NZDF General discussion thread

[kiwipatriot69]

Thank you Mr C

Its a pity that you didn't look into buy the ex RAAF C130H fleet in 2013 putting three airframes operational and the last two as spares hulk's. Were these aircraft in better serviceable condition compared to the Kiwi birds as Indonesia bought and payed for the five remaining H's refurbished, not sure to what level tho

Actually that reminds me, Google the article on dec 18th crash of one of those Indonesian Airforce C130 Hercules that crashed, only months after delivery, killing several on-board. And an even worse one the year prior with another.

One of those gifted in fact by Austrailia, strange that as the article says it only had 9,000 flight hrs of service,I wonder what our herc's have on the clock, how often they are serviced? Personally, I'd rather we buy new.

 

[CJR]

Actually that reminds me, Google the article on dec 18th crash of one of those Indonesian Airforce C130 Hercules that crashed, only months after delivery, killing several on-board. And an even worse one the year prior with another.

One of those gifted in fact by Austrailia, strange that as the article says it only had 9,000 flight hrs of service,I wonder what our herc's have on the clock, how often they are serviced? Personally, I'd rather we buy new.

The 2015 crash (apparent engine failure) was an ex-US C-130B.

The 2016 crash did involve an ex-Australian C-130H, but from what's currently publicly available doesn't seem to indicate mechanical failure was involved.

 

[t68]

I'd rather we buy new.

Agree RNZAF would be in a different place if they had taken the options Australia put in place when we ordered C130J


I did come across a Flight Global article about those options its was valid up until 2002. The article also mentioned that the RAAF H's " time expired in 2008" so I imagine those birds that went to Indonesia went thru a similar deep maintenance level program like the Kiwi birds.

All water under the bridge now but what could have been.



https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/australia-looks-at-c-130j-alternatives-56337/

 

[kiwipatriot69]

Agree RNZAF would be in a different place if they had taken the options Australia put in place when we ordered C130J


I did come across a Flight Global article about those options its was valid up until 2002. The article also mentioned that the RAAF H's " time expired in 2008" so I imagine those birds that went to Indonesia went thru a similar deep maintenance level program like the Kiwi birds.

All water under the bridge now but what could have been.



https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/australia-looks-at-c-130j-alternatives-56337/

Are the C130J in service in RAAF the standard, or stretched 30 version?

 

[t68]

Are the C130J in service in RAAF the standard, or stretched 30 version?

C130J-30's

 

[40 deg south]

Just a heads-up - the Briefing to the Incoming Minister of Defence (along with all other BIMs) has just been released. To the non-locals, a BiM is produced by every department when it gets a new Minister, and generally gives a good overview of current and predicted future activities. Fairly large chunks of them are often blanked out, but they are usually informative if you can read between the lines.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/feature/briefings-incoming-ministers-foreign-affairs-security

Should be at this link. Happy reading!

 

[Todjaeger]

Just a heads-up - the Briefing to the Incoming Minister of Defence (along with all other BIMs) has just been released. To the non-locals, a BiM is produced by every department when it gets a new Minister, and generally gives a good overview of current and predicted future activities. Fairly large chunks of them are often blanked out, but they are usually informative if you can read between the lines.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/feature/briefings-incoming-ministers-foreign-affairs-security

Should be at this link. Happy reading!

These might just be for domestic consumption. When I visited the linked page, it shows a list of linked PDF's but when I click to open any of them, it just loads a blank page.

 

[40 deg south]

These might just be for domestic consumption. When I visited the linked page, it shows a list of linked PDF's but when I click to open any of them, it just loads a blank page.

Hmmm. Works for me.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2017-12/Defence.pdf

Try this - a direct link to the Defence BiM.

All I have seen so far:
- info on Singapore F15 basing proposal largely blanked out
- cost pressures (blanked out) around ANZAC mid-life upgrade
- procurement focus is on surveillance (P-3C replacement) rather than on airlift, while the Capability Plan had the opposite order. But no details.
- Lots of material recycled from previous BiM, unsurprisingly.

 

[Todjaeger]

Hmmm. Works for me.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2017-12/Defence.pdf

Try this - a direct link to the Defence BiM.

All I have seen so far:
- info on Singapore F15 basing proposal largely blanked out
- cost pressures (blanked out) around ANZAC mid-life upgrade
- procurement focus is on surveillance (P-3C replacement) rather than on airlift, while the Capability Plan had the opposite order. But no details.
- Lots of material recycled from previous BiM, unsurprisingly.

Yup. I keep getting the same thing. A blank black page with a small grey oval right in the middle.

