Indonesian Aero News

[tonnyc]

Yes, from various sources in here and Korea, the TNI-AU T-50i basically similar with ROKAF TA-50. As the picture from korean forum shown weapons pylons and wingtip rails. It is basically LIFT versions from standard T-50 with secondary light attack capabilities.

Meanwhile from KAI sources, as far as I can conclude the FA-50 is light fighters with secondary LIFT duty. In short the difference mostly on electronics and sensors between those two versions. What their role in Indonesian AF, is basically LIFT as replacement for Hawk Mk 53 (which also have secondary light attack capabilities). COIN will not be their task, since TNI-AU already got Super Tucano for that.

Rereading this makes me wonder if the Indonesian AF intends to do some ground attack training using the T-50i too, therefore reducing the number of hours needed to train for similar operations with MRFs. I have read news of Indonesian F-5 squadrons training rookies to perform ground attack, rookies which almost certainly will go to pilot F-16s and Flankers given Indonesia's plan to retire the F-5 circa 2015.

Does anyone know if the above training regime is possible?

 

[Ananda]

Rereading this makes me wonder if the Indonesian AF intends to do some ground attack training using the T-50i too, therefore reducing the number of hours needed to train for similar operations with MRFs. I have read news of Indonesian F-5 squadrons training rookies to perform ground attack, rookies which almost certainly will go to pilot F-16s and Flankers given Indonesia's plan to retire the F-5 circa 2015.

Does anyone know if the above training regime is possible?

The Ground Attack training used to be done by Hawk Mk 53. From what I gather, even before Hawk Mk-53, Indonesian AF already used their L-29 Delfin for ground attack training, since L-29 did have external hardpoints thst can carry small diameters bomblet or rockets.

F-5 is an operational sq, however the rookies did being placed with F-5 before some of them can be moved on to more sophisticated F-16 or Flankers. I believe it's even common practise in the Airlines. The new pilots will be assigned as Co-Pilot to smaller plane (like 737 or A-320), before can move on to be Co-Pilot in bigger planes (like A-330 or 767). For that it's can be presumed logical that the AF will put their fresh graduates rookies in their most basic fighters before they can move on to more sophisticated ones.

Some of them (Indonesian AF fighther rookies), even not went to F-5 but rather went directly to OV-10 as specialized COIN pilots. Still F-5 is not training sq, so they did not perform training on F-5, but just rather more step by step progress, from basic fighters to more sophisticated ones.

As T-50i will be replacement for Hawk Mk-53, then they (T-50i) should the one that will be used on ground attack training sylabus.

T-50i from paper have simmilar (or more) charateristics with F-5. Thus after T-50i, then I can presumed they (the rookies) can be more adaptable to go straight to F-16. Seems that's what the AF hope, which why some AF officials in here refered T-50i as small F-16. Afther all the sign shows the replacement for F-5 will be more F-16.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

[Gallery] The Thunder's, TNI-AU Real Air Superiority Fighter

First official sighthing of TNI-AU R-77 AAM on Angkasa Yudha aerial exercise on Natuna's Air space by end of last month. This the first official confirmation of BVRAM in TNI-AU arsenal.

Unconfirmed speculations already circulated of AIM-120 negotiation for TNI-AU F-16. This speculation arrise with the avionics upgrade for existing 10 Block 15 and 24 ex USAF Block 25, that enable those F-16 for BVRAM operations. If that happen then TNI-AU will operate both R-77 and it's US equivalent AIM-120.

Pictures from ARC websites courtesy of Sioux.

Thanks for sharing Ananda!

These pictures from TS-3008 were taken in Juli.
I never got the chance to take a better look at these pictures on a computer, but because i want to post them i started to edit this serie of photos a couple of days ago, and then i discovered there was something attached underneath the hardpoints below the fuselage of the second Su-30MK2 (TS-3008, the first i photographed was the unarmed TS-3006).
I zoomed in... and realized it was a R-77......

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

TNI fast track to more firepower
Novan Iman Santosa and Ridwan Max Sijabat, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | Headlines | Thu, August 16 2012, 9:01 AM

The Indonesian Military (TNI) is set for an aggressive upgrade to its worn-out firepower next year as the United States has made a fresh offer to donate jet fighters and lawmakers are willing to swell the defense budget.

Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro said on Wednesday that the US had offered another batch of Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon jets, on top of the first batch of 24 fighter planes it had already agreed.

“There will be additional F-16s donated by the US after they have been upgraded, which is still underway,” he said. “Once it is complete, our [F-16] strength will increase three fold.”

More at http://www.thejakartapost.com/files...ustom-560x336.jpg.pagespeed.ic.JDTRnW_8-T.jpg

So that means in a couple of years the amount of F-16 squadrons will increase from one to four...

 

[Ananda]

More at http://www.thejakartapost.com/files...ustom-560x336.jpg.pagespeed.ic.JDTRnW_8-T.jpg

So that means in a couple of years the amount of F-16 squadrons will increase from one to four...

Well, they do plan to have 10 Fighter sq before 2020. With 1 sq Flankers, 2 sq F-16 (24 refurbished + 10 existing), 2 sq Hawk 109/209, 1 sq COIN (super tucano), 1 sq LIFT (T/TA-50), and 1 sq F-5, that's total amounted for 8 sq.

This show more indication as mentioned before, the replacement for F-5 will be more refurbished F-16. However, personally I rather doubt TNI-AU will get 10 sq by 2020. Personally I more inclined to see they are just got refurbished F-16 to replace the F-5, That make the ORBAT to 1 Flankers, 3 F-16, 2 Hawk 109/209, 1 COIN and 1 LIFT. Total 8 sq rather than 10.

However if they manage to 10 sq, this can be more addtional 1 sq of F-16 and 1 sq of Flankers, which even though I doubt can be achieve before 2020 as plan, seems still been talked about.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Well, they do plan to have 10 Fighter sq before 2020. With 1 sq Flankers, 2 sq F-16 (24 refurbished + 10 existing), 2 sq Hawk 109/209, 1 sq COIN (super tucano), 1 sq LIFT (T/TA-50), and 1 sq F-5, that's total amounted for 8 sq.

This show more indication as mentioned before, the replacement for F-5 will be more refurbished F-16. However, personally I rather doubt TNI-AU will get 10 sq by 2020. Personally I more inclined to see they are just got refurbished F-16 to replace the F-5, That make the ORBAT to 1 Flankers, 3 F-16, 2 Hawk 109/209, 1 COIN and 1 LIFT. Total 8 sq rather than 10.

However if they manage to 10 sq, this can be more addtional 1 sq of F-16 and 1 sq of Flankers, which even though I doubt can be achieve before 2020 as plan, seems still been talked about.

So what you mean is that the second batch of 24 refurbished F-16 will be put in just one sq and that TNI-AU wants to order again a complete sq of Sukhois?

 

[Ananda]

So what you mean is that the second batch of 24 refurbished F-16 will be put in just one sq and that TNI-AU wants to order again a complete sq of Sukhois?

Looking at the official statement so far, no clear info whether this second batch of refurbished F-16 will be on what amount. Some statement indicated 24, previously only 14-16 (thus with 24 batch 1 + 10 existing) will make 48-50, enough for 3 sq. If the previous info that's turn right, then it means the second batch of refurbished F-16 is only to replace F-5. This present batch of 24, already slotted for 8 to add present F-16 sq (Sq 3 in Madiun AB), while the rest 16 will go to form new F-16 sq in Pekanbaru.

So if this 'plan' second batch of refurbished F-16 did materialize, and only for replacing F-5, then the number of Sq in ORBAT will only add 1 from present 7 to 8. Still short from planned 10 that's being talked by the Mindef for 2018-2020 ORBAT.

If the next administration still follow the proposed 10 sq ORBAT before 2020, only then it could be additional flankers sq in the horizon. However again, that's 'big' if, since the present admins already stated they will not add additional Flankers after the last batch. Which is for me is logical considering present administration time left is less than a year.

 

[koxinga]

More at http://www.thejakartapost.com/files...ustom-560x336.jpg.pagespeed.ic.JDTRnW_8-T.jpg

So that means in a couple of years the amount of F-16 squadrons will increase from one to four...

This article is dated August 2012. I think the article refers to the original batch of 24 planes, not a new batch. There was a subsequent offer of 10 additional airframes, but there were no indications that this was taken up.

In other news, Diehl (link) announced that they were awarded a contract from a unknown international customer for refurbished AIM-9P's from Luftwaffe's stocks. I note that ARC posted two purported procurement list from Dephan for 2013/2014. One of the line items clearly mentioned the procurement of refurbished AIM-9s. Could TNI-AU be this customer?

