Military Aviation News and Discussion

swerve

Super Moderator

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
A short article on the estimated cost for a NGAD fighter (twice that of a F-35, at least) but with comments on development and life cycle costs being better. Really have to wonder how many can be built at that price point, especially with a planned acquisition of 100-200 B-21 Raiders given the size of the current annual US deficit and a very uncertain global economic outlook.

 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
A short article on the estimated cost for a NGAD fighter (twice that of a F-35, at least) but with comments on development and life cycle costs being better. Really have to wonder how many can be built at that price point, especially with a planned acquisition of 100-200 B-21 Raiders given the size of the current annual US deficit and a very uncertain global economic outlook.

NGADF....with a price tag higher than the F-22 and more than double than the F-35.... keeping in mind that defence programs on that scale always end up in enormous cost overruns and delays, i have the feeling that this will end up in a financial nightmare.

Besides that, 100-200 B21 strategic bombers, that sounds so unrealistic.


Another cost overruns and delay project: the VC-25B Air Force One program.


The VC-25B Air Force One program saw the largest charge, totaling $660 million. This stemmed from schedule delays, rising supply costs and higher costs to finalize technical
requirements.
 
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John Fedup

The Bunker Group
NGADF....with a price tag higher than the F-22 and more than double than the F-35.... keeping in mind that defence programs on that scale always end up in enormous cost overruns and delays, i have the feeling that this will end up in a financial nightmare.

Besides that, 100-200 B21 strategic bombers, that sounds so unrealistic.


Another cost overruns and delay project: tgw VC-25B Air Force One program.


The VC-25B Air Force One program saw the largest charge, totaling $660 million. This stemmed from schedule delays, rising supply costs and higher costs to finalize technical
requirements.
The delayed 777X might be an even bigger issue for Boeing. WRT NGAD, hard to say how the economics will work out. Apparently the theory is advanced digital design techniques will allow for less expensive development costs thus allowing for small builds of 100 plus jets on a more frequent basis keeping the high end fleet up to date and minimizing expensive upgrades on 15 year old plus jets. Time will tell if this ideal works.
 

ngatimozart

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  • #586
The delayed 777X might be an even bigger issue for Boeing. WRT NGAD, hard to say how the economics will work out. Apparently the theory is advanced digital design techniques will allow for less expensive development costs thus allowing for small builds of 100 plus jets on a more frequent basis keeping the high end fleet up to date and minimizing expensive upgrades on 15 year old plus jets. Time will tell if this ideal works.
Still going to be expensive and what allied or friendly nation will be able to afford US$200 million flyaway cost per aircraft in 2022 dollars. Take Australia that's 75 aircraft @ AU$280 million ea = AU$21 billion just for the flyaway. There would probably be another AU$12 billion at least in the usual maintenance, simulators, trainings, manuals, maintenance contracts, etc. That's a lot of steak and cheese pies.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Colombia’s Air Force has chosen a mix of TA-50 and FA-50 Golden Eagles as its next jet trainers.

The Air Force plans to acquire at least 20 advanced jet trainers with air-to-air and air-to-ground combat capabilities under a project estimated to be worth $600 million.

Colombia is buying new aircraft to replace its Cessna A-37B Dragonfly twin-engine, light-attack jets, which were retired in June 2021. They were used in both counterinsurgency missions and as tactical trainers. The new aircraft are also expected to temporarily fill a capability gap left by the obsolete and aging fleet of Kfir fighterjets. The Air Force is to begin retiring its Kfirs in 2023.

 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Brazil is planning to order four Saab JAS 39E jets in addition to the 36 already purchased in 2014 under a $4,7 billion contract. The country is also considering ordering another batch of at least 30 F-39E fighters — the local designation of the JAS 39E Gripen NG.


Some more Saab Gripen developments.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
An update on the KC-46 saga. Apparently the Air Force will be picking up an unknown portion of the cost for the vision upgrade. Must be a relief to Boeing given the huge losses from the tanker replacement program. Maybe a window at the back of the plane for the boom operator would have been a better idea.:) How is boom operation in the MRTT different?
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Well if China turns a satellite around to look at this mock-up exotic jet used in TopGun 2, I guess I will have to visit a theatre and watch this movie!

I wouldn't be surprised if they already tried to copy and imitate this design, based on satellite images....and only stopped the project after they found out its just a fake design for a film.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
There has been much debate over the A-10’s future, USAF would be happy to dump it, the US Army and Congress would like to keep it. The CAS role and the big gun’s limited performance against modern armour are valid negatives in a near peer confrontation. However the A-10’s CPFH is a real positive and as the attachment suggests, its under the wing weapons capability is impressive for JASSM and MALD.
 

Terran

Well-Known Member
There has been much debate over the A-10’s future, USAF would be happy to dump it, the US Army and Congress would like to keep it. The CAS role and the big gun’s limited performance against modern armour are valid negatives in a near peer confrontation. However the A-10’s CPFH is a real positive and as the attachment suggests, its under the wing weapons capability is impressive for JASSM and MALD.
Click bait title is click bait.
No amount of work could ever “Stealth” an A10.
however minus the click bait but cool fan art.
Basically the gist is that some want to arm A10 with Stand off precision attack weapons. Thing is I am not sure that such an investment is worth it. The gun in testing could still damage an MBT but it’s still coming at the cost of opening up for attack by SHORAD systems. The emphasis shift to SOWs would buy back survivability but it’s like what has happened with B52. It’s a shift from its original role and more and more just a missile dispensary on wings. Wings that are getting replaced. A10 is probably the most exquisite Counter Insurgency Aircraft ever built. But if the aim is now just to haul and drop SOWs I would rather a drone or something along the lines of a beefed up Textron Airland Scorpion.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

Put it in this thread. I thought going to put in East Asia thread or JASDF thread. However decided to put it here cause it is basically Japan green light to export Air Force related items.

