Irish Defence Forces

swerve

Super Moderator
...And its not just Ireland. There are more European nations with the same inability, some much larger than Ireland. Frankly, I don't understand why they don't want a any sealift capability. Their soldiers deserve something better than a rust bucket.
I'm trying to think which ones you mean. Portugal? Supposed to be getting a transport-oriented LPD, but it's taking forever. Belgium? Had a similar project, but it was canned. Belgium seems intent on arming its forces only for a peacekeeping role (scrapping all their heavy armour, artillery, etc), while not providing any of the logistical backup peacekeepers need. :(

Several countries contribute to the joint transport group, which has long-term leases on a few civilian ro-ros, notionally assigned to the Danish navy, IIRC. I think they're capable of carrying anything short of a Leopard 2 with no adaptations (they're designed for Euro standard 44 ton trucks, nose to tail), but Leo 2s may need some deck plating to distribute the weight. Denmark itself now has Absalon & Esbern Snare, but is still in the pool.

Interestingly, a spare UK Point-class ro-ro has been hired by a neighbour at least once. Seems their own ships were busy.

I think that a joint purchase of some more Point-class, to replace the leased ro-ro pool & add more capacity, would make a lot of sense. The for-hire UK Points could also be put in the pool.
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I think that a joint purchase of some more Point-class, to replace the leased ro-ro pool & add more capacity, would make a lot of sense. The for-hire UK Points could also be put in the pool.
Officially, there is no pool. The four ships are officially only in use by Denmark and Germany, however they "allow" Allies to use them as well - this list of (about 15) Allies constitutes "the pool".

The ships for the "pool" are notionally joint Danish/German now; the ships aren't assigned to either navy, but chartered (similar to the SALIS agreement with that Russian company).
Not sure about Leo 2, but since they have carried certain military loads before, their load balancing should allow for MLC60 at least.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
I couldn’t find a dedicated Irish Defence thread but found this one

Might be interesting to see how this progress certainly one for the Kiwis to watch to regenerate a ACF




Future programmes at pre planning stage

Beyond the very significant range of projects already underway or in existing planning streams, the EDP highlights others that are expected to progress in future phases of the plan. This is not an exhaustive list but gives an indication of the scale and range of programmes that will enter planning. At this stage there is not a definite commitment to pursue, or an associated time-frame, for these. These include a primary radar system, air combat interceptor, replacement of the two Coastal Patrol vessels, acquisition of diver based mine counter-measures and counter improvised explosive device equipment, field catering equipment, various vehicles such as replacement mini-buses, military

 

t68

Well-Known Member
Further more on a possible ACF for ROI, I found this article from the Irish times and it appears Maj Gen Ralph James (retired) gave an estimate of a 1 Billion budget for 16 aircraft. It appears that the continuous incursion by Russian Tupolev TU-95 aircraft has lead a call for its own assets to protect ROI airspace instead of relying on the UK and France for QRA
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Further more on a possible ACF for ROI, I found this article from the Irish times and it appears Maj Gen Ralph James (retired) gave an estimate of a 1 Billion budget for 16 aircraft. It appears that the continuous incursion by Russian Tupolev TU-95 aircraft has lead a call for its own assets to protect ROI airspace instead of relying on the UK and France for QRA
Do you have the link for the article?
 

OldTex

Member
While having an 'air combat interceptor' capability may be a long term desire (of some) it would represent a significant drain on the defence budget and manpower. Currently the fixed wing component of the air service is based upon 2 CN-235 (being replaced with 2 CN-295) in the MPA role, PC-9s (training & CAS) and PC-12 (ISTAR & utility). Higher priorities would be additional CN-295s to help patrol the 130,000sq miles of sea that are Ireland's EU obligation and a long range air surveillance radar for control of Irish air space (on behalf of IAA).

The DWP 2015 suggested that a MRV would be considered to replace the HPV (Helicopter Patrol Vessel), LE Eithne. Such a vessel would provide the platform for retaining the ability to operate a helicopter at sea, while also providing a limited sealift and HADR platform. As such it is a managed expansion of the roles performed by the Naval Service. It was also mentioned that 2 CPV (Coastal Patrol Vessels) would be considered in the future (replacing LE Ciara and LE Orla) which could add a limited MCM capability. If these acquisitions do occur in the future it will achieve both the replacement of the 3 oldest vessels in the fleet and add valuable roles to the Naval Service.
 
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John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Even with a severe GDP contraction due to COVID, a one billion Euro investment in fast jets isn’t an overwhelming burden for an economy with a GDP that is still well above $300 billion. I guess if Irish pollies want to due sovereignty on the cheap, they could pay allies to perform the role.
 

OldTex

Member
Rather than spend well over 1 billion euro on some fighter jets, it might be better to spend some of that money on improving pay and conditions for the uniformed personnel (in order to improve retention). As Ireland does not have any of the infrastructure (hangers, training establishments, maintenance facilities, runways etc) associated with a long history of fighter operations all of that will also have to be provided. If an air policing role is to be introduced then it might be simpler to use around a dozen trainer/fighter platforms to build the experience (and TTPs) needed.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
They could acquire something like the KAI FA-50 which is supersonic and would be more than capable of doing the job. It also isn't expensive to acquire and is able to be used for LIFT. It's a proven and mature platform, so would be relatively risk free, compared to say the AerMacchi MB345 or MB346. If they want to go down the path of full blown fully capable fighter aircraft, then they could assess that option further down the track after they have gained experience on their LIFT / light fighters.

Actually I would suggest a lease right at the beginning for say 5 - 7 years so that they can gain an understanding of what it takes to operate such a capability and then buy.
 
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