to MAUW Ops. She does have a cargo door and set up for this. Within a few years there will be close to 3x as many of these in service than MRTT. I get a bit tired of the “cos the RAAF has that kit , we should too. “ The B767 has operated all over the Pacific. Air NZ has previous experience.
KHI C2 – Many years ago we were able to whip the rotor head off a Huey and push it into the Herk , M113s , Landies and Scorpions drive in. Today no show , like me , the NZDF has expanded around the waist and our lack of capability has become a burden on other nations. We have to call in our 5 eyes partners to move our kit , not good, in fact just plain embarrassing. The C2 would solve this issue. It would become the preferred Antarctica frame and could be still based at WP. Its not a great “airforce one “ by looks , but Im sure with some creative pallet work we could come up with a VIP interior.

No serious option is going to be cheap , esp if we get the minimum number of 4 frames. The second order effects, depending on the frame, are going to be significant too with re basing costs. One could even say , maybe its time for a new airbase to future proof the NZDF ? Another couple of thoughts are , 1. with the decline of trade with China should we be looking at using the purchase of this aircraft (and others , like Maritime helo) to help push a free trade deal with the US. 2. Acquiring a Tanker is not a silly idea. Like the Navy with ROA our frames could be off contributing to global efforts. 3. Should conflict happen in Asia the Tanker/cargo would be a prime asset across the Pacific.

Sadly for the NZ and the NZDF , If I was to put on my “reality hat” I would think the DCP will say , do not replace the 757 , buy two more C130 and charter VIP as required.
Screenshot_20230125_151431_Google.jpg
 

Gooey

Well-Known Member
Teal, you read my mind.
Noting that the Boeings operate more missions than just pollies, but is the VIP role really core RNZAF business?
Would doubling our C-130 fleet be more militarily relevant instead, IOT concentrate training and logistics?
A four acft force of very long range communications jets instead, possibly leased?
Mostly though, its June and the DCP will be out shortly to answer these ramblings.
 

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
Teal, you read my mind.
Noting that the Boeings operate more missions than just pollies, but is the VIP role really core RNZAF business?
Would doubling our C-130 fleet be more militarily relevant instead, IOT concentrate training and logistics?
A four acft force of very long range communications jets instead, possibly leased?
Mostly though, its June and the DCP will be out shortly to answer these ramblings.
Yes more C130 and 1 x leased VIP transport would be more 'militarily relevant' although I doubt the Govt will want to spend up much on too many additional C130 (if any at all). I'd like to see 8-10 C130 but now that the DCP won't be punlished until closer to Oct/Nov I suspect the Govt is tinkering with it to dampen down expectations of a $$$ spend-up. To be fair tho the B757 provide 40Sqn with significantly more capability than the constant VIP moniker would imply and 1 x C130J-30 does not replace a B757 on a 1:1 ratio... when either is actually operable!
 

Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Can NZ defend itself now the answer is no. Could it defend in itself in the future, yes it could as we have a 2000 km+moat around us which means if we have the ability to cover both the air and sea approaches to NZ with reasonable quality weapon systems we can defend ourselves. It would take a while to achieve this, one to two decades, but it is achievable.
 
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