Modern CIWS systems

[Albedo]

I don't know how capable the 30mm would be for anything faster than a large UAS or helicopter. The best information I could find was with the UK's Automated Small Calibre Gun which they will fit on their Type 26. Assuming CSC uses the same system then it's going to be ok for UAS and other slow flyers. But for killing small boat this would be great as that's really what it's designed for.

30mm Machine Gun System

The 30mm Machine Gun System (MGS) offers superior capability in defending against multiple threats, including unmanned aerial systems (UAS).

www.baesystems.com

https://www.rafael.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Typhoon-Mk-30c-1.pdf

The RCN datasheet for the CSC lists BAE as the 30mm gun supplier so it's likely going to be the BAE 30mm Machine Gun System which seems to be the North American distribution of the Rafael Typhoon Mk-30c rather than the MSI DS30M. The marketing angle for the 30 mm Typhoon over the previous 25mm Typhoon is improved C-UAS capability due to 30mm air burst munitions, higher max elevations for the mount, and newer tracking algorithms, but as you say, it'll be most effective against FIAC using super-cavitating swimmer rounds.

127mm with Hyper Velocity projectiles are being considered for missile defense because of their rapid time to intercept and ability to maneuver. Not sure how effective that would be, given skin-on-skin contact would likely be required unless they are making HVP's with explosive heads now.

https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2014/armaments/WedFox.pdf

According to slide 16, only the railgun HVP was supposed to have a KE warhead, while HVP for powder guns would have HE warheads. Sadly, HVP seems to be cancelled now.

Hanwa and LIG NEX 1 are designing and building competing CIWS built around the GAU-8 30mm gatling gun for the ROKN. Both will have an AESA radar and an electro-optical targeting system (EOTS).

MADEX 2021: LIG Nex1, Hanwha Systems showcase competing designs for RoKN's CIWS-II programme

South Korean companies LIG Nex1 and Hanwha Systems have showcased models of the close-in weapon systems (CIWSs) each of them is proposing to meet the Republic of Korea...

www.janes.com

These will be interesting and if they come to fruition with offer a viable alternative to what's available now.

It's great that someone is taking the initiative to try to develop a modern take on the Phalanx/Goalkeeper. The timeline seems long though since the article says the 'CIWS II' won't even complete development until December 2030, which means it could be the mid-2030s before the 'CIWS II' is fielded in numbers and reaches FOC. By the time it's fielded, evolving threats may have degraded it's effectiveness and alternatives like DEW may already be available.

That radar/EOIR sensor package seems to be the big leap forward here. Married to a SeaRAM, DEW, or similar it could be a very nice inclusion on a ship that doesn't want/.isn't able to integrate its own sensors to the CIWS.

It'll be interesting to see how CIWS evolves for lower-end HVU like AORs to meet the increasing threat environment. Do they continue to be treated like auxiliary non-combatants, heavily relying on other ships to protect them, and just have their 1 or 2 bolt-on Phalanx replaced by 1 or 2 bolt-on SeaRAM or 'CIWS II' or do they need to have more robust self-protection capabilities with a 3D air search radar, CMS, EW, decoys, and longer-range effectors? For the RCN, the Protecteur-class seems to lean toward the later philosophy being equipped with a Sea Giraffe AMB, CMS330, EW, and decoys. They are going to have 2 x Phalanx on delivery, but the sensor and combat management fit is ready to support CAMM if ExLS launchers are added.

 

[Ananda]

Xavier on Nexter 40mm naval rapid fire system (at least I presume it is 40mm, I don't speak French). Another CIWS come to market. The video shown also multiple ammo the system can use.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Xavier on Nexter 40mm naval rapid fire system (at least I presume it is 40mm, I don't speak French). Another CIWS come to market. The video shown also multiple ammo the system can use.

Yes it is the GIAT/Nexter Rapidfire 40 mm, the first one built.
I don't know if it is the first prototype or the first production gun, because French is also not my language.

Anyway thanks for sharing, this is the first time i see it in real on video and not a computer animation one.

 

[Ananda]

Anyway thanks for sharing, this is the first time i see it in real on video and not a computer animation one.

The result of Polaris exercise according to Marine Nationale source, shown one of weakneses of their fleet in term of CIWS and other anti missile counter measures. French will use their stuff as much as possible. So I guess this's part of their drive to cover more on CIWS.

Seems before Marine Nationale planners think their Mistral base system will be enough. Perhaps the results of Polaris shown them, they have to do more.

