Indonesian Aero News

[Ananda]

Curious what the incoming administration would do as far as new hardware acquisition.

Considering next President is the current defence minister, more likely he's going to continue present administration policies. Afterall current defense planning basically his policies.

However KFX/KF-21 is different matters, it is decided by previous SBY administration and Jokowi basically come from different political factions. Yes the plan of defense acquisition actualy set for long term multi years acquisition plan. However doesn't mean politics of new administration will follow same priorities. That's what happen with KF-21, succeeding administration simply put different priorities. Thus the project got less financing allocations.

Which is why it is being stated in Indonesian forums, politics can change priorities that's being set by defense planners. They will not entirely change what defense planners build, but can change the procurement timing and types.

Which's why actually Indonesian defense planners are more consistent during Sukarno and Suharto period. Because both are afterall dictactors, and in power longer then this democratic ellected administrations .

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Considering next President is the current defence minister, more likely he's going to continue present administration policies. Afterall current defense planning basically his policies.

However KFX/KF-21 is different matters, it is decided by previous SBY administration and Jokowi basically come from different political factions. Yes the plan of defense acquisition actualy set for long term multi years acquisition plan. However doesn't mean politics of new administration will follow same priorities. That's what happen with KF-21, succeeding administration simply put different priorities. Thus the project got less financing allocations.

Which is why it is being stated in Indonesian forums, politics can change priorities that's being set by defense planners. They will not entirely change what defense planners build, but can change the procurement timing and types.

Which's why actually Indonesian defense planners are more consistent during Sukarno and Suharto period. Because both are afterall dictactors, and in power longer then this democratic ellected administrations .

I have the feeling that the PDI-P gang was anti KF-X/Chang Bogo/SIGMA 10514, but i don't know about Prabowo's personal opinion/view on these three "SBY-projects". Yes, he seems to be attracted to European products, but is he really against "SBY-projects"?
Gibran and Jokowi are not (anymore) part of the PDI-P clan and Luhut prefers everything from china.

So, like Ananda said, we just have to wait and see what will happen.
But with the Minister of Defence becoming president it is almost 100% certain that the 42 Rafales and 2 A400Ms will be delivered. Big chance that the Scorpènes also will be chosen. About additional frigates (on top of the two Iver Huitfeldts under construction), that is indeed unclear.

 

[koxinga]

TAI KAAN made it's first flight today. With Turkisation, would this replace KAI KF-21 as a political choice?

Of course, TAI is still a few years behind KAI, since KF-21 have been flying since 2022, and they are moving into LRIP next year.

Turkish stealth fighter prototype made its first flight

The prototype of the Türkiye's next-generation fighter jet, KAAN, successfully completed its maiden flight. Developed by Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), the KAAN represents Türkiye's most ambitious technological endeavor, aimed at bolstering the country's defense capabilities and enhancing...

defence-blog.com

 

[Ananda]

I Just put video on KAAN first flight on Turkish AF thread.

With Turkisation, would this replace KAI KF-21 as a political choice?

Who knows, with KAAN using F-16 engine, and Turkiye seems getting traction as Defense Partner. However who wants to take responsibility on fund that already being invest in KF-21 ? Indonesia supposedly already paid close to USD 1 bio according to schedule. However now still only pay around 30%. Still that's around USD 300 mio that will need to be justified as total loss, if Indonesia pull out.

Another political mine field. In Indonesian there's saying "Maju kena, mundur kena" or Forward is costly, Backward you are screwed. This seems situation of KF-21 for this administration (and next).

 

[Ananda]

MinDef online accounts (X, Web, and FB) still indicating F-15ID remain open commitment. Just I don't know how they're going to afford this operationally. Perhaps if the window still by end of this decade, they can't have room for this by replacing Flankers.