EDIT: It turned out to be a browser issue, I was able to download the PDF onto the same device using a different program. I have added it to the stack of things I need to read.

 

[Novascotiaboy]

Worked fine for me here in Canada.

Short on details but there are multiple references to FASC. Early 2018 could be a good time for acquisition announcements. Good to see reference to the LOSC as well. Nothing about the B200 replacement.

Maybe some changes are being planned to the Defence Capability Plan that will enable a broader ability to provide maritime patrol and SAR. Time will tell but with the change in government now well underway hopefully there will be some long planned equipment finally ordered.

One nice thing to read in the BiM was his itinerary to arrive in Halifax for the security conference. Hope he enjoyed his visit here.

 

[Lucasnz]

Interesting to note that lack of any mention in relation to the Littoral Warfare Support Vessel in the briefing. The last I had heard was in a header on the ADF magazine stating that interested parties that the vessel had been deferred and may have to be downgraded (I'll try to post a link later but a subscription was required)

 

[Novascotiaboy]

The LOSC is mentioned on page 20 halway down.

 

[Lucasnz]

The LOSC is mentioned on page 20 halfway down.

Thanks for that. They're dragging that project out big time. Wonder that project should have progressed long ago to construction stage. MOD and the RNZN need a wrap around the knuckles for not getting the requirements right in the first place.

 

[kiwipatriot69]

Thanks for that. They're dragging that project out big time. Wonder that project should have progressed long ago to construction stage. MOD and the RNZN need a wrap around the knuckles for not getting the requirements right in the first place.

Could say the same thing about the new tanker HMNZS Aotearoa, now that Endevour has been decommissioned, two whole years now without that capability! I wonder, how crew keep that skill set, would they train then with other navies on thiers, Australia perhaps?

 

[ngatimozart]

Thanks for that. They're dragging that project out big time. Wonder that project should have progressed long ago to construction stage. MOD and the RNZN need a wrap around the knuckles for not getting the requirements right in the first place.

Is it the MOD and NZDF causing the problems or is the pollies moving the goalposts at each gate?

 

[Lucasnz]

Is it the MOD and NZDF causing the problems or is the pollies moving the goalposts at each gate?

In this case I think the NZDF / MOD are moving the goal posts in order to stay within budget, as evidenced by the two RFT / P documents released and the subsequent advice to tenders. Both documents called IMHO for greater alignment with military standards of construction, hence removing off the shelf Diving Tenders as an option. That's my opinion. I don't think the political element comes into it because Manawanui has proven her worth in supporting wider government activities.

I wonder why we didn't just go with Australia and pick up one SEA1180 for ourselves.

 

[ngatimozart]

The Minister has a decided to declare war on climate change. It may actually help gain approval and support from the Labour and Greens for things like a LHD, extra helos, maybe an extra P-8A, a 3 tier FAMC, extra Kingairs, etc. The left would support all of this when it's related to climate change, monitoring the Antarctic sanctuary, monitoring the EEZ, HADR capabilities and other such things. Maybe even a Triton acquisition.

 

[kiwipatriot69]

The Minister has a decided to declare war on climate change. It may actually help gain approval and support from the Labour and Greens for things like a LHD, extra helos, maybe an extra P-8A, a 3 tier FAMC, extra Kingairs, etc. The left would support all of this when it's related to climate change, monitoring the Antarctic sanctuary, monitoring the EEZ, HADR capabilities and other such things. Maybe even a Triton acquisition.

Great news, climate change I feel should be considered a major threat,despite what the White House and Trump might think. Though I can't get my head around the govt pulling funding from the LOSC for a less capable vessel, given that we still have most of that 20 Billion to spend on assets?

 

[MrConservative]

Great news, climate change I feel should be considered a major threat,despite what the White House and Trump might think. Though I can't get my head around the govt pulling funding from the LOSC for a less capable vessel, given that we still have most of that 20 Billion to spend on assets?

If you look at the RNZN thread it discusses the LOSV being split and deferred into two programmes in light of the RADM Martin interview.

A quick easy Dive Support Vessel delivered with haste and a full monty LOSV a few years later. The current government considers giving middle class welfare to first year university students as more important.

 

[ngatimozart]

Great news, climate change I feel should be considered a major threat,despite what the White House and Trump might think. Though I can't get my head around the govt pulling funding from the LOSC for a less capable vessel, given that we still have most of that 20 Billion to spend on assets?

Actually the $148 million was pulled to cover the increased costs for the Frigate weapons and sensors upgrade, so it's not money being wasted on a less capable platform. Yes there is $20 billion but it was not formalised in a budget passed by Parliament. Mr C will be far more knowledgeable about the process and legalities than I am.