 

[spoz]

Provided my French is still up to it, and I did miss some of it because they weren’t speaking particularly clearly, it seems it’s the maritime prototype. They do, however say they are ready to deliver it; although there wasn’t any discussion of the certification stage or process that I got. The words are slightly ambiguous; possibly deliberately

 

[ngatimozart]

Provided my French is still up to it, and I did miss some of it because they weren’t speaking particularly clearly, it seems it’s the maritime prototype. They do, however say they are ready to deliver it; although there wasn’t any discussion of the certification stage or process that I got. The words are slightly ambiguous; possibly deliberately

If the rate of fire is pretty quick, it'd be a nasty bugger.

 

[Big_Zucchini]

This seems to be more of a marketing for the CTA 40 gun, rather than a CIWS system in itself. After the failure of Ajax which leaves it in a state of limbo, France is alone in using CT 40mm ammo, making it exotic and logistically risky.

 

[JohnJT]

If the rate of fire is pretty quick, it'd be a nasty bugger.

The maximum rate of fire is 200rds/min:

https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/default/files/database/document/2020-10/RAPIDFire%20Naval%20Datasheet%202018-10%20%C2%A9Thales.pdf

 

[ngatimozart]

The maximum rate of fire is 200rds/min:

https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/default/files/database/document/2020-10/RAPIDFire%20Naval%20Datasheet%202018-10%20%C2%A9Thales.pdf

For a 40mm gun that's not half bad.

 

[Ananda]

Yes, 200 rounds a minute for 40mm gun is not bad and definetely can act as choice for Naval CIWS. More important also the choice of the ammo.

Rheinmetall

Our air defence systems Oerlikon Millennium Gun, Oerlikon Searanger and Oerlikon Seaguard are specially adapted for layered naval air defence tasks.

www.rheinmetall-defence.com

If we compare it to Rheinmettal Millenium Gun, the rate of singgle shot rapid fire is also 200 round per minutes. This is the gun that recently getting more traction in the market as Naval CIWS and Ground Interceptors for Air Base shield.

Moreover for French is giving them indigenous choices (which for Frenchie defense planners very politically important) CIWS, rather just depend on Mistral.

 

[ngatimozart]

Yes, 200 rounds a minute for 40mm gun is not bad and definetely can act as choice for Naval CIWS. More important also the choice of the ammo.

Rheinmetall

Our air defence systems Oerlikon Millennium Gun, Oerlikon Searanger and Oerlikon Seaguard are specially adapted for layered naval air defence tasks.

www.rheinmetall-defence.com

If we compare it to Rheinmettal Millenium Gun, the rate of singgle shot rapid fire is also 200 round per minutes. This is the gun that recently getting more traction in the market as Naval CIWS and Ground Interceptors for Air Base shield.

Moreover for French is giving them indigenous choices (which for Frenchie defense planners very politically important) CIWS, rather just depend on Mistral.

The only trouble with the French is their tendency to price gouge and how good will their logistics and support be? If the A400m, Tiger ARH, and NH90 are any example not good. Yes I know those three are multinational programs, but the French do have a lot of say in them, and the Germans definitely aren't organising them.

 

[Tomte47]

For a 40mm gun that's not half bad.

Im a novice but it seems rather lackluster when a 70 year old bofors 40mm L/70 can do 330 rounds per minute and the 57mm do 220 ?
What am i missing ?

Edit: Nvm just realized you were talking about single shot rapid fire.

 

[STURM]

when a 70 year old bofors 40mm L/70 can do 330 rounds per minute and the 57mm do 220 ?
What am i missing ?

I could be wrong but I can't see what different this makes. Fitted with 3P ammo the Bofors Mk3; even with just 220 rounds per minute; provide a very effective capability against ASMs. Also the L/70 may have first appeared in the 1950's but it has benefited from various upgrades since then.

 

[Underway]

Im a novice but it seems rather lackluster when a 70 year old bofors 40mm L/70 can do 330 rounds per minute and the 57mm do 220 ?
What am i missing ?

Edit: Nvm just realized you were talking about single shot rapid fire.

The gun is only part of the weapon system. The round that's fired is becoming extremely important. 3P ammunition is very good with the 57mm Bofors and 40mm Bofors rate of fire, you can create some fire patterns (and fire mode combinations between gated proximity, gated proximity impact priority and timed) that have an excellent chance of catching air targets, particularly ones on a closing bearing. 3P has about a 400m squared kill box on the 57mm.

As a CIWS I'm sure the 40mm (like the Bofors) could work. It has a longer range than most gun-based CIWS out there so it will be able to begin the engagement further from the ship giving more chances to get a hit.

 

[kato]

With a bit tongue-in-cheek here's the CIWS that will go on all German Puma infantry fighting vehicles from next year, Rheinmetall's TSWA as presented in its final development form at Eurosatory.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537063773483171840

And yes, operationally it is a fully integrated CIWS. For ground targets. TSWA's intended operation is to be able to clear out the area behind a Puma from enemy troops before troops disembark - out to small arms range, within a few seconds.

