New Turkish Tank's Design

[Waylander]

The Merkava has for sure some nice items which makes it favorable for MOUT (camera system,...) but its main task has been and still is the battle against enemy mech forces.

And are you sure that the new turkish tank design should be able to carry troops? You have a real IFV and the ability of the Merk to carry troops is not a normal option.
The Merk looses his reserve ammo while carrying infantry.
It is not a substitute for a real combined unit of tanks and IFVs and you have seen this during the Lebanon operation.
The Israeli Merks carried their normal ammo during their raids and their (H)APCs were not able to work together with the tanks.

 

[FireFighter]

looks nice i want one

 

[olkiej]

looks nice i want one

Order one at ebay.com !

 

[beleg]

The Merkava has for sure some nice items which makes it favorable for MOUT (camera system,...) but its main task has been and still is the battle against enemy mech forces.

And are you sure that the new turkish tank design should be able to carry troops? You have a real IFV and the ability of the Merk to carry troops is not a normal option.
The Merk looses his reserve ammo while carrying infantry.
It is not a substitute for a real combined unit of tanks and IFVs and you have seen this during the Lebanon operation.
The Israeli Merks carried their normal ammo during their raids and their (H)APCs were not able to work together with the tanks.

I dont think army has such requirement for tanks to carry infantry.

 

[Semkoko]

Yeah israel Merkawa 4 are really good.I am Turk but i doubt about tank project because our worst problem is PKK teror and they are getting heavily armed everyday and tank are getting vulnerable aganist RPG or similiar weapons.In lebanon war Israel has lost merkawa's aganist Hizbullah fighters.
So maybe we should more fast weapon systems just like England.(They are working on some lighter systems like F.R.A.S or sth like tht.

 

[Waylander]

What is less vulnerable to enemy RPGs and ATGMs than a tank?

 

[DoC_FouALieR]

What is less vulnerable to enemy RPGs and ATGMs than a tank?

A helicopter!

 

[Waylander]

Ah, because of this the US lost more than 50 helicopters since the beginning of the Iraq campaign.

I would have thought you would say something like a FREMM.

 

[Tasman]

Ah, because of this the US lost more than 50 helicopters since the beginning of the Iraq campaign.

I would have thought you would say something like a FREMM.

How about a submarine?

Seriously, I think I would rather be in a well armoured tank than in a helicopter if I was in range of an RPG or ATGM, although neither option really appeals.

Cheers

 

[Soner1980]

What Turkey need is a very fast tank with heavy armor, lighter than normal and a deadly 120mm tank gun. Also very cheap in maintenance and lesser fuel consumption. The Al Khalid is the best model for Turkish tank design. For sure Turkey would take the Al Khalid as an example. But the armor is very weak. So, the Turkish Al Khalid weight 56 tons instead of 46 tons and possibly a more powerful engine should be used. Like the leopard 2's 1500 hp diesel engine instead of the Al Khalids, 1200 hp diesel engine.

Also, the tank will be designed and produced in Turkey. Foreign assistance is possibly needed but maybe not.

I have read many things about it at the Defense Secreteriat's website (SSM) and possibly Turkey is preparing to design an armor type domestically instead with foreign assistance. The other parts like the gun, FCS, etc.. will be domestically designed and produced in Turkey. The engine will possibly with a tech transfer or license production.

Roughly, the Al Khalid or the Leopard-2 quality will be the target for the Turkish National Tank Project (MITÜP). The Al Khalid is not known in it's quality against the Leo-2 and the name 'western' also don't say about the quality to me. The Al Khalid is a strong AFV and is one of the best tanks in the world I think after the Russians and NATO designs...i think.

 

[Waylander]

Your description would very well fit with the Leclerc.

Fast, nice 120mm L/52 gun, well armored for its weight of ca. 55 tons, good fuel consumption, very nice tech gadgets in it and it seems to be mature by now without the problems of the early models.

Go for it, build it in license and save the money.

 

[eckherl]

What Turkey need is a very fast tank with heavy armor, lighter than normal and a deadly 120mm tank gun. Also very cheap in maintenance and lesser fuel consumption. The Al Khalid is the best model for Turkish tank design. For sure Turkey would take the Al Khalid as an example. But the armor is very weak. So, the Turkish Al Khalid weight 56 tons instead of 46 tons and possibly a more powerful engine should be used. Like the leopard 2's 1500 hp diesel engine instead of the Al Khalids, 1200 hp diesel engine.

Also, the tank will be designed and produced in Turkey. Foreign assistance is possibly needed but maybe not.

I have read many things about it at the Defense Secreteriat's website (SSM) and possibly Turkey is preparing to design an armor type domestically instead with foreign assistance. The other parts like the gun, FCS, etc.. will be domestically designed and produced in Turkey. The engine will possibly with a tech transfer or license production.

Roughly, the Al Khalid or the Leopard-2 quality will be the target for the Turkish National Tank Project (MITÜP). The Al Khalid is not known in it's quality against the Leo-2 and the name 'western' also don't say about the quality to me. The Al Khalid is a strong AFV and is one of the best tanks in the world I think after the Russians and NATO designs...i think.

What is so special that you feel Turkey, should borrow from it`s technology, the Al Khalid.