 

[Ananda]

If you see the ARC web site here
http://arc.web.id/images/stories/berita/bn818-2013lamp-166 copy.jpg

and compare it to your link
Diehl-Raytheon Missile Systeme GmbH captures $30 million international Sidewinder missile sale -- TUCSON, Ariz., Dec. 20, 2013 /PRNewswire/ --

DRM GmbH clearly authorised by Raytheon to handle not just refurbishement but also marketing new ones. All the 3 items related to AIM 9 in ARC website ( 1 item for refurbished missiles, 1 new missiles, 1 for training missiles) all budgeted for IDR 360 bio or roughly USD 30 mio on present exchange rate. Same amount on DRM contract.

So yes, I would say big probability the international customers mentioned by DRM is Indonesia.

 

[tonnyc]

I have looked at that news item a couple days ago and came up with Romania instead.

If you looked at the news item, it says that while Diehl is authorized to market the Sidewinder worldwide, it is only authorized to market the AMRAAM AIM-120C in Europe. Given that the package ordered by the Indonesian Air Force includes both Sidewinder and AIM-120C, it seems unlikely to me that Indonesia would source Sidewinder from Diehl Europe and AIM-120C from someone else. Given that the refurbishment and upgrade of the F-16 takes place in America, and America is clearly capable of selling Sidewinders and AIM-120C both to Indonesia, it is simpler to assume that Indonesia will be getting the missiles from America as EDAs.

Other than Indonesia, Romania is also getting F-16s. Given its location, it makes sense for Romania to source the missiles from an European supplier.

 

[koxinga]

It's just 20 refurbished AIM-9Ps and buying them from either the US EDA stocks or Germany's stockpile does not confer any advantages in simplicity, only in cost. The other line items seem to refer to new munitions.

Being a US manufactured munition, any third party transfer between Germany and Indonesia would be subjected to US export control. I do believe the transfer has to be reported to the Germany Parliament, and maybe we will know in due time.

 

[Ananda]

DRM is subsidiaries of Raytheon, and the official news show they are already provided AIM 9 support for Europe and also worldwide.

The Europe only support they provide seems for AMRAAM and HARM. However AIM 9 packages and support they provide worldwide. Being Raytheon subsidiaries, DRM can provide packages for AIM 9 (Refurbished, New, and Training) missiles that TNI AU order. While for AIM 120 TNI AU perhaps sources it from Raytheon US facilities. The overall deal for both missiles I tend to believe ordered directly to Raytheon, however DRM can be sources by the parent company (Raytheon) on providing AIM 9 packages.

So it does not matter whether Raytheon sources it from US or Germany (DRM in this case). For them as supplier, both basically is their facilities.

 

[madokafc]

Sukhoi-35 prioritas pengganti F-5 Tiger TNI AU
07-01-2014 16:36
Kementerian Pertahanan berencana mengganti pesawat tempur TNI Angkatan Udara F-5 Tiger yang harus pensiun, dengan mengganti pesawat tempur baru yang jauh lebih canggih, salah satunya pesawat tempur SU-35 dari Rusia.

"Ada beberapa usulan pesawat tempur yang saat ini masih dikaji untuk memilih yang paling tepat. Apakah pesawat tempur dari Rusia, Amerika, Eropa atau dari negara lain," kata Menteri Pertahanan Purnomo Yusgiantoro usai Rapim Kementerian Pertahanan yang dihadiri Panglima TNI dan Kepala Staf Angkatan, di Kantor Kemhan di Jakarta, Selasa.

Menurut dia, ada sekitar 5-6 usulan pengganti pesawat tempur TNI AU yang sudah berusia 30 tahun tersebut. Namun, dirinya meminta agar dilakukan pembobotan dan ditambah spesifikasi teknis, sehingga ditemukan pesawat yang tepat untuk gantikan F-5 Tiger.

Menhan berharap agar keputusan untuk memilih pesawat tempur pengganti itu segera diputuskan agar pada rencana strategis (Renstra) II 2015-2020 dapat dilakukan pembeliann sehingga datang tepat pada waktunyam

"Saya berharap pesawat tempur yang canggih tersebut mampu membawa peluru kendali jarak jauh," katanya.