Singapore Airshow 2024: Boeing remains confident in Indonesian F-15EX programme | Shephard

Despite uncertainty over a clear timeline for final approval of the Indonesian F-15EX fighter programme, discussions have been ongoing between the US and Indonesian governments, as they work to address various aspects of the FMS deal.

www.shephardmedia.com

Personally I have my doubt on budget availability for F-15EX/F-15ID after they spent relative large batches (for Indonesian standard) of Rafale. However officially F-15ID and KF-21 still open commitment, despite questionable availability on budgets (procurement and operational). This perhaps that make Boeing still shown optimistic commitment from Indonesia on F-15ID.

Perhaps if they order it this year, with availability by end of this decade they 'might' have budget window on that. Depends on Prabowo's administration as continuation of Jokowi's administration budgets commitments. Rumours stated that next term credit line for defense acquisition potentially will be USD 30 bio, compare this term USD 25 bio. Mind you this is budget for credit line, thus means allocations for installments of credit lines that's being (from what I gather) have average credit tenure of 8-10 years.

As for this term, the only Big US acquisition seems only S-70 Black Hawk for Army. Something that Tweeter guy as Euro Salesman gleefully point that out.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1760447621305667663

Note: C-130J procurement actually use 2014-2019 (previous term) budget. Something that Prabowo's rival point that out during last presidential campaign.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Its is remarkable that the government seems to put more priority on F-15EX and S-70/UH-60 than B737 AEW&C, P-8 and CH-47.
TNI-AD already has a large fleet of Mi-17 and the Bell 412 series, but TNI-AU's 737-2X9 Surveiller fleet is over 40 years old and we don't have AEW-aircrafts at all.

 

[Ananda]

remarkable that the government seems to put more priority on F-15EX and S-70/UH-60 than B737 AEW&C, P-8 and CH-47.

Shiny Fighters and Helicopters are more catchy to shown for public and media, compare to lumbering ISTAR and MPA. They can 28 Rafale or more appropriate 4 P8 and 4 E7, then 24 F-15EX. Still what do we know, we just amateur enthusiasts .

 

[Arji]

As for this term, the only Big US acquisition seems only S-70 Black Hawk for Army.

Was this already done deal? I kind of tune out from military news for a while.

 

[Ananda]

Officially not yet, but has to admit Tweeter guy as salesman has inside info. However:

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DI and Honeywell already sign agreement for MRO on Honeywell products in S-70, at Singapore Airshow. DI already sign agreement with LM for on sales co-op. Which basically in my opinion mimic what DI has with Airbus Helicopter. DI will conduct final installation and customisation on its facilities for S-70.

So all indication shown this is basically close done deal, pending final contract activation (which usually means first payment/installment execution).

 

[Ananda]

Singapore Airshow 2024: PT Dirgantara secures first military order for N219

State-owned aerospace company PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) has secured its first-ever contract for the N219 twin-turboprop aircraft with a military customer.

www.janes.com

Indonesian MinDef in Singapore Airshow sign agreement for 6 N219 military transport variant, for Army (TNI-AD). This I suspect to replace early batch of C212 that come to inventory at the 80's-90's. However using big Airshow like Singapore ones, also part of marketing strategy. Shown to potential customers that the producer government already commit to be first user. Civilian variant now being negotiate to reach final contract with several provincial government, like Riau Islands and Bali provincial.

Despite externally N219 shown similarities with Twin Otter, however this plane derive from NC212i. Thus have bit bigger and wider dimensions then Twin Otter.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Singapore Airshow 2024: PT Dirgantara secures first military order for N219

State-owned aerospace company PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) has secured its first-ever contract for the N219 twin-turboprop aircraft with a military customer.

www.janes.com

Indonesian MinDef in Singapore Airshow sign agreement for 6 N219 military transport variant, for Army (TNI-AD). This I suspect to replace early batch of C212 that come to inventory at the 80's-90's. However using big Airshow like Singapore ones, also part of marketing strategy. Shown to potential customers that the producer government already commit to be first user. Civilian variant now being negotiate to reach final contract with several provincial government, like Riau Islands and Bali provincial.

Despite externally N219 shown similarities with Twin Otter, however this plane derive from NC212i. Thus have bit bigger and wider dimensions then Twin Otter.