 

[MarcH]

Well, what would favour the Merkava is it's suspension. Really impressive how they fly across those rough terrain in the Golans.
Merkava suspension, Renk transmission, MTU Engine, Rheinmetall or Israeli 120mm gun combined in an Turkish designed hull. That would be in short my wishlist as Turkish general.

 

[eckherl]

Well, what would favour the Merkava is it's suspension. Really impressive how they fly across those rough terrain in the Golans.
Merkava suspension, Renk transmission, MTU Engine, Rheinmetall or Israeli 120mm gun combined in an Turkish designed hull. That would be in short my wishlist as Turkish general.

The Merkava`s supension is not made for high speed, but rough terrian. The LEO 2 series have the best suspension systems that are currently out there with Leclerc not that far behind. Israeli 120mm is a German designed gun.

 

[Soner1980]

Why to produce the Leclerc in licence? Than Turkey have to spend money outside of Turkey. And Turkey has just started the project, no more looking around anymore about what type it shall produce.

Turkey has already decided to built a MBT with Turkish design, Turkish license (not from abroad), Turkish systems, etc.. It will be a National Tank Project and not a license production tank project.

Second, The French are in a very bad political position because of the Armenian lie. Turkey rejected many French offers because of this problem.

Finnaly, Turkey want a machine where no other country have the right to say where Turkey have to use their own weapon. Germany warned Turkey many times to do not use the Leopard-1 tanks against the bloodthirsty PKK terrorist. So, we used US made weapons

After all, Turkey now has the knowledge to produce their own MBT. It is expected that the first prototype will be produced in 2009 and the mass production in 2012 by BMC-FNSS consortium. ASELSAN A.S., OTOKAR A.S, MKEK will be pruduce also important parts. So it is domestically designed and produced Turkish tank. Turkey may sell this machine to it's allies too. When produced in license, Turkey is not allowed to sell a single part of it, so it is not interesting Turkey.

 

[MarcH]

The Merkava`s supension is not made for high speed, but rough terrian. The LEO 2 series have the best suspension systems that are currently out there with Leclerc not that far behind. Israeli 120mm is a German designed gun.

Well, I think the terrain in Turkey favours more the Israelian suspension. I found it always impressive how they performed on rough ground.
And the gun, well, the Israelis I spoke to declared it was an indigenous design. :unknown

 

[Soner1980]

The Merkava's 120mm CTG is really an Israeli design. It is not so hard for Israel to produce a tank gun. They have to invest time and money but after a couple of years it will be done I think. Also the same for Turkey, who manufactures 105mm tank guns in the 1980's and later the howitsers.

 

[Waylander]

As long as I know Rheinmetall was involved in the development of the Israeli 120mm.

BWT, it would be nice if you could tell us why the Al-Khalid should be a preferred tech root?

 

[DragonKing786]

What Turkey need is a very fast tank with heavy armor, lighter than normal and a deadly 120mm tank gun. Also very cheap in maintenance and lesser fuel consumption. The Al Khalid is the best model for Turkish tank design. For sure Turkey would take the Al Khalid as an example. But the armor is very weak. So, the Turkish Al Khalid weight 56 tons instead of 46 tons and possibly a more powerful engine should be used. Like the leopard 2's 1500 hp diesel engine instead of the Al Khalids, 1200 hp diesel engine.

Also, the tank will be designed and produced in Turkey. Foreign assistance is possibly needed but maybe not.

I have read many things about it at the Defense Secreteriat's website (SSM) and possibly Turkey is preparing to design an armor type domestically instead with foreign assistance. The other parts like the gun, FCS, etc.. will be domestically designed and produced in Turkey. The engine will possibly with a tech transfer or license production.

Roughly, the Al Khalid or the Leopard-2 quality will be the target for the Turkish National Tank Project (MITÜP). The Al Khalid is not known in it's quality against the Leo-2 and the name 'western' also don't say about the quality to me. The Al Khalid is a strong AFV and is one of the best tanks in the world I think after the Russians and NATO designs...i think.

From some of my sources from Pakistan Army,. they told me that Al-Khalid uses some Turkish systems + Chinese systems,. so I really don't see Turkey having any problems making their own tank, they could check up how their systems are on the AK and improve it for their own tanks, and possibly also offer upgrades to AK (note its from personal source from Pakistan who told me Turkish systems are used in AK, he didn't specify which ones).

But what I want to know, how is Turkish Armour industry cause from Videos I see of their little attack vehicles during tests, etc looks like their in pretty good shape to develop Armour.

* Also,. the AKII which will come out, this friend also said Turkish influence will be heavy on AKII (He said possibly Armour of Turkish origin might be used).

Note: I'm just sharing Info I get, so if you disagree plz don't flame, I know alot of things can happen before AKII comes out, I'm just sharing what I learned with you guyies.

 

[eckherl]

Well, I think the terrain in Turkey favours more the Israelian suspension. I found it always impressive how they performed on rough ground.
And the gun, well, the Israelis I spoke to declared it was an indigenous design. :unknown

Yes - they handle well in rough terrian, but they are not that fast, and yes - they do make their own guns, but they are designed along the parameters as the L-44.