Japan put 12 nations as export target, mostly in Asia-Pacific region. Clearly this is related to Japan defense diplomatic effort in region. However what kind of items that Japan can export ?

For Frigates, Japan already going to Indonesia and other ASEAN members for 30FFM family. Can they offer F2 (as this Nikkei article speculate) ? F2 is basically upgrade version for F-16 and more build to accommodate Maritime defense. I can see attraction of F2 for some in ASEAN.

However F2 is expensive stuff as cost to build hamper with limited population. Still Japanese from what I heard when offering 30FFM package to Indonesia, also provide attractive financing packages and price flexibility.

So let's see how this can be develope by the Japanese.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member

Put it in this thread. I thought going to put in East Asia thread or JASDF thread. However decided to put it here cause it is basically Japan green light to export Air Force related items.

Japan put 12 nations as export target, mostly in Asia-Pacific region. Clearly this is related to Japan defense diplomatic effort in region. However what kind of items that Japan can export ?

For Frigates, Japan already going to Indonesia and other ASEAN members for 30FFM family. Can they offer F2 (as this Nikkei article speculate) ? F2 is basically upgrade version for F-16 and more build to accommodate Maritime defense. I can see attraction of F2 for some in ASEAN.

However F2 is expensive stuff as cost to build hamper with limited population. Still Japanese from what I heard when offering 30FFM package to Indonesia, also provide attractive financing packages and price flexibility.

So let's see how this can be develope by the Japanese.
The Mitsubishi F2 has a high per-piece-price, and production ended in 2011. So i don't expect restart of the production will be economical attractive for export.

Selling second hand aircrafts will also be unattractive, there are a lot of components/equipment differences with the F-16, like the radar, cockpit instruments, ECM-, communication and navigation systems. The engine from the F2 for example is a General Electric F110, while most F-16s in ASEAN-service use the ones from Pratt&Whitney as far as i know.

The military aircraft with the most export potential is still the Kawasaki C-2 in my opinion.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
Agreed on that. I put F2 as Nikei article put it on speculation list. I do agree C-2 export effort is more practicall for Japan to pursue. However actually Japan already toying with C-2 and US-2 export for sometime, as they are considered transport/non-lethal military export.

Thus this recent regulations on more lethal technology military export that come to some interesting speculations. Their missiles also already set to their own sensors and radars. Thus they have to sell the wholle packages.

Asside they restart F-2 production lines, I'm bit confused on what can they offer (as military lethal/offensive) products to export market ? F-3 will take at least a decade to mature. That's on optimistic scenario time line.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
The Mitsubishi F2 has a high per-piece-price, and production ended in 2011. So i don't expect restart of the production will be economical attractive for export.
IIRC the high unit price was because few were produced. The marginal price wasn't very high.

One has to be very careful when discussing prices of military aircraft to make sure that quoted prices are on the same, or at least a similar, basis. I recall people claiming that aircraft A was half the price of aircraft B, for example, when the price of A was ex-factory, excluding GFE, & B was contract price for fully-equipped aircraft including spares, manuals, training & a period of support.

But yes, I don't see re-starting F-2 production as practical.
 

ngatimozart

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  • #598
If you have watched the 2nd Top Gun movie you will be familiar with Darkstar. It was designed by the Skunk Works for the movie and interestingly enough the Skunk Works say that "Darkstar may not be real, but its capabilities are."

1654242616111.png
Skunk Works On How They Brought Top Gun: Maverick's Darkstar To Life (thedrive.com)

So that's why this post is in here and not the Off Topic section. I haven't seen the movie yet so I had better get my a into g.
 

Terran

Well-Known Member
Well it’s clearly based off the pitch LM has been making for the so called “SR72” Hypersonic recon/Bomber.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
The war between Armenia and Azerbaijan has proved that loitering weaponsystems are very capable and practical on the battlefield, and now Northrop Grumman has disclosed details on its embryonic development of a new ‘sprint' loitering weapon system, designated Jackal.





The last week there are several military aeroplanes crashed around the world.
Here there are two of them, and a third article about an incident with an F-16.

On 3 June 2022, at around 14:30 hrs LT, a US Navy F/A-18E Hornet crashed in a remote, unpopulated area near Trona (CA). Unfortunately the pilot was killed in the accident.



A Royal Jordanian Air Force Grob G120TP two-seat turboprop primary training aircraft, crashed on 5 June 2022 near the town of Ramtha, Irbid, unfortunately resulting in the death of its two pilots. The RJAF has sixteen G120TPs in its fleet as a replacement for the Slingsby T67M260s, two of them have now been written off.


On 6 June 2022, a Chung-Hua Min Guo Kong Jun (RoCAF, Republic of China Air Force) F-16A Fighting Falcon rubbed the runway with it's nose during landing at Honolulu International Airport (HI). The pilot was aware that the nose landing gear failed to come out and used the fighter's tail hook to slow down.

The F-16 was on its way back to Taiwan to be upgraded to the F-16V variant, but now it will also get a corrective operation on its nose.

 
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