Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force Thread

[SpazSinbad]

Heheh I'm glad I do not comprehend Japanese culture some times (they probably ponder our sense of humour) anyway this video displays the word play in Japan that must drive some weirdo furriners nuts. Perhaps until recently Japanese school children were not taught about the Second World War role of their country. Twenty odd years ago now I had a Japanese uni student on holiday (going to be a diplomat) stay in my home - he read/spoke good English but was dumbfounded by our newspapers talking about Japan & WWII - he had no idea. Anyway....

Carrier Izumo, F-35B plan by Takeshi Iwaya

 

[Stampede]

Over the next few decades, I suspect we will see a huge resurgence of the Aircraft carrier. Since WW2 we have only seen the US and to a lesser extent, the UK and perhaps the old USSR operate carriers in any great number. Now you have China, India and by the sounds of things the Japan all planning to operate significant numbers of these ships.

Yes, Australia will have a very active lake to our West / East and particularly to our North.
I wonder what the countries of S/E Asia make of these developments.

Regards S

 

[Ananda]

There's an image that have circulated from sometime this year of Indonesian PAL shipyard design for an 244m LPH.
They don't have matured design yet..but they intended as part of next phase development from their LPD.

ST Marine already put more mature design on their LPH.

I don't know when or even if any SEA nation will put LPH on their fleet, however remember Thailand already have Spanish made small carrier for more than two decade.

More flat tops in the region will bound one or two of SEA nations put their flat tops in the invetory by end of next decade or even sooner (that one more for the case of Singapore, Indonesia so far only toying with the idea..but more LST and LPD's that already in pipe line).

 

[oldsig127]

I don't know when or even if any SEA nation will put LPH on their fleet, however remember Thailand already have Spanish made small carrier for more than two decade.

Which rarely puts to sea, and then stays within rowing distance of the shore. Which is not to say it was useless 20 years ago, or entirely incapable now, mostly for HADR, but that years and financial neglect can make apparent assets less than viable

oldsig

 

[hauritz]

Now that Japan is becoming more assertive in this region it looks like they will be opening a lot of old wounds.

Japan alleges that video shows radar lock-on by South Korean warship

It makes me wonder if a unified coalition against China is even possible.

 

[ngatimozart]

Now that Japan is becoming more assertive in this region it looks like they will be opening a lot of old wounds.

Japan alleges that video shows radar lock-on by South Korean warship

It makes me wonder if a unified coalition against China is even possible.

WW2 ended 73 years ago with Japan being totally defeated, so methinks that some nations need to build a bridge and get over it. Japan of 2019 is not the Japan of 1944. Nazi Germany committed horrific crimes against its own population and it's conquered nations, but do you still hear nations going on about Germany being militarily strong and that it is wrong and shouldn't be allowed? Yes different cultures, but I think that it's time to bury the hatchet, because there is a far bigger and exceedingly more dangerous predator close aboard.

 

[SteveR]

Yes different cultures, but I think that it's time to bury the hatchet, because there is a far bigger and exceedingly more dangerous predator close aboard.

How very true. Mao Tse Tung and the Communist Party of China killed more than Hitler and Lenin/Stalin combined - we rightly convict 95 year old Germans for being part of the Holocaust but as far as I am aware not one Cheka/NKVD/KGB officer, not one Stasi officer not one Communist Chinese PSB officer and perhaps only one Khmer Rouge official have gone on trial for equally heinous crimes. Mao is shown on Chinese currency - the equivalent of an image of Adolf Hitler of Euro currency!

 

[SouthernSky]

WW2 ended 73 years ago with Japan being totally defeated, so methinks that some nations need to build a bridge and get over it. Japan of 2019 is not the Japan of 1944. Nazi Germany committed horrific crimes against its own population and it's conquered nations, but do you still hear nations going on about Germany being militarily strong and that it is wrong and shouldn't be allowed? Yes different cultures, but I think that it's time to bury the hatchet, because there is a far bigger and exceedingly more dangerous predator close aboard.

Japan as a whole needs to convince it's own population first that it needs to take a more offensive stance in terms of it's position in SE Asia. That hasn't happened yet.

I wouldn't personally roll South Korea's grievances towards WW2 into this particular incident. It would seem a helluva stretch to link an alleged radar lock on to what happened 73 years ago.

I think there is a little more to this particular incident that none of us are privy too.

 

[Rob c]

WW2 ended 73 years ago with Japan being totally defeated, so methinks that some nations need to build a bridge and get over it. Japan of 2019 is not the Japan of 1944. Nazi Germany committed horrific crimes against its own population and it's conquered nations, but do you still hear nations going on about Germany being militarily strong and that it is wrong and shouldn't be allowed? Yes different cultures, but I think that it's time to bury the hatchet, because there is a far bigger and exceedingly more dangerous predator close aboard.

