New Coronavirus threat

swerve

Super Moderator
But, but, Mr Novax Joker said he had COVID on 16th Dec and yet he can turn up fully fit for the Australian Open starting 17th Jan? Mmmmmmm
And his Twitter feed shows him attending a public event (a charitable thing) a couple of days after he supposedly had covid-19 - with pictures. Maybe he thought nobody in Australia would be able to understand Serbian.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
And his Twitter feed shows him attending a public event (a charitable thing) a couple of days after he supposedly had covid-19 - with pictures. Maybe he thought nobody in Australia would be able to understand Serbian.
It ain't over yet. He may have one the Court case but apparently the Minster of Immigration is deciding whether of not to cancel his visa and deport him.
 

At lakes

Active Member
One question on his visa appication was have you visited a 3rd country within the last 14 days. He said no but his social media feed shows him in Spain within that period. Me thinks he speaks with forked tongue.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Post 1 of 2: Some of the best American lies told for political gain

1. IMO, the lies told are less important than the reason these lies are needed to sustain the system.

2. "For the past year, my team of three volunteers and I have immersed ourselves into monitoring the political right. We’ve attended rallies and events, monitored social media pages across multiple platforms, lurked in internet chatrooms, and watched countless shows and podcasts. The right-wing disinformation machine is powerful, effective and coordinated," Ron Filipkowski wrote.

3. Dr. Fauci addresses the right-wing disinformation put out by Project Veritas, advanced by Sen Marshall. Sen. Marshall is using Project Veritas misinformation in a Senate hearing.

"It is filled with alternative facts and conspiracy theories about election fraud, COVID, vaccines, school policies, the border, foreign affairs, cryptocurrencies, and many, many other topics. They use fabricated 'studies,' doctored 'reports and journals' with dubious or anonymous sources, fake and deceptively edited videos," wrote Ron Filipkowski.
4. The biggest problem is that in today’s Republican party, the tail is often wagging the dog, with GOP elites like, Gov. Ron DeSantis and Gov. Greg Abbott are getting their talking points and ideas from media influencers on podcasts, social media sites, and television. Working as part of the right-wing disinformation machine, GOP influencers, with their millions of thoroughly indoctrinated followers, push elected Republicans into telling lies and saying what they want to hear, rather than the other way around. These political choices are killing Americans in a pandemic.

(a) Hospitals around the U.S. are grappling with a surge of patients infected by the highly contagious omicron variant. There are about 155,000 patients in U.S. hospitals with Covid, according to a seven-day average of Department of Health and Human Services data, higher than peak levels seen last winter but down 2.4% from one week ago.​

(b) Omicron is surging. That means hospitals are filling up... again. Medical centers were already short-staffed. Now, things have progressed to the point that governors in 10 states have called in the National Guard to help. That also means it's a pretty bad time to need an ICU bed if you don't have COVID-19. Many hospitals are facing staff shortages as health-care professionals are forced to call out sick after getting infected with the omicron variant.​
 
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OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Post 2 of 2: Some of the best American lies told for political gain