Di tempat yang sama, Panglima TNI Jenderal TNI Moeldoko mengatakan, TNI AU telah membuat kajian untuk pesawat tempur pengganti F-5 Tiger, seperti Sukhoi SU-35, F-15, F-16 dan pesawat tempur buatan Swedia.

"Kajian itu sedang kami pelajari, tergantung dari kemampuan keuangan negara," katanya.

Kepala Staf TNI AU (KSAU) Marsekal TNI Ida Bagus Putu Dunia menambahkan, TNI AU menginginkan satu skuadron (16 unit) dalam pengajuan pesawat tempur pengganti F-5 Tiger.

"Kami ikuti renstra yang ada. Selanjutnya kami masih revisi sesuai arahan Panglima TNI dan Kemhan sesuai kemampuan negara untuk membuat masterlist," katanya.

KSAU mengatakan, setiap Renstra itu ada pergantian pesawat yang tak layak, sehingga dilakukan modernisasi sesuai perkembangan teknologi.

sumber: Antara News.com

This planning will be materialized in 2015-2019 time frame, TNI AU want to induct high performance fighter jet aircraft in which had capability to do BVR warfare and ability to launch stand off missile to replace their ageing F-5 fighter.

BTW, i am new here and so pleased to joint in this forum

 

[Ananda]

SU-35 rank first on Indonesian Tech Specification for F-5 replacement.

TNI Angkatan Udara Pilih Sukhoi Gantikan F-5 Tiger | -nasional- | Tempo.co

From Tempo on line. Sorry in Bahasa Indonesia. The Indonesian AF Chief quoted byTempo on line as already submitting technical specification proposal for F-5 replacement. This adding other statement before, just confirming the AF already submitting techical proposal.

The rank from what I gather from Tempo and other sources:
1. SU-35,
2. SAAB Gripen (not sure whether this C/D version or NG)
3. F-16 Block 52+
4. F-15E Strike Eagle.

F-15E from what I heard been put on last places mostly due to cost consideration relative to comparable performance rank of other candidates especially SU-35. Interestingly other National scale media Kompas last week put close to one page coverage of SAAB Gripen as strong candidate for F-5 replacement.

Somehow for me personally I can only see either SU-35 or F-16 Block 52+ as strong candidates. Introducing Gripen or Strike Eagle to inventory will put much more logistics pressure to Indonesian AF considering they only looking for 1 sq as F-5 replacement.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

TNI Angkatan Udara Pilih Sukhoi Gantikan F-5 Tiger | -nasional- | Tempo.co

From Tempo on line. Sorry in Bahasa Indonesia. The Indonesian AF Chief quoted byTempo on line as already submitting technical specification proposal for F-5 replacement. This adding other statement before, just confirming the AF already submitting techical proposal.

The rank from what I gather from Tempo and other sources:
1. SU-35,
2. SAAB Gripen (not sure whether this C/D version or NG)
3. F-16 Block 52+
4. F-15E Strike Eagle.

F-15E from what I heard been put on last places mostly due to cost consideration relative to comparable performance rank of other candidates especially SU-35. Interestingly other National scale media Kompas last week put close to one page coverage of SAAB Gripen as strong candidate for F-5 replacement.

Somehow for me personally I can only see either SU-35 or F-16 Block 52+ as strong candidates. Introducing Gripen or Strike Eagle to inventory will put much more logistics pressure to Indonesian AF considering they only looking for 1 sq as F-5 replacement.

Indeed.

F-15E is too expensive and the Americans absolutely dont want to sell such capable fighter to a country like Indonesia.

As you said, a logic decision will be the Su-35 or the F-16C/D Block 52, if we have the budget for these two types ofcourse.
But replacing the F-5 with another batch of the TA-50 will also be a good move in my opinion, its not expensive, its better in everything compared to the F-5E/F and we already have 16 of these Golden Eagles...
Besides that, placing the Saab Gripen in the same list of candidates together with the Su-35 and F-15E doesnt make sense....

 

[Ananda]

LAPAN

Indonesian National Aeronautics Agency (LAPAN), successfully tested their mid range surveilance Aircraft which they developed with Berlin University. This light Aircraft has flight endurance up to 8 hours and specifically build for aero recce, satellites imaging verification, and mapping.