I think that the difference between Japan and Germany has been the German total acknowledgement of what they as a nation did (Though at times they have been slow to prosecute individuals) and efforts to ensure that their population were educated in the wrongs of the past, to try and ensure that they did not happen again. This contrasts to the Japanese, who have been very slow to acknowledge anything unless forced too. However this is a normal asian trait loosely termed in the west as "saving face". While some have quite rightly said that there have been worse, like Mao and Stalin, these carried out most of their atrocities against their own people, and therefore the international community can condemn but not interfere with what is seen as an internal problem. Were as most of what Japan and Germany happened in other countries. This means that because of Japans lack of or very slow acknowledgement of what it did in these countries and lack of education to their own people that the recipients of the Japanese atrocities are naturally slow to forgive and forget. Even in our own culture, we are less likely to forgive someone who does not acknowledge their wrong doing.

 

[StobieWan]

WW2 ended 73 years ago with Japan being totally defeated, so methinks that some nations need to build a bridge and get over it. Japan of 2019 is not the Japan of 1944. Nazi Germany committed horrific crimes against its own population and it's conquered nations, but do you still hear nations going on about Germany being militarily strong and that it is wrong and shouldn't be allowed? Yes different cultures, but I think that it's time to bury the hatchet, because there is a far bigger and exceedingly more dangerous predator close aboard.

Bury the hatchet ? Certainly. Bury history, definitely not. Heck, I'm constantly being lectured as a Brit about all the evil things the British Empire did *200* years or more ago, I think teaching core history and mentioning the odd incident like the second world war may be good for all sides.


I understand things have changed of course, but I hear disturbing things about Japanese "museums" denying things like Nanking etc.

That can't be right.

 

[KiwiRob]

Mao is shown on Chinese currency - the equivalent of an image of Adolf Hitler of Euro currency!

Really, I doubt the Chinese have the same feelings about Mao as the Germans and most other countries have about Hitler.

 

[hauritz]

It is a situation that Japan and Korea need to sort out.

South Korea and other nations in the region need Japan to step up. They need Japan to boost their defence spending and increase the size of their military. They need Japan to increase their presence in the region and perhaps at some point even take over the lead role in any coalition against the Chinese. The Americans may not be willing, or perhaps even be able, to contain the Chinese over the coming decades.

 

[Xthenaki]

and Nth Korea)

 

[Xthenaki]

It is a situation that Japan and Korea need to sort out.

South Korea and other nations in the region need Japan to step up. They need Japan to boost their defence spending and increase the size of their military. They need Japan to increase their presence in the region and perhaps at some point even take over the lead role in any coalition against the Chinese. The Americans may not be willing, or perhaps even be able, to contain the Chinese over the coming decades.

I totally agree - I believe Japan is already on the roll and the US will support this (they have no option)

 

[Ananda]

Not all Asians are have same ''historical" WW2 behavior toward Japan. Most "historical" antipathy feeling lingered on Japan's East Asia neighbors (ie China and Korea).
The South East Asian nations despite facing similar atrocities on Japanese forces during WW2 are much more forgiving toward Japan and Japanese. This perhaps due to two things in my opinion:

1. Cultural rivalries, the SEA nations before WW2 was simply too far from Japan that cultural interaction (which can lead to rivalries) is more limited compared to Korean and Chinese that are having centuries of interaction and rivalries.
2. SEA historically are having more 'griviances' toward their European collonials, that 3.5 years of brutal Japanese occupation was just a 'speck' of time. In fact some of historians in Vietnam and Indonesia, see this occupation period as 'blessing in disguise' that allowed Vietnam and Indonesian revolutionary forces 'time' and 'opportunity' on consolidating their forces toward returning collonials (French and Dutch), and prepared them toward independence's. In the case of Indonesia..the historians agree that Japanese occupation in fact help solidified and facilitate (especially toward end of WW2) on Indonesian 'nationhood' that consists of the whole Dutch East Indies.

Thus the feelings on Korean and Chinese toward Japanese..is not 'merelly' on WW2 griviances..is more on cultural rivalries that dated on centuries interaction. For that Korean will always have suspicious feeling toward Japan, simmilarly toward China.

 

[DaveS124]

DT members in Singapore please note that IZUMO will soon be in town for Imdex. Maybe worth a look if she's open for tours. Would be worth just to see what an utterly spotlessly clean ship looks like!

At the moment she's doing some task group work with allies/partners as she moves south, and due back in Japan in July.