5. In a recent development, the Biden administration is formally withdrawing its vaccine and testing mandate for businesses, after the Supreme Court blocked the requirements earlier this month. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) will pull the rule for businesses effective 26 Jan 2022, the agency said. The Supreme Court’s decision was a major blow to President Joe Biden’s strategy to control the spread of the virus. Biden has called on businesses to voluntarily implement the requirements. Labor Secretary Marty Walsh has vowed that OSHA will use its existing powers to protect workers from Covid-19.
6. In contrast, the Covid-19 pandemic has provided Republican Gov. Greg Abbott the chance to wield more power than anyone in Texas history. Abbott’s prolonged reign of expansive executive power had not.
(a) On 29 July 2021, Abbott issued another order, which stripped local authorities of their remaining power to impose restrictions when hospitalizations surge. His 30th executive order related to the pandemic came hours after the state’s health agency announced a foreboding uptick in COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths as the Delta variant spread.​
(b) Critics say Abbott has abused and violated the law by repeatedly using his authority to protect people from disaster, under the Texas Disaster Act of 1975, to prohibit the very practices that safeguard Texans from COVID-19, all while consolidating enormous amounts of power within his office. Under the act, a governor’s disaster declaration grants him broad emergency powers to issue executive orders that have the “full force and effect of law” and to suspend regulatory statutes and agency rules that prescribe the “procedures for conduct of state business” if the governor believes that following those laws would in any way “prevent, hinder, or delay necessary action in coping with a disaster.”​
7. The Biden administration on 14 Jan 2021 threatened to rescind millions of dollars in federal coronavirus aid for Arizona, accusing the state of using the funds to undermine efforts to stop the spread of the virus. Republican Gov. Doug Ducey’s office has 60 days to either change two federally subsidized state school programs totaling US$173 million, or redirect the money toward “eligible uses,” the Treasury Department said in a letter.
(a) Often, GOP elites then appoint propaganda mouth pieces to tell lies to further the agenda of the right-wing disinformation machine. For example, Republican Gov. DeSantis’ new Surgeon General, Dr. Joseph Ladapo, is a doctor who publicly promoted hydroxychloroquine to treat Covid, even though we know it does not work vs Covid, and who said vaccines were “nothing special” as a preventative treatment. DeSantis has surrounded himself with cranks, and decided he needs to play to the GOP bases’s hatred for experts, and his Covid policies have gotten stupider and stupider as a result.​
(b) Dr. Joseph Ladapo’s controversial views on vaccinations and masking were well documented, including his appearance with America’s Frontline Doctors on the steps of the U.S. Supreme Court urging the use of hydroxychloroquine, which has proven ineffective against COVID-19. On his second day on the job, Dr. Ladapo issued an emergency order stripping school districts of the authority to quarantine students exposed to COVID-19, letting the parents instead decide whether to send their kids to school. It is more accurate to be characterising Dr. Ladapo as “alt right”. I use that term simply to mean any fake-news-obsessed, anti-establishment troll, with a medical degree, who whips up followers with performative outrage.​
(c) Alt-right trolls like Dr. Ladapo aren’t all "right-wing" in a traditional Republican sense. They’re misinformation activists/facilitators, who care more about provoking than about seeking wisdom. “Dr. Ladapo has proven time and time again that data and science are not top of mind when making decisions about the health and wellness of Floridians,” said Sen. Janet Cruz, D-Tampa, who also sits on the Health Policy Committee. “At a time with so much misinformation flying, it's important to have Florida’s top doc grounded in facts and not extreme political rhetoric." She said she is convinced his confirmation will be approved along party lines, in which case she hopes he will revisit his medical training “and use constructive common sense above destructive divisive decision making as he leads Floridians everywhere through this pandemic.”​

8. Florida, paying for drugs that don’t work — this is a classic case of the poor use of tax dollars, given the high cost of US$2,200 per treatment (that won’t work). There are different monoclonal antibodies and some work against Omicron while some don’t. But that doesn’t stop DeSantis from pushing monoclonal antibodies that don’t work on Omicron like Regeneron. If the FDA suggests halting their use there's a good chance the insurance company won't pay for it. Need I say more?
 
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ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
There needs be more for examples of this in the media. There is a small chance some of the feeble minded might finally get the message about vaccination.

Unvaccinated man denied heart transplant by Boston hospital
Yes. I personally know of a case where a patient was denied a cardiac procedure because they refused to give up smoking or follow other medical advice. I understood that they lodged a complaint that was denied and they went to the Health & Disability Commission, but I never heard the outcome of that. My own POV is that the cardiac team were correct in their decision.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
There are a lot of people (mostly right-wing Americans, I think) complaining about 'freedom' & being told that it is & always has been a standard protocol to reserve organs donated for transplant for those who can benefit most, & refusing a vaccine against a common & serious disease (any such disease) has always been one of the many grounds for refusal.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
There needs be more for examples of this in the media. There is a small chance some of the feeble minded might finally get the message about vaccination.
I'm afraid not going to change much of their perspective. For some time I already engaged in online racing game community (just entertainment game to let off some steam). The communities is International ones and come from different background and aged.

One of the members just dies due to Omicron. He's healthy, Millennials, and Non smoker but anti vax. Still after this his closest friends that shares his views, still talking trash of need for vaccinated.

Some of us talked separately and just smack our face. So, like it or not vaccination need to be make mandatory at least by Business. Nothing more incentivied most people on something asside how it's affecting their wallets.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
I'm afraid not going to change much of their perspective. For some time I already engaged in online racing game community (just entertainment game to let off some steam). The communities is International ones and come from different background and aged.

One of the members just dies due to Omicron. He's healthy, Millennials, and Non smoker but anti vax. Still after this his closest friends that shares his views, still talking trash of need for vaccinated.

Some of us talked separately and just smack our face. So, like it or not vaccination need to be make mandatory at least by Business. Nothing more incentivied most people on something asside how it's affecting their wallets.
Yes, financial incentive for vaccination hasn’t really worked but financial disincentive apparently does. The Quebec government is now charging a hospital bed surcharge on unvaccinated patients. A significant rise in vaccination has been the result. Anti vaxers are like smokers, nothing will happen to me.
 
I'm afraid not going to change much of their perspective. For some time I already engaged in online racing game community (just entertainment game to let off some steam). The communities is International ones and come from different background and aged.

One of the members just dies due to Omicron. He's healthy, Millennials, and Non smoker but anti vax. Still after this his closest friends that shares his views, still talking trash of need for vaccinated.

