Marine Nationale (French Navy)

[Ananda]

As second of the Rubis class (but first to be decommissioned) was there an issue with the propulsion system (including the reactor) which makes marrying the undamaged propulsion from Perle with the forward section of Saphir simpler/cheaper.

I do suspect similar thing. As the 6th boats of the class of 6, I suspect the condition on Perle reactor is better than Saphir. More over, Perle with Amethyste are two of the class that from beginning being build with Amethyste improve silencing standard.

Eventough Marine Nationale never fully disclose what they're doing with the program (understandbly), I read several analysts that suspect beside changes in hull shape (especially in front) they suspect some adjustments in reactor possibly been done also.

Marine Nationale put Perle on extensive upgrade, shown that they're planning to make Perle as the last of Rubis class being replaced.

 

[Ananda]

Official Announcement on France's New Aircraft Carrier Expected Soon - Naval News

An official announcement on the French Navy's new generation aircraft carrier (PANG) program is expected to be made "soon" by French President Emmanuel Macron, probably by year-end.

www.navalnews.com

Further development news on PANG. Indication that French President will announce the results of PANG program development before year end.

Seems indication so far shown the design that represents the graphics that being prepared by Naval Group. Thus it will be up to 300 meter in length, 70,000 tons , equip with 3 EMALS catapults.
The article above put prediction of CVN with two K22 Reactors. The question will be if this is for one or two CV/CVN.

 

[John Fedup]

Official Announcement on France's New Aircraft Carrier Expected Soon - Naval News

An official announcement on the French Navy's new generation aircraft carrier (PANG) program is expected to be made "soon" by French President Emmanuel Macron, probably by year-end.

www.navalnews.com

Further development news on PANG. Indication that French President will announce the results of PANG program development before year end.

Seems indication so far shown the design that represents the graphics that being prepared by Naval Group. Thus it will be up to 300 meter in length, 70,000 tons , equip with 3 EMALS catapults.
The article above put prediction of CVN with two K22 Reactors. The question will be if this is for one or two CV/CVN.

Two 70,000 ton CVNs with three EMALS, Germany will have to pony up big time to help France get this done. Then both parties need to decide on a navalized FCAS jet. Too bad the UK and France were not on the same page for a CV/CVN years ago, 4 ships between them could have been cost effective.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Hopefully they can extend the operational life of CdG longer than 2038, a navy with aircraft carriers needs actually at least 2 for a continues presence at sea.

Official Announcement on France's New Aircraft Carrier Expected Soon - Naval News

An official announcement on the French Navy's new generation aircraft carrier (PANG) program is expected to be made "soon" by French President Emmanuel Macron, probably by year-end.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The Charles de Gaulle is nuclear powered, so its nothing more than logic to make the replacement also nuclear powered.

France's New Aircraft Carrier Will be Nuclear Powered - Naval News

French President Emmanuel Macron today officially green lighted the construction of a new nuclear-powered aircraft carrier as part of the PANG program. The future flag ship of the Marine Nationale is intended to replace the existing "Charles de Gaulle" around 2038.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Ananda]

The article seems only indicating one PANG CVN as replacement for CDG. Then seems what's been talk before come true. Conventional PANG has potential to be build in pair, but CVN PANG will only be single one, just like current CDG.

Perhaps I'm missing something, since from what I gather Marine Nationale wants to go back to a pair of Carrier just like when they operate Clamanceu and Foch before.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The article seems only indicating one PANG CVN as replacement for CDG. Then seems what's been talk before come true. Conventional PANG has potential to be build in pair, but CVN PANG will only be single one, just like current CDG.

Perhaps I'm missing something, since from what I gather Marine Nationale wants to go back to a pair of Carrier just like when they operate Clamanceu and Foch before.

France had actually to continue with the PA2 (Porte-Avions 2/Aircraft Carrier 2), based on the British Queen Elisabeth class, that was a quite good and cost effective project, but sadly the French governement cancelled the project in 2013.

The Charles de Gaulle is much smaller than the PANG, and directly building a second CdG was a much cheaper solution than now designing and building two new PANGs.

