Merkava for Singapore ?

bdique

Member
Before we jump in and start talking about light tanks, I think one of the major issues that Singapore faces is an increasingly urbanised environment that would set the stage for future battles. It is hard to imagine a light tank being able to pull off a Thunder Run. It may have the firepower (assuming it is mounted with a 120mm main gun), but with add-on armour slapped on to survive the high-threat environment, will the light tank (with correspondingly smaller engine) have the same performance as a similarly equipped MBT?

Also, you can't just air-drop light tanks into combat without suitable infantry support. I can create a tank so tiny that it can drive off the back of a CH-47, but something's gonna be sacrificed - armour, firepower, performance, range, payload, amongst others. OPSSG has implied that our LSV Mk2 currently functions like a stripped down "light-tank" for SAF's heli-inserted battalions. Personally, I think this current set up is fine, as long as the commander doesn't employ these assets in a stupid way i.e. frontal assault. What a light tank can do, existing battalion assets (organic and non-organic i.e. RSAF) can already do - and more. In essence, I am struggling to understand how a light tank would fit well into SAF's CONOPs.
 
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OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
OPSSG has implied that our LSV Mk2 currently functions like a stripped down "light-tank" for SAF's heli-inserted battalions. Personally, I think this current set up is fine, as long as the commander doesn't employ these assets in a stupid way i.e. frontal assault.
The tactics used must be right, to achieve tactical superiority.

Not quite, as the LSV Mk2s are not able to perform as a substitute for a light-tank in any shape or form. If the LSV Mk2s are inserted just <<distance deleted>> from the beachhead, they can conduct delay operations over <<distance deleted>> (coupled with naval gun fire support from 76mm cannons of RSN vessels supporting the amphibious operation), giving the brigade time to respond to threats to execution of our plans.

Fellow Singaporeans who have read the SAF's heliborne and <<delete name>> manuals will know that heliborne operations can be used to support an amphibious operation.

From a tactics standpoint, the heli-insertion of the LSV Mk2s will enable these vehicles to engage in hit and run tactics <<distance deleted>> from their insertion LZ (and also create obstacles on the enemy reinforcement routes). In essence they can trade space, for time, when facing an aggressor armoured threat provided under <<scenario deleted>>. By trading space for time, they protect the beachhead at moments of critical vulnerability during different phases and provide early warning on the appearance of enemy armour.

The above is all I am willing to say on tactics - even Malaysian and Indonesian staff officers will find what I have said to be crystal clear (because I am sure they can fill in the blanks themselves). And I really don't like to provide too much clarity at a tactical level.
What a light tank can do, existing battalion assets (organic and non-organic i.e. RSAF) can already do - and more. In essence, I am struggling to understand how a light tank would fit well into SAF's CONOPs.
Agreed and if you look at the SAF orbat, the LSV Mk2s fit right into existing support company of the infantry battalions.

BTW, DSTA has a write-up on the LSV Mk2:-

'With the ageing fleet of the Light Strike Vehicles (LSV) in the SAF, DSTA managed the acquisition and delivery of a new fleet of LSV Mark II (MK II). Besides the acquisition of the platform, this multi-disciplinary project involved the integration of the Battlefield Management System, Very High Frequency radios and satellite communications systems, as well as the in service weapons 40mm Automatic Grenade Launcher and Vehicle Launch SPIKE System.

The new LSV MK II delivered by DSTA not only supports greater crew capacity and higher payload, but also enables the operators to fight as an integrated force on the battlefield due to its enhanced network connectivity.

The key challenge for the DSTA team was to integrate the combat systems into the LSV MK II while keeping it lightweight to meet helicopter-lift and air drop requirements. Through weight reviews and iterations of Finite Element Modelling, the team streamlined the prototype successfully and optimised the design of the vehicle space frame to produce a lighter roll cage.

In addition, the team increased the crew capacity from three soldiers in the ageing LSV to six in LSV MK II by relocating the driver from the right hand drive to the front centre seat of the vehicle. Many designconsiderations were reviewed and safety assessments conducted to ensure that the vehicle could be driven with ease on both public roads and cross-country terrains.

Much engineering effort was also spent on enabling the LSV MK II to be configured to different variants for a range of missions. For the weapon variants, the team led and influenced the design of the controller for the electrical mast. To meet the requirements of different safe firing heights needed for the 40mm Automatic Grenade Launcher and Vehicle Launch SPIKE System, the team recommended building the required safety logic in the controller (which is activated by a selector) so that the same hardware can be configured for any of the weapon variants, thereby reducing the logistic footprint. The LSV MK II with enhanced capabilities was commissioned in November during Exercise Wallaby 2013.'​
 
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bdique

Member
The tactics used must be right, to achieve tactical superiority.
OPSSG, firstly thank you for your very insightful post. Although I must say that some deleted stuff...if you are resourceful and patient enough to search the internet, it is possible to make a good guess and fill those blanks in...that's my perspective anyway :)

Not quite, as the LSV Mk2s are not able to perform as a substitute for a light-tank in any shape or form.
In that sense, you are very right, although I was trying to also make the point to Joe Black that the days of the air-dropped armoured vehicle is rather long gone since there are platforms which have neither tracks nor armour, but will nicely fill the anti-armour, anti-personnel role and are still very manoeuvrable. The light tank is unlikely to appear in the SAF ORBAT, let alone one that can be airlifted.