Some of us talked separately and just smack our face. So, like it or not vaccination need to be make mandatory at least by Business. Nothing more incentivied most people on something asside how it's affecting their wallets.
Every survey/opinion poll done in the western world Pre-vaccines, suggested around 60-70% of people would get vaccinated without hesitation, another 20-30% were unsure but could be convinced (carrot/stick) and the remaining 5-10% would never get it.

The vaccine coverage in countries such as Australia follows this trend, around 90-95% of people eligible (over 12 years old) have been vaccinated. The widespread use of vaccine mandates seems to have worked to encourage the 20-30% of people that were unsure, to get vaccinated.


So the person you are talking about probably fits into the 5-10% who will never do it. I’ve also met a couple of people like this. They believe so strongly in saying no, they’re even quitting jobs and their children are unable to attend on campus university lectures etc. Nothing the government can do will change their mind. Nothing society says (cultural/peer pressure) will change their mind either.

The Quebec government is now charging a hospital bed surcharge on unvaccinated patients.
So should we impose more restrictions and use heavier penalties (such as the hospital charge mentioned above) to convince them?

Last year I thought “Yes!, I’m doing the right thing, why shouldn’t they?” After all, it’s for the good of society right?

However as time has gone on and more rules have been imposed, the less I agree with my past self. The risk from heavier penalties and stricter rules is the unintended consequences.

The people who through no fault of their own, end up on the “wrong side” of the system or rules intended to protect them from COVID. At the end of the day, what we are doing is discriminating against people because of something they do or don’t have (in this case a vaccine).

As an expat Aussie, I have spent much of the last two years looking with frustration and disappointment at my country as they imposed various rules on citizens to prevent the spread of COVID. One of which was the border international border closure.

No, it was never “closed” but the restrictions made it all but impossible to return for the average person or family. The cost for tickets and lack of availability made it impossible for more than 1-2 people to travel, effectively closing the border. Plus at one point the Australian Government applied the Biosecurity Act and threatened jail time for CITIZENS returning from India during their Delta peak. As far as I know, the only country on earth to impose similar restrictions on their own citizens.


Whether you agree or not is irrelevant, by doing this, the Australian government was making their citizens someone else’s problem as they became stuck in various parts of the world. One of the fundamental reasons for “freedom of access” provisions for citizens comes from this issue, one country shouldn’t lock out its own citizens, thereby imposing a burden on another country.

“No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country”
(From various UN and international law documents)

I agree with the general strategy of restricting arrivals and preventing the arrival of disease on to an island nation like Australia (or NZ). Let me make that clear, I agree with the general strategy. It plays to our geographical strengths.

But, it is a perfect example of what I mean about having to be careful with the various public health rules and mandates being applied around the world. In this case 10’s of thousands of people were effected. Even now, an estimated 20,000 people are stuck outside Western Australia after they delayed their border opening.


I also recently experienced these unintended consequences because I didn’t fit in the rules. Despite being vaccinated and happy to do so, because of a recent COVID infection I was unable to access a government service because I couldn’t obtain a negative PCR (you can test positive for months after symptoms go away). I had done what I was told, but was denied access through no fault of my own.


To summarise, we need to be careful about discrimination against anyone. That includes the unvaccinated. Rules need to be crafted to encourage people to get vaccinated in higher risk settings. But we also need easy access to vaccination hubs to provide encouragement to keep people vaccinated as boosters become available. Carrot and stick. But vaccinated or not, we are all still people, we are all still worthy of compassion and access to health care or government services. The key is finding the balance
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Every survey/opinion poll done in the western world Pre-vaccines, suggested around 60-70% of people would get vaccinated without hesitation, another 20-30% were unsure but could be convinced (carrot/stick) and the remaining 5-10% would never get it.

The vaccine coverage in countries such as Australia follows this trend, around 90-95% of people eligible (over 12 years old) have been vaccinated. The widespread use of vaccine mandates seems to have worked to encourage the 20-30% of people that were unsure, to get vaccinated.


So the person you are talking about probably fits into the 5-10% who will never do it. I’ve also met a couple of people like this. They believe so strongly in saying no, they’re even quitting jobs and their children are unable to attend on campus university lectures etc. Nothing the government can do will change their mind. Nothing society says (cultural/peer pressure) will change their mind either.



So should we impose more restrictions and use heavier penalties (such as the hospital charge mentioned above) to convince them?

Last year I thought “Yes!, I’m doing the right thing, why shouldn’t they?” After all, it’s for the good of society right?

However as time has gone on and more rules have been imposed, the less I agree with my past self. The risk from heavier penalties and stricter rules is the unintended consequences.

The people who through no fault of their own, end up on the “wrong side” of the system or rules intended to protect them from COVID. At the end of the day, what we are doing is discriminating against people because of something they do or don’t have (in this case a vaccine).