At last....something they have to do much earlier.
But on the other hand, serie-production still hasn't started yet. Or very slowly and under the radar, in a way that it just look like this program is on hold/stuck.

 

[Ananda]

They already got capital injection that one of the purpose to increase N219 line up to 12 plane annualy (or 1 monthly). Currently prototype line only able to build 3-4 annualy. The line then can be increase double or triple depends on further investment.

Whether it is already finished (the upgrade line), that I still not find solid info in that.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Despite externally N219 shown similarities with Twin Otter, however this plane derive from NC212i. Thus have bit bigger and wider dimensions then Twin Otter.

Wikipedia claims the N219 is just simply based on the C212, but from which i understand, according to IPTN, the N219 is quite a clean sheet design, with at least a new nose, fuselage and tail section.

They already got capital injection that one of the purpose to increase N219 line up to 12 plane annualy (or 1 monthly). Currently prototype line only able to build 3-4 annualy. The line then can be increase double or triple depends on further investment.

Whether it is already finished (the upgrade line), that I still not find solid info in that.

Thanks. Hopefully they also already started with the production of the aircrafts.

 

[x100 XKR]

Wikipedia claims the N219 is just simply based on the C212, but from which i understand, according to IPTN, the N219 is quite a clean sheet design, with at least a new nose, fuselage and tail section.


Thanks. Hopefully they also already started with the production of the aircrafts.

Does N219 have certifications - like from JAA or FAA? How critical is it to have that? I get that Indonesia is the captive market, but from my limited knowledge, certification status plays significant role to support selling the product to non-Indonesian customers.

Regarding the hodgepodge planned fleet, I am actually kind of giddy anticipating a mixed fleet of Rafale, F15EX, F16 (hopefully brought up to V version) and KF21. Think about the ordnance collection .... assuming no FFBNW bs. It's like collecting Pokemon ..... you know ... Gotta catch 'em all! F15EX is especially interesting. Looking at what happened in Ukr, where saturation is prominently featured. Having a platform that have strong sensor fusion and combat persistence with large loadout I think would be critical for engagement in areas such as South China Sea.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesian N219 turboprop receives first certification - Air Data News

Developed by Indonesian Aerospace (formerly IPTN), the aircraft is yet another initiative by Indonesia to play a more important role in the aerospace industry

www.airdatanews.com

EASA certification after domestic certification that seems DI aim. Not surprising with DI closer relationship with Airbus then US based OEM. Certification also related to where you are aim the market. With potentially DI focus domestic market, with some potential in regional (like China and Middle East), EASA certification will be enough for DI's target export market.

Rafale and F-16 (potential upgrade) seems will be the core. Hawk 200/100 going to replace by Rafale. Flankers seems only going to have minimum upgrade, then if their Budget for F-15ID release next term, it will be replace by that perhaps begining by end of this decade windows.

The video above is official MinDef video on Dpt Defense Minister visit at Singapore Airshow. We can see the hint on MinDef program on booth he's visiting. MBDA, Thales, LM and Boeing. The video shown him on F-15EX simulator, hinting the program still on.

KF-21 still the puzzle, but seems ROK build that for using MBDA and Raytheon missiles and armament. Thus at paper, it will be using similar armament that Rafale and F-16+F-15 using. That after initial chaotic defense procurement hubris, seems shown rationale and sanity settling down bit. Factor in influence from money guys in MoF and Bapenas, for me shown part of that rationality.

Politics Negotiation always can make thing upsidedown in Indonesia. Despite the Lossing factions now going to challenge election results legally and politically in Supreme Court and Parliament, it is for me going to be part of political negotiations. Whether the one of the Lossing faction (that's also where Russian and Chinese sales representative stays), can still creating havoc by pursuing Chinese MIC agenda, remain to be seen. However the planning so far focus on Frenchie and US assets, with secondary suppliers from Turkiye and ROK.

That's so far for Indonesian standard already effort to minimize logistics footprint.