 

[John Fedup]

This site suggests a second CVN is still a possibility. Certainly the future economic climate will influence this perhaps along with some Euro support.

The President of the Republic Announces the Choice of Nuclear Propulsion for the Future Aircraft Carrier of the French Navy

 

[Ananda]

we have several years to think about it, while staying capable of providing an optimized response. What matters today is the confirmation of the program to replace the Charles de Gaulle, and that the contours to be at the rendezvous of 2038.

Copy that from the article. Seems they're going to decide on second carrier if there will be, by the time first steel cut plan in 2025. I gather by that time, the logistics will have to be prepared whether the project will be for single or double carriers.

 

[StobieWan]

Expensive way to do it- the RN ordered all the long lead items for the CVF program in one hit for instance.

I suspect we're talking one carrier

 

[kato]

Seems they're going to decide on second carrier if there will be, by the time first steel cut plan in 2025. I gather by that time, the logistics will have to be prepared whether the project will be for single or double carriers.

France has budget cycles for defence - or rather, tends to be a bit more strict with placing procurement into certain budget cycles. The current Loi de programmation militaire (LPM) runs 2019-2025, and was signed into law in February 2018. While there is an annual defence budget separately signed as a budget law this serves merely to confirm the "military programme" with its overarching 6-year cycle, and at most changes some numbers to push money around.

For the carrier(s) that means that only a very small component (the studies that have been performed now, some development etc) is budgeted for in the current round, while the main procurement for PANG will be in the next budget cycle (for 2025-2031) and the one after that (for 2031-2037). If a second carrier would be bought it would most likely (*) not be decided before that next budget cycle has started in order to bring it into the one after that, and a final decision on it would be highly unlikely before the draft bill for that period is in front of parliament in 2030.

(*) - In French procurement planning if it spans into a future budget cycle they'll usually only sign letters-of-intent for those, not contracts. The LPM will lay out a development plan towards that future budget cycle, mostly describing capability sets and derived systems to be procured (currently "Ambition 2030" in the 2019-2025 LPM, which for the Navy e.g. describes that by then the first SNLE3G should come into service, all Suffren SNA should be in service and FTI should have replaced all fregates legeres, while certain numbers of their predecessor systems will be retained until FOC is established).

 

[ngatimozart]

The French Navy is to acquire 12 “Albatros” Maritime Surveillance and Intervention Aircraft (AVSIMAR) based on the Dassault Falcon 2000LXS executive aircraft. These will replace 5 Falcon 200 Guardian aircraft* and 8 Falcon 50M aircraft**, however the Albatros aircraft are being acquired in 2 tranches with the first being 7 and the second being 5. There is no guarantee that the 2nd tranche will be acquired.

NOTE: These are NOT the Atlantique 2 replacements.

French Navy's Albatros to Set New Maritime Surveillance Standards... Until UAVs Come Into Play - Naval News

Waiting for next gen maritime UAVs, the French Navy will replace its old maritime surveillance aircraft with the new Falcon 2000 Albatros...

www.navalnews.com

*Based on Mystère Falcon 20.
**Based on the Dassault Falcon 50.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The Marine Nationale is sending the Tonnere L9014 and Surcouf F711 to East-Asia.

French Amphibious Ready Group Set Sails for the Indo-Pacific - Naval News

French Navy (Marine Nationale) Mistral-class LHD "Tonnerre" and La Fayette-class frigate "Surcouf" set sails from Toulon naval base this morning to start "MISSION JEANNE D'ARC 2021".

www.navalnews.com

Good opportunity to promote the La Fayette Class to the Indonesians in Sabang.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

A status update of the designprogram of a new class of SSBNs to replace le Triomphant class. Current plans envisage the start of construction of the third generation SSBNs to begin in around 2023 with the first new SSBN to enter service after 2033

Marine nationale : les programmes qui vont façonner la future flotte française | Mer et Marine

La flotte française est engagée dans un vaste plan de renouvellement comme elle n’en connait que tous les trente à quarante ans. En moins d’une décen...

www.meretmarine.com

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1362796714965553153

Sounds really cool.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1362798927930675200

 

[Ananda]

Add the video seems from Xavier site that's been post by Sandhi above. It's in French, which I don't speak. However seems the design for their next Gen SSBN (SNLE3G) already been lock, and they will begin on the next stage. There's part on that video on their next Gen SLBM, which (if not mistaken) shown their war heads have capabilities on doing adjustment on reentry path.