For this purpose it carries two 40x46mm MV/LV grenade launchers, one in the form of 18 stacked long barrels for non-lethal ammunition, the other as a rotating launcher magazine with 18 shots for lethal ammunition including programmable airburst.

 

[Ananda]

Just put the video on Xavier english version of Nexter-Thales 40mm rapid gun. Clearly Nexter aim this as dual purpose CIWS and Rapid Naval Gun.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

With this MoU, LIG Nex1 will secure a longer life of the Goalkeeper within the South-Korean navy.

LIG Nex1 and Thales Ink MOU for Naval Weapon Systems MRO - Naval News

LIG Nex1 and Thales Netherlands have signed a Memorandum of Understand (MOU) on Maintenance, Repair and Operations (MRO) and performance improvement for ship-mounted core weapon systems at the “2022 Farnborough International Airshow” held in London, UK.

www.navalnews.com

LIG Nex1 opened a new Goalkeeper CIWS maintenance facility in South Korea in 2019, and i expect they will also be able to take care of Goalkeepers from other navies.

 

[koxinga]

With this MoU, LIG Nex1 will secure a longer life of the Goalkeeper within the South-Korean navy.

LIG Nex1 and Thales Ink MOU for Naval Weapon Systems MRO - Naval News

LIG Nex1 and Thales Netherlands have signed a Memorandum of Understand (MOU) on Maintenance, Repair and Operations (MRO) and performance improvement for ship-mounted core weapon systems at the “2022 Farnborough International Airshow” held in London, UK.

www.navalnews.com

LIG Nex1 opened a new Goalkeeper CIWS maintenance facility in South Korea in 2019, and i expect they will also be able to take care of Goalkeepers from other navies.

The Goalkeeper CIWS is a legacy system and this contract is just to ensure servicability till their new CIWS comes into service. The other users will probably transition out of that system at some point.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

According to the manufacturers, RAPIDFire is the only system capable of defeating all types of threats, including personal watercraft, free-floating mines, ships, loitering munitions, unmanned aerial systems, fighter jets, attack helicopters and missiles at ranges of up to 4,000 metres. So its seems to be a real multi-purpose CIWS. I just wonder if it is also capable to take down sea-skimming anti-ship missiles.

As we already know the first two French Navy ship classes set to be fitted with this new close in weapon system (CIWS) are the Chevallier-class replenishment tankers (BRF) and the future class of OPV (currently known as the patrouilleurs océaniques program). On the BRF, the RAPIDFire will be coupled with a radar provided by the Danish manufacturer Terma, but it is unclear to which systems it will be coupled on the future patrouilleurs océaniques.

Nexter and Thales moving towards RAPIDFire CIWS first delivery - Naval News

Nexter and Thales are exhibiting the RAPIDFire system in its final configuration on the Nexter booth at Euronaval 2022. The delivery and integration of the first systems on a French Navy vessel is expected in early 2023.

www.navalnews.com

 

[ngatimozart]

According to the manufacturers, RAPIDFire is the only system capable of defeating all types of threats, including personal watercraft, free-floating mines, ships, loitering munitions, unmanned aerial systems, fighter jets, attack helicopters and missiles at ranges of up to 4,000 metres. So its seems to be a real multi-purpose CIWS. I just wonder if it is also capable to take down sea-skimming anti-ship missiles.

As we already know the first two French Navy ship classes set to be fitted with this new close in weapon system (CIWS) are the Chevallier-class replenishment tankers (BRF) and the future class of OPV (currently known as the patrouilleurs océaniques program). On the BRF, the RAPIDFire will be coupled with a radar provided by the Danish manufacturer Terma, but it is unclear to which systems it will be coupled on the future patrouilleurs océaniques.

Nexter and Thales moving towards RAPIDFire CIWS first delivery - Naval News

Nexter and Thales are exhibiting the RAPIDFire system in its final configuration on the Nexter booth at Euronaval 2022. The delivery and integration of the first systems on a French Navy vessel is expected in early 2023.

www.navalnews.com

It's French and today's Trafalgar Day, in remembrance of Lord, Admiral Nelson's thrashing of the French Fleet at the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805.

Well it's a 40mm round with smart ammo so it should be capable of knocking down sea skimming AShM. If it isn't then the Marine Nationale and RN should be asking for their money back. My only concern would be is if its rate of fire is high enough, that's all. Rheinmettall make the same claims about their 35mm Millennium Gun out to 3,500m and we know that works. Rheinmettall have also shown that it takes down small UAVs as well.