 

[x100 XKR]

Indonesian N219 turboprop receives first certification - Air Data News

Developed by Indonesian Aerospace (formerly IPTN), the aircraft is yet another initiative by Indonesia to play a more important role in the aerospace industry

www.airdatanews.com

EASA certification after domestic certification that seems DI aim. Not surprising with DI closer relationship with Airbus then US based OEM. Certification also related to where you are aim the market. With potentially DI focus domestic market, with some potential in regional (like China and Middle East), EASA certification will be enough for DI's target export market.

Rafale and F-16 (potential upgrade) seems will be the core. Hawk 200/100 going to replace by Rafale. Flankers seems only going to have minimum upgrade, then if their Budget for F-15ID release next term, it will be replace by that perhaps begining by end of this decade windows.

The video above is official MinDef video on Dpt Defense Minister visit at Singapore Airshow. We can see the hint on MinDef program on booth he's visiting. MBDA, Thales, LM and Boeing. The video shown him on F-15EX simulator, hinting the program still on.

KF-21 still the puzzle, but seems ROK build that for using MBDA and Raytheon missiles and armament. Thus at paper, it will be using similar armament that Rafale and F-16+F-15 using. That after initial chaotic defense procurement hubris, seems shown rationale and sanity settling down bit. Factor in influence from money guys in MoF and Bapenas, for me shown part of that rationality.

Politics Negotiation always can make thing upsidedown in Indonesia. Despite the Lossing factions now going to challenge election results legally and politically in Supreme Court and Parliament, it is for me going to be part of political negotiations. Whether the one of the Lossing faction (that's also where Russian and Chinese sales representative stays), can still creating havoc by pursuing Chinese MIC agenda, remain to be seen. However the planning so far focus on Frenchie and US assets, with secondary suppliers from Turkiye and ROK.

That's so far for Indonesian standard already effort to minimize logistics footprint.

I like it. Getting 3 sqn of Rafale with commitment to not do FFBNW is a good step. It does introduce a new platform and logistical tails for the AF (no track record of Dassault or French-built main jet), but it showed willingness to build on something. I think if the AF is serious, they can build serious capability combo of F15EX/Rafale-and-F16V/KF-21 as high/low mix. It does require good amt of budget, but perhaps they'll find something off other programs who knows.

The TK-made missiles, I assume they are effective? I am not sure abt the HISAR family and the ATMACAs, but I guess the Turks hardware have good enough track record to warrant a lot of interest courtesy of their performance in the Ukr.

I heard snippets about Hawk 200/100 package being offered to the Uruguayan AF through a US intermediary called Falcon Air. The only major users of Hawk 200s are Indo and RMAF. Anyone heard about that, and whether Indo has any ties to this?

 

[Ananda]

heard snippets about Hawk 200/100 package being offered to the Uruguayan AF through a US intermediary called Falcon Air.

This talk on Uruguay Hawk 200/100, more likely using Oman Inventories. TNI-AU and RMAF I believe still going to use their Hawk for several years more. RMAF as my understanding will keep them until new LCA come, while TNI-AU already stated that their Hawk will be replaced by Rafale gradually.

Delegación de EEUU viaja a Uruguay para avanzar en la compra de los BAE Hawk 200

Una delegación del gobierno de Estados Unidos viajará a Uruguay, durante la presente semana, para avanzar en las negociaciones para la adquisición de una decena de BAE Hawk 2 ...

www.infodefensa.com

That's the latest update on that Hawk 200 plan for Uruguay. If I was Uruguay defense planner, I also going to choose Oman Hawks rather then Malaysian or Indonesian ones. Not just on timing availability, but also because both ASEAN nation use their hawk on higher fight times averages then Oman.

but I guess the Turks hardware have good enough track record to warrant a lot of interest courtesy of their performance in the Ukr.

I believe the deal more related to two things, level of tech transfer agreement and costs. You can't expect similar tech transfer agreement can be ask to both Raytheon and MBDA, compare to Roketsan.

