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Juan Carlos / Canberra Class LHD

Discussion in 'Navy & Maritime' started by BOFORS, Aug 24, 2012.

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  1. t68

    t68 Well-Known Member

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    That’s interesting; I believe Osprey can fill niche role for the ADF it would have been more of a direct replacement for DHC-4 Caribou but that’s been decided with C27J, yet we can’t afford a Squadrons worth of CH-47F but people are looking at V-22 Osprey I find it very illogical The AUD$ 513.5 million contract will buy 7 CH-47F Chinook helicopters, 2 Simulators, and associated spares, or roughly AUD$73 million per copy or by the story for Israel would receive five or six V-22s at an estimated price of $70 million each wonder when you add the support structure how much would they cost or the US buy price of USD$65 million per copy but that’s the deal breaker support costs.

    Don’t get me wrong they are impressive and would come in handy not only for troop/cargo movements but if the proposed AAR and AEW aircraft were available a compatible refueling probe were fitted onto ARH and MRH it might be a different story.
     
  2. aussienscale

    aussienscale Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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    They have one dedicated spot aft for them, not sure if we would ever get any, but would more than likely see US kit operate off them from time to time

    Cheers
     
  3. seatmarbella

    seatmarbella Banned Member

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    Because i have seen mentions to the Lhd about being just an auxiliary carrier for keeping pilots qualified, or being a terrible aircraft carrier, i post this link to turkish news paper where is clear that turkish have been talking to Navantia for the use of the Lhd with airplanes, F35b. The Lhd is one of the options, so people have to be aware that they are talking officially about that role for the Lhd.
    For not underestimatiting Lhd capabilities for airplanes, not just auxiliary and not terrible aircraft role if professionals with deep study of the matter choose it to go to a contest with airplanes.

    And the offer is for supporting the amphibious operation also, they talk of 100 trucks or vehicles plus 2 Lcac air cushion amphibious transport, together with the airplanes, so we are talking of compability between them and their operations.

    Major Turkish companies bid for country's first aircraft carrier
     
  4. RobWilliams

    RobWilliams Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I remember reading that article when it came out, wasn't a fan of it to be honest. They're too happy to label this project an "aircraft carrier" project when it just isn't.

    Hell they even got a picture of a USN CVN as the article picture rather than something more appropriate like - I dunno - a picture of the ship they're *actually* going to use as the basis of the design.

    Call me picky, but an LHD isn't an aircraft carrier IMO.
     
  5. t68

    t68 Well-Known Member

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    Now that Príncipe de Asturias is laid up wonder what the plan is now for Juan Carlos. Will they run her with a few Harriers permanently to try and keep their pilots concurrent or still use the old plan to a degree half the time as an assault ship and the other as a carrier?
     
  6. jack412

    jack412 Member

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    Thanks for that, I would imagine it's not on the top priority list too. There seems to be more than enough basic things to do, to get our existing choppers into the LHD system.
    There is a big difference between getting a briefing and putting the money on the table

    As I understand it, after CONOPS it comes down to Sq meters, the Turks can fit it out as a f-35b carrier and limit the choppers to a few
    Even the Spanish running 6 harriers will take a fair bit of space, when you add in all the support.
     
  7. seatmarbella

    seatmarbella Banned Member

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    The turkish call officially the project Lpd, landing platform dock, that stresses the amphibious intention of the ship, but with the requirement of the F35b. But i have seen turkish official charges, minister or so, using the specific words as "aircraft carrier" for the project in contest, apart from the media interpretations of ships.
    Navantia design has supporters in Turkey, if win and Turkey orders F35b or builds them, because they have much industry in it, and also goes for some Lcac, they go impressive.

    With all the F35 involvement by Turkey in industry, is easy to expect them to join the f35b or c club, and probably follow similar arguments to the Uk to choose the f35b.
    If really they want 2 Lhd, they have F35 possibilities for a good amount of b version.
    I know Turkey was analysing the airplane.

    It is a plus in capabilities, with aircraft, with modern warfare, missiles, ranges, speeds, electronics.


    I don´t know but the Harriers have a lot of years yet to come so i hope we see them in the ship, as an aircraft carrier, with all the electronic needed to support that role.


    Also there is the flight deck space to park some f35b without occuping so many sq mts in the hangar or garage. The ship has inclined ramp and f35b has orientating jets, maybe the f35b needs little run to jump with less restrictions...
     
  8. swerve

    swerve Super Moderator

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    The beauty of STOVL is that you don't need to operate the aircraft off the ship permanently to keep the crews current.
     