As an expat Aussie, I have spent much of the last two years looking with frustration and disappointment at my country as they imposed various rules on citizens to prevent the spread of COVID. One of which was the border international border closure.

No, it was never “closed” but the restrictions made it all but impossible to return for the average person or family. The cost for tickets and lack of availability made it impossible for more than 1-2 people to travel, effectively closing the border. Plus at one point the Australian Government applied the Biosecurity Act and threatened jail time for CITIZENS returning from India during their Delta peak. As far as I know, the only country on earth to impose similar restrictions on their own citizens.


Whether you agree or not is irrelevant, by doing this, the Australian government was making their citizens someone else’s problem as they became stuck in various parts of the world. One of the fundamental reasons for “freedom of access” provisions for citizens comes from this issue, one country shouldn’t lock out its own citizens, thereby imposing a burden on another country.

“No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country”
(From various UN and international law documents)

I agree with the general strategy of restricting arrivals and preventing the arrival of disease on to an island nation like Australia (or NZ). Let me make that clear, I agree with the general strategy. It plays to our geographical strengths.

But, it is a perfect example of what I mean about having to be careful with the various public health rules and mandates being applied around the world. In this case 10’s of thousands of people were effected. Even now, an estimated 20,000 people are stuck outside Western Australia after they delayed their border opening.


I also recently experienced these unintended consequences because I didn’t fit in the rules. Despite being vaccinated and happy to do so, because of a recent COVID infection I was unable to access a government service because I couldn’t obtain a negative PCR (you can test positive for months after symptoms go away). I had done what I was told, but was denied access through no fault of my own.


To summarise, we need to be careful about discrimination against anyone. That includes the unvaccinated. Rules need to be crafted to encourage people to get vaccinated in higher risk settings. But we also need easy access to vaccination hubs to provide encouragement to keep people vaccinated as boosters become available. Carrot and stick. But vaccinated or not, we are all still people, we are all still worthy of compassion and access to health care or government services. The key is finding the balance
I can accept the argument that some of the current containment measures are no longer needed or were never useful but when it comes to anti vaccination morons, I have no problem imposing penalties and inconvenience on them. They are needlessly tying up valuable hospital capacity and are largely responsible for the massive elective surgery backlogs. These backlogs in many cases will result in patients dying due to the delays. The only positive about anti vaxers is their departure thus improving the gene pool.
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I think a lot of opinions about vaccinations are way too simplistic.
Mandates.....hmmm, difficult. I am still of the opinion that you should have a right to be vaxxed if you want, and a right not to if you want. I'm 2x vaxxed, caught covid, and had some muscle pain, a headache and a raised heart rate for 1 day, the aches lasted about 3 days. Now my 2nd dose was in April last year. I now cannot return to work until I have a booster.
But all research advises that a booster is not nessasary for at least 3 months after contracting covid, and natural immunity is good for around 6-7 months. I have no problem getting the booster, but would prefer to wait another 2 months.
Anyway, the stats are pretty revealing as too who the worst effected are.Screenshot_20220129-122911_Facebook.jpg
 

tonnyc

Well-Known Member
Be careful of looking at the casualties number and comparing the mortality numbers with each other. Mortality number should be converted first into a percentage of its own group and then compared.

Here's an illustrative example using hypothetical numbers for a hypothetical disease.

Say we have a population of 1000 people, of which 78% has been fully vaccinated. Now, let's say that 3% of the vaccinated people got sick while 5% of the unvaccinated people got sick. That's 23 people vs. 11 people. Now let's say 5% of the sick people who has been vaccinated dies while 10% of the unvaccinated ones who got sick dies. So out of the vaccinated people 1 dies, and out of the unvaccinated ones 1 dies too.

If you look only at the number of people who died, you will see 1 and 1 and think that vaccinated and unvaccinated people dies at the same rate.

However, the correct way of reading the statistics is that 1 out 780 vaccinated people died while 1 out 220 unvaccinated people died.

The above is an example using a hypothetical scenario. I don't know what the actual statistics for COVID-19 for New South Wales is, but to get the full picture one can't just tell this many people died. One must also tell the size of each groups. Otherwise you will mislead the audience.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
78% is actually the fully vaccinated (two doses) proportion of the population of Australia. Assuming that's the same in NSW the relative risk of dying given the NSW Health figures above is 0.49 for the population as a whole, 0.75 for the unvaccinated, & 0.45 for those with two or three doses. But don't forget who has & has not been vaccinated. The unvaccinated are heavily biased toward the young, who are at much lower risk of dying. Given that, & looking at the ages of those who died, it appears that the age-adjusted difference in the risk of death between the vaccinated & unvaccinated must be much higher than that.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
I guess COVID will become an :pannual shot just like flu. Hopefully a combination shot evolves, With the price of fuel, us old farts want one stop visits.

 
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