Much engineering effort was also spent on enabling the LSV MK II to be configured to different variants for a range of missions. For the weapon variants, the team led and influenced the design of the controller for the electrical mast. To meet the requirements of different safe firing heights needed for the 40mm Automatic Grenade Launcher and Vehicle Launch SPIKE System, the team recommended building the required safety logic in the controller (which is activated by a selector) so that the same hardware can be configured for any of the weapon variants, thereby reducing the logistic footprint. The LSV MK II with enhanced capabilities was commissioned in November during Exercise Wallaby 2013.'
In essence, the LSV Mk2 can switch weapon systems rather simply, without causing any safety risk to the vehicle crew. This gives the battalion commander an additional tactical flexibility to equip his forces accordingly vis-a-vis expected threats. If my understanding is correct, that's a pretty neat way to keep enemies guessing and on their toes.

---

Anyway the SAF already has the L2SGs, and these MBTs outclass light tanks in nearly all regards. Essentially, what the AMX-13 SM1 tanks could do, the L2SG could do them all, and better. Using this same train of thought, what is it that the Merk4 can do that the L2SG cannot, that would make it feasible for the SAF to incorporate this vehicle type into our ORBAT? How will it value-add the way SAF fights, especially since we already have the L2SG?
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Btw,why does a tiny Island nation need MBTs? Anyone? There are other ways of countering enemy armour.
The armour is also about rapid advance, seize and hold to deal with ballistics, arty etc on the first outer layer
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Btw,why does a tiny Island nation need MBTs? Anyone? There are other ways of countering enemy armour.
In any strategy for defending Singapore, we must embrace apparently contradictory notions (at least on the surface) - as we need to engage difficult partners and yet deter difficult partners at the same time.

Let me repeat what Lee Kuan Yew once said. A small country like Singapore seeks a maximum number of friends, while maintaining the freedom to be itself as a sovereign and independent nation. Both parts of the equation – a maximum number of friends and freedom to be act - are equally important and inter-related. This is why the SAF's mission in furtherance of Singapore's forward defence posture is as follows:-

"To enhance Singapore's peace and security through deterrence and diplomacy, and should these fail, to secure a swift and decisive victory over the aggressor."​

We live in a 3rd world region and we do not delude ourselves in thinking that our neighbours will always act in our country's interest. In fact, conflict promoting agents often hope to retain or gain political power in their own countries. If conflict promoting agents gain power, then many of these agents eventually hope to translate such power into wealth. Less questions are asked and debate is often limited in a time of war or a crisis. The promotion of war or the idea of potential conflict by politicians or generals all over the world (to unite a country under the banner of nationalism or some other rhetoric) against an imagined or real enemy is almost as old as politics itself. This sort of idea is not unique to maritime South East Asia. In fact, the regimes in countries like North Korea and Iran like to promote the idea of ongoing conflict to justify the current regime's hold on power.

The ability to gain or stay in power is good enough reason for irresponsible politicians to promote conflict. It is a matter of historical record.

Between 1962–1966, there was a period of Indonesia-Malaysia confrontation over the future of the island of Borneo. It is called Konfrontasi in Indonesian and Malay. As I previously posted, insurgent Indonesian commandos set off bombs at Orchard Road and various other locations in Singapore during the 'Konfrontasi'. In Singapore alone, there were some 40 bomb attacks over about two years. Most of the targets could by no stretch of the imagination be considered legitimate military objectives. They included schools, hotels, cinemas, bus depots, telephone booths and residences.

While Indonesia-Singapore relations are much improved since that period of the 1960s, it does have its share of problems to be managed. Respected American scholar of Indonesia, the late Dr George McTurnan Kahin, wrote in 1964 while Konfrontasi was still ongoing, that episode of aggression towards its neighbours was the consequence of the "powerful, self-righteous thrust of Indonesian nationalism" and the widespread belief that "because of (the) country's size… it has a moral right to leadership". Time may have given a more sophisticated gloss to this attitude but has not essentially changed it. This attitude lies, for example, behind the outrageous comments by some Indonesian ministers during the haze in June 2013 that Singapore should be grateful for the oxygen Indonesia provides; it is the reason why Indonesians think Singaporeans should take into account their interests and sensitivities without thinking it necessary to reciprocate.