Some JMSDF photos attached. Other ships in the line astern pic are USS William P. Lawrence, INS Kolkata, INS Shakti, JS Murasame, and BRP Andres Bonifacio.

Eagle-eyed DT members will note that the pusser is rather keen on the (traditional) Friday curry served in IZUMO last week. It's a morale thing, obvs.

On a related note, sister ship KAGA will host Donald Trump when he visits Japan in a couple of weeks. The possibilities in and of that evolution could be interesting.

By the way, the whole DDH/destroyer hull designation isn't without precedent. The C in CV stands for cruiser, not carrier, although you'd have a hard time convincing me that a CVN is any sort of CG.

This from Japanese media;


"U.S. President Donald Trump will likely board the Izumo-class destroyer Kaga docked at a Maritime Self-Defense Force base near Tokyo when he makes a state visit to Japan in late May, bilateral sources said Wednesday.

Accompanied by Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, Trump is expected to meet with MSDF personnel at the Yokosuka base in Kanagawa Prefecture as the leaders aim to demonstrate the solid Japan-U.S. security alliance, according to the sources.

Japan has two Izumo-class destroyers, capable of carrying helicopters, which will be remodeled to accommodate F-35B stealth fighter jets that the SDF plan to purchase from the United States."


Whole article here Trump to inspect Japanese destroyer with Abe in late May - The Mainichi

 

[MrConservative]

More details about the 30FFM for the JMSDF

JMSDF Future Frigate To Feature Futuristic 360° Augmented Reality Wall

JMSDF Future Frigate to Feature Futuristic 360° Augmented Reality Wall - Naval News

According to MHI, the 30FFM multi-mission frigate will have a full load displacement of about 5,500 tons, with a length of 132.5 meters and a beam of 16.3 meters. It will have a maximum speed in excess of 30 knots. The crew complement will be quite low, at about 90 sailors, indicating a high level of automation on board.

From what I have picked up in Japanese language media and websites there is to be a fair amount of composites used in the superstructure. Makes sense in that Mitsubishi Group are tech leaders in this area as they are in the area Augmented Reality. Also that the second batch which was being dubbed the "33FFM" was going to be fitted with 32 Mk41 VLS versus the 30FFM's 16 cells and littoral warfare focus.

 

[OPSSG]

From what I have picked up in Japanese language media and websites there is to be a fair amount of composites used in the superstructure. Makes sense in that Mitsubishi Group are tech leaders in this area as they are in the area Augmented Reality. Also that the second batch which was being dubbed the "33FFM" was going to be fitted with 32 Mk41 VLS versus the 30FFM's 16 cells and littoral warfare focus.

Thanks for sharing. I like the design. The trend for advanced ship builders like Mitsubishi seems to be a much stronger focus on the "user interface" that is likely to feature fusion and identification to track contacts, and also to provide a threat evaluation and weapon assignment engine (much like the proposed ST Marine's Vangard-130 MCRV design), to enable the PWO to fight the ship in its intended role, be it in littoral or for air warfare.

This FFM looks like a close fit to NZDF's needs due to Japanese use of the Aegis Combat System on their ships (without the need for further integration with the Mk 41 VLS).

 

[buffy9]

Japan has released a conceptual image of it's future submarine project, known as the 29SS:

Taking a Closer Look at Japan's Futuristic Attack Submarine

The most notable parts of the design (as shown in the article) is the lowered and more streamlined sail; as well as the addition of pump-jet propulsion. The dive planes have been moved from the now blended sail onto the hull. It is an interesting design that appears to take on board a variety of next generation ideas and technologies.

Could the pump-jet and lowered sail indicate submarine better designed for speed and not just stealth? I know there has been discussion surrounding the efficiency of pump-jet propulsion at slow speeds in spite of it's lower noise levels when compared to traditional propeller technology.

 

[ngatimozart]

Japan has announced that it is to invest JPN¥3.1 billion (US$38.3 million) in upgrading the DDH Izumo to enable it to operate the F-35B. Since the Izumo was designed from the start to operate the F-35B with the elevators and hangars etc., designed and built with the aircraft in mind, it is thought that this latest upgrade is restricted to flight deck heat treatment, which will complete the F-35B capabilities for the ship. The Kaga will follow suit after the Izumo is completed. What will be interesting is if the Japanese redesignate the ships as CVs.

Seoul will complain, because of history and the animosity of the present SK govt, but there will be considerable wailing, screaming, gnashing of teeth, whinging and self righteous indignation from the ChiComs of Beijing.

Japan takes first steps towards refurbishment of JMSDF destroyer Izumo - Naval News