  9. Blas de Lezo

    Blas de Lezo Member

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  10. seatmarbella

    seatmarbella Banned Member

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    In the video it is seen how a Harrier, probably with little weight of weapons or fuel, jumps from the Lhd just from the 2nd spot, out of 6 spots, so there are 4 spots behind to use them without restrictions, maybe with full weight they need just 2 or 3 spots, but having for example 3 spots free for helos is quite comfort for combinaning aircraft and helos operations. If Harrier makes that i wonder if F35b will do the same, despite more weight also more powerful and different propulsion.
     
  11. Blas de Lezo

    Blas de Lezo Member

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    Spanish Armed Forces - Page 112

    Great pictures of JCI operating 8 AV8´s during recent exercises , pretty decent details of planes and Ship including Mavs and pods. Just some eye food!

    Regards
     
  12. ASSAIL

    ASSAIL Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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    And great food it was Blas. Thanks. I only wish you would sell JC1 and all her aircraft to Australia. I promise we could afford it, on the credit card like everything else!
     
  13. t68

    t68 Well-Known Member

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    Another site is proclaiming that Turkey will build the Juan Carlos LHD has won the Turkish LPD Tender.

    Tried translating the supposed winning annocement could not make heads or tails out of it if it is correct

    http://www.ssm.gov.tr/anasayfa/hizli/duyurular/PressReleases/Sayfalar/20131227_LPDBasinBildiri.aspx

    Savunma Sanayii İcra Komitesi, 26 Aralık 2013 tarihinde, Savunma Sanayii Müsteşarlığı tarafından teklif değerlendirme çalışmaları tamamlanan Havuzlu Çıkarma Gemisi (LPD) Projesi kapsamında, SEDEF Gemi İnşaatı A.Ş. ile sözleşme görüşmelerine başlanması, söz konusu firma ile anlaşma sağlanamaması durumunda sözleşme görüşmelerine ikinci sıradaki DESAN Deniz İnşaat Sanayi A.Ş. ile devam edilmesi kararı almıştır.
    And as translated

    Defense Industry Executive Committee, 26 December 2013, the Defense Industry Undersecretariat work completed by the bid evaluation Landing Platform Dock (LPD) Project, PEARL Ship Building Co. to begin contract negotiations with the said contract negotiations with the company in the event of failure to reach an agreement on the second row DES Marine Construction Industries, Inc. has decided to continue with.
     
  14. RobWilliams

    RobWilliams Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I've read elsewhere that it doesn't specifically say that the JC1 design won the tender, but that a particular shipyard mentioned in the article won and that shipyard is working with Navantia and put forward a proposal based on JC1. Hence why they're saying the JC1 has been picked.

    Bizarre way of going about it though, not to mention the LPD classification.
     
  15. swerve

    swerve Super Moderator

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    I can't find anything useful on the SEDEF website, but the Navantia site says -
    Navantia has previously offered a slightly smaller, flat-deck LHD based on JC1, & I've not seen any details of the proposal to Turkey. I think we'll have to wait & see.
     
  16. RobWilliams

    RobWilliams Super Moderator Staff Member

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    According to DefenseNews, the amphibious force requirements are

    • 1000 troops and personnel
    • 8 utility helicopters
    • 3 UAVs
    • 13 tanks
    • 81 armoured vehicles

    Turkey Selects Local Shipyard for LPD Contract | Defense News | defensenews.com

    Not forgetting that as well as the LPD, the tender also includes the purchase of

    • 4 Landing Craft Mechanised (LCM)
    • 27 AAV
    • 2 LCVP
    • 1 'commander boat'
    • 1 RHIB

    Jamming that into that LPD presents quite a nice amphibious punch in that ship.
     
  17. Todjaeger

    Todjaeger Potstirrer

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    Ah, but that is nothing compared to the power of a Turkish 'aircraft carrier' with F-35B's... (now to duck and run from the beating I deserve for throwing this grenade in...)

    -Cheers

    PS Happy New Years everyone!
     
  18. John Fedup

    John Fedup Well-Known Member

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    Defence-aerospace.com has also reported that the Navantia design is the winner.
     
  19. kato

    kato Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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    The more bizarre thing is that this is supposed to replace the MILGEM contract that the government had to retract from Koc over corruption accusations. That one was for six corvettes.
     
  20. t68

    t68 Well-Known Member

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    Well it's been confirmed a couple of days ago by defence industry daily that they have stated negotiations to build a variant of JC1

    But the interesting fact is if it stalls according to the site the Chinese type 071 might be up for negotiating

    "If negotiations fall through, the DIEC has named DESAN Deniz Insaat Sanayi AS as SSM’s alternative negotiating partner. DESAN reportedly worked with China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation initially, who produce the 28,000t Type 071 LPD amphibious ships. Subsequent reports indicate that they probably teamed with South Korean shipbuilders to offer the 18,000t Dokdo Class LHD instead."

    How often do they announce a preferred ship but due to negotiations breaking down opt for something else would that happen often?


    Turkey Picks Navantia’s LHD Bulk up Amphibious Capabilities
     
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