Indonesians, Malaysians and Singaporeans need to understand this -- Singapore (with a population of 5 million and a GDP of US$276.5 billion with a 2012 defence budget of about US$9.7 billion) has no interest in seeing relations with any close neighbour, strained. To give you an idea of the size difference, our immediate neighbours have the following characteristics:-

(i) Indonesia is more a thousand times larger than Singapore in land size (with a population of 242 million and a GDP of US$878.2 billion, with a 2012 defence budget of about US$6.8 billion); and

(ii) Malaysia is more than 470 times larger than Singapore in land size (with a population of 29 million and a GDP of US$303.5 billion, with a 2012 defence budget of about US$4.7 billion).​

I tend to think of Singapore's main battle tanks as a tool for persuasion (in the hard power tool kit of a state that is geographically disadvantaged). They help to persuade any ambitious neighbour that it is not in their interest to engage in overtly hostile acts that we will punish. And we believe that just bombing the capital and bases of an aggressor is not sufficient it itself to persuade the aggressor to cease hostilities. Main battle tanks (MBTs), serving as part of the SAF's ABGs in the Singapore Army Divisions provide military options for our leaders, should the need arise. As our defence minster recently noted, more powerful you are, the less enemies you have - that is why we don't need to think of our neighbours as our enemy - and how they think of us is their choice. On occasion we have been called a 'little red dot', by the Indonesians, which was intended as an insult. Instead of being insulted Singapore retailers now have a range of 'little red dot' merchandise for sale to tourists.

This is also why 'decisive' an important word in the SAF's mission - Singapore's MBTs will move out for war supported by a thousand other armoured vehicles in the first wave. IMO, it is very hard to be decisive in ground warfare without MBTs, as an important node, in the SAF's way of war.
 
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bdique

Member
OPSSG, thank you once again for a very enlightening post! I'll just want to add that SAF espouses a forward defense doctrine, because ringing the island with powerful but static defenses will only result in you defending yourself to death.

Maneuvre warfare (as opposed to attrition warfare) simply put allows you to do more with less, so it is rather unsurprising that SAF can be expected to fight this way. MW's success obviously hinge on having highly mobile ground units, and the MBT, supported by IFVs, ICVs and a host of armoured support vehicles fighting cohesively will neatly fill in this role.

In any case, SAF is no stranger to tanks. Starting with AMX-13 that was upgraded to SM1 standards, the MBT is a natural evolutionary result, especially given the changing threat environment we face i.e. imcreasingly urban environment
 

fireduke86

New Member
Ah yes, although something just occured to me. The present L2SGs should be plugged into the SAF's Battlefield Management System. Their optics should make these MBTs great for updating higher command of the ground situation at the frontline, persistently providing intel updates while being hard to take out.
If I recall correctly, BMS was part of the upgrade and refurbishment package that these former Leopard 2A4s received.
 

nairobian

New Member
OPPSG,I can't quote you yet. Excellent detailed analysis! LKY obviously believed in the maxim,"if you want peace prepare for war." It seems his followers believe it also. IMO,I fully agree-nothing else works.
 

Raffles251

New Member
About this acquisition

I can't say much except: is it be very surprising to all you folks that the Singapore Govt and Military has not announced such an acquisition? There are plenty of other weapon and defence platforms that we have sitting in our Defence Labs and in DSTA that we claim were never purchased or acquired.

Also Singapore doesn't just buy weapon and defence platforms because of practical purposes of deployment (i.e. the debate on whether it makes sense to field Leopard 2SGs together with Merkava Mk IVs; side note: The Leopard 2SG will be slightly faster by 10km/hr, both weigh about 62 to 65 metric tonnes, The Merkava is shorter at 2.66m versus Leopard 2SG ~3.0m making it a more difficult target to hit) however we do often purchase such weapon systems as part of a larger deal for Technology Transfer*. We did this for the M60s which many people are still unaware of today and for many other defence platforms eg. Iron Dome.

I leave it up to you to decide for yourself if Singapore really did make that purchase. After all it was confirmed on the Israeli side that they did make the sale.
However which country in the world will the Israelis be willing to discreetly sell weapons to the extant of keeping the identity a secret? (There aren't many countries with such close ties to Israel and its military)
*Take a hint ;)
 

Raffles251

New Member
With regard to this acquisiton

I can't say much except: would it be very surprising to all you folks that the Singapore Govt and Military has not announced such an acquisition? There are plenty of other weapon and defence platforms that we have sitting in our Defence Labs and in DSTA that we claim that were never purchased or acquired.

Also Singapore doesn't just buy weapon and defence platforms because of practical purposes of deployment (i.e. the debate on whether it makes sense to field Leopard 2SGs together with Merkava Mk IVs; side note: The Leopard 2SG will be slightly faster by 10km/hr, both weigh about 62 to 65 metric tonnes, The Merkava is shorter at 2.66m versus Leopard 2SG ~3.0m making it a more difficult target to hit) however we do often purchase such weapon systems as part of a larger deal for Technology Transfer*. We did this for the M60s which many people are still unaware of today and for many other defence platforms eg. Iron Dome.

I leave it up to you to decide for yourself if Singapore really did make that purchase. After all it was confirmed on the Israeli side that they did make the sale.
However which country in the world will the Israelis be willing to discreetly sell weapons to the extant of keeping the identity a secret? (There aren't many countries with such close ties to Israel and its military)
*Take a hint ;)
 
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