This is the early step for Lapan effort on developing their own integrated capabilities on satellites imaging and aero reece. LAPAN claim that eventhough this aircraft still need on board pilot for take off and landing, but has fully autonomous capability during flight.

Whether this can be further developed for MALE UAV technology, remain to be see.

 

[madokafc]

Indeed.

F-15E is too expensive and the Americans absolutely dont want to sell such capable fighter to a country like Indonesia.

As you said, a logic decision will be the Su-35 or the F-16C/D Block 52, if we have the budget for these two types ofcourse.
But replacing the F-5 with another batch of the TA-50 will also be a good move in my opinion, its not expensive, its better in everything compared to the F-5E/F and we already have 16 of these Golden Eagles...
Besides that, placing the Saab Gripen in the same list of candidates together with the Su-35 and F-15E doesnt make sense....

Hmm i don't think if American doesn't wanna to sell such capable fighter to Indonesia, America right now more inclined to make Indonesia stay neutral or so in regard of Pacific situation right now. And surely that's they wanna to make Indonesia getting more closer to them, one of their way to make it happened is by selling high end armaments to Indonesia.

But let the Politics matter stay aside, right now we are talking about technical and combat support problems. Su-35 get a higher priorities than the other candidates because Air Force wanna get some fighter in par with other air superiority air craft in the regions (just name it F-15SG, Super Hornet, and Su-30MKM), other than that they wanna to get some platform in which has the ability to launch Stand off missile weapons and has a long endurance in air battle without external fuel tanks.

 

[Ananda]

I believe the AF will not put Strike Eagle on their technical consideration if they do not get signal from the US, Strike Eagle is already open for procurement for Indonesian AF. Afterall Aussies and Singapore already on road for F-35, thus opening F-15 to Indonesia is not much a far fetch problem anymore.

It's just the matter whether Indonesian Mindef can afford to procured and the AF has budget to maintain them. But again, as I mentioned on my post, the Strike Eagle is in the bottom simply due to cost consideration. It's simply too expendise for Indonesian wallet at this moment or near future.

Flankers is right for value, but even that the AF already mentioned on several occasion in the media that the operating costs (for Indonesian AF) is more than twice of the F-16. It's now still open for speculation. For me if Megawati side win the next ellections, then probably Flanker get the upper hand. However if still SBY or Prabowo camp that win, I smell more F-16. But no F-15 or Gripen, by either camps.

 

[madokafc]

SBY doesn't care if Indonesia buy more Falcon or Flanker, it is always will be in the hands of Kemenhan and TNI head quarters will decide what kind of stuff to be procured . Moeldoko and Poernomo Yusgiantoro is very fond with the quality and technical abilities the Flanker had offered but both of them too very concerned with the operating cost to maintain and flying them in regular basis. And for the Falcon, a lot of Indonesian air force higher ups is liking their performance and they are quite cheap to be operated and maintain than the Flanker. What i can see is, Air Force will inducted both of them in near future and TNI AU along with MoD will considered again US second offer for their ex US ANG F-16 after all of the 24 Falcon from the first agreement has been delivered, and buying in modest quantity of Flanker family either it will be Su-30 MKK or Su-35 to keep them on par with other regional Air forces with limited budget and long wishes they had so far.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

SBY doesn't care if Indonesia buy more Falcon or Flanker, it is always will be in the hands of Kemenhan and TNI head quarters will decide what kind of stuff to be procured . Moeldoko and Poernomo Yusgiantoro is very fond with the quality and technical abilities the Flanker had offered but both of them too very concerned with the operating cost to maintain and flying them in regular basis. And for the Falcon, a lot of Indonesian air force higher ups is liking their performance and they are quite cheap to be operated and maintain than the Flanker. What i can see is, Air Force will inducted both of them in near future and TNI AU along with MoD will considered again US second offer for their ex US ANG F-16 after all of the 24 Falcon from the first agreement has been delivered, and buying in modest quantity of Flanker family either it will be Su-30 MKK or Su-35 to keep them on par with other regional Air forces with limited budget and long wishes they had so far.

In the article at Indonesian Air Force Draws Up Shopping List | Aviation International News
They are telling now that there is a possibility that TNI-AU will not get new fighters in the near future.

Here some photos taken at Bandara Juwata,Tarakan (NC212 and the C295) and Hnag Nadim, Batam (737-400).