 

[FormerDirtDart]

Some more information regarding Perle. It does seem more likely it will be scrapped. All the more reason to get on with the Barracuda.

End of Fire on Nuclear Attack Submarine Perle

Well it seems that scrapping the Perle won't be happening. Defense News is reporting that the undamaged aft section of the Perle will be removed and welded to the forward section of the decommissioned Saphir. The cost is reported to be around €120 million. The defense ministry would pay €70 million, and €50 million would be covered by a Naval Group insurance payment.

Addition after original post:
Does beg the question though why not just recommission Saphir? As second of the Rubis class (but first to be decommissioned) was there an issue with the propulsion system (including the reactor) which makes marrying the undamaged propulsion from Perle with the forward section of Saphir simpler/cheaper.

A nifty graphic on the FS Perle rebuild

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380789177214636034

I found a much larger/readable version of the graphic (link below) unfortunately I don't speak/read French and am way to lazy at the moment to try and translate it online...lol

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eu-HNgOWQAEHwZc?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

 

[swerve]

Well it seems that scrapping the Perle won't be happening. Defense News is reporting that the undamaged aft section of the Perle will be removed and welded to the forward section of the decommissioned Saphir. The cost is reported to be around €120 million. The defense ministry would pay €70 million, and €50 million would be covered by a Naval Group insurance payment.

Addition after original post:
Does beg the question though why not just recommission Saphir? As second of the Rubis class (but first to be decommissioned) was there an issue with the propulsion system (including the reactor) which makes marrying the undamaged propulsion from Perle with the forward section of Saphir simpler/cheaper.

Saphir's 9 years older, & I think 9 years is quite a long time in the life of a submarine's propulsion system. It could be easier & cheaper to cut them in half & fit Saphir's bow to Perle's rear than to bring Saphir's propulsion up to the standard of Perle's.

 

[kato]

Saphir entered the dismantling process in July 2019 at Cherbourg and was first denuclearized, which by publicized timeframe for the process presumably finished around early 2020.

Denuclearization means that they cut out the entire hull section with the reactor, then welded the remaining sections forward and aft together and put the submarine back in the water to be moored somewhere for later disassembly - which would be the current state of Saphir. The reactor section would be disfunctional and in long-term storage at Homet.

In other words, while the other hull sections can be re-used or cannibalized, Saphir ain't sailing anywhere under her own power.

It is also the simple explanation for why and how they came up with this particular solution that fast: There is an existing, up-to-date current process with Naval Group for cutting up submarines at hull section edges and for reassembling them - and conveniently Saphir as the "process prototype" for this specific submarine design just underwent this process only half a year before the fire and is sitting unused at some quay in Cherbourg as a potential donor.

 

[Ananda]

There is an existing, up-to-date current process with Naval Group for cutting up submarines at hull section edges and for reassembling them - and conveniently Saphir as the "process prototype" for this specific submarine design just underwent this process only half a year before the fire and is sitting unused at some quay in Cherbourg as a potential donor.

Something that I'm still try to find out. Saphir is the second boat and before Amethyst upgrade program. While Pearle is the last boat in the class. I know both Rubis and Saphir already being upgrade to Amethyst standard, however does the electronics and sensors of Saphir will match with all Pearle system.

Or it doesn't matter since this upgrade will take care this matter anyway.

 

[Inverno]

Some more details on the hybridization of the "Perlephir" over at The Drive.
The hull gets a stretch of almost 1,4 meters for better crew accommodation.
No mentioning of any matching problems due to different builds.

Watch Two French Submarine Halves Get Grafted Together In A Remarkable Repair Job