 

[Ananda]

Kadispenau Ungkap Rencana TNI AU untuk Menambah Dua Skadron Drone - Indonesiadefense.com | Informasi Berita Terkini dan Terbaru Hari Ini Hankam Dan TNI %

Kepala Dinas Penerangan Angkatan Udara (Kadispenau), Marsma TNI R. Agung Sasongkojati mengungkap rencana TNI Angkatan Udara (TNI AU) untuk menambah dua skadron drone, sehingga secara keseluruhan TNI AU akan memiliki 4 skadron drone.

indonesiadefense.com

TNI AU bakal tambah dua skuadron drone di Tarakan dan Malang

Kepala Dinas Penerangan Angkatan Udara (Kadispenau) Marsma TNI R. Agung Sasongkojati mengatakan TNI AU bakal menambah dua skuadron pesawat nirawak (drone) di ...

m.antaranews.com

TNI-AU plan to double UAV squadrons from 2 to 4. Currently 51st sq in Pontianak AB and 52nd sq in Natuna AB is the two dedicated UAV squadron. According to this, TNI-AU spokesman say they will build 53rd sq in Tarakan AB (North Kalimantan/Borneo province) and 53th sq in Malang AB (East Java).

They will equip the sq with Turkiye Anka MALE UAV, however seems they are also potentially add second batch of Chinese CH-4 MALE UAV. Seems some projects still be give to Chinese Suppliers. Better UAV then more strategic assets.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Kadispenau Ungkap Rencana TNI AU untuk Menambah Dua Skadron Drone - Indonesiadefense.com | Informasi Berita Terkini dan Terbaru Hari Ini Hankam Dan TNI %

Kepala Dinas Penerangan Angkatan Udara (Kadispenau), Marsma TNI R. Agung Sasongkojati mengungkap rencana TNI Angkatan Udara (TNI AU) untuk menambah dua skadron drone, sehingga secara keseluruhan TNI AU akan memiliki 4 skadron drone.

indonesiadefense.com

TNI AU bakal tambah dua skuadron drone di Tarakan dan Malang

Kepala Dinas Penerangan Angkatan Udara (Kadispenau) Marsma TNI R. Agung Sasongkojati mengatakan TNI AU bakal menambah dua skuadron pesawat nirawak (drone) di ...

m.antaranews.com

TNI-AU plan to double UAV squadrons from 2 to 4. Currently 51st sq in Pontianak AB and 52nd sq in Natuna AB is the two dedicated UAV squadron. According to this, TNI-AU spokesman say they will build 53rd sq in Tarakan AB (North Kalimantan/Borneo province) and 53th sq in Malang AB (East Java).

They will equip the sq with Turkiye Anka MALE UAV, however seems they are also potentially add second batch of Chinese CH-4 MALE UAV. Seems some projects still be give to Chinese Suppliers. Better UAV then more strategic assets.

Thank you for sharing.
As far as i know SkU 51 has at least 4 Aerostars. TNI-AU also has around 6 CH-4Bs (am i right?) and according to some sources also 3 IPTN Wulung and a small amount of IAI Searcher 2. How are the other UAVs spread between SkU 51 and 52?

I expect SkU 53 will be created to absorb the TAI Anka.

 

[Ananda]

How are the other UAVs spread between SkU 51 and 52?

CH-4 goes to 52nd Sq, if you see this photo (from 52nd sq instagram and TNI-AU site), zoom it to hangar, and you can see CH-4.



So Indonesian practically say to the Chinese: "We will put MALE UAV with surveillance and combat capabilities to monitor you in Natuna Sea. Using UAV that's you produce."



TNI-AU do have CH-4 with ISTAR capabilities. Now it is mostly use in Natuna monitoring mostly Chinese fleet there. If the question can Chinese jammed them? more likely as it is their products anyway .

51st now from what I got using others UAV in Inventory, that mostly are DI made and off course Israel made.


They are supposedly use this (source from X with id yudisupri), but we know thanks to BRIN mess up, this will take time to achieve.

The 53rd in Tarakan perhaps going to use ANKA (12 on Contract), while perhaps 54th will going to use 2nd Batch CH-4 (that TNI-AU spokesman talk in media).

Add:
54th Sq in Malang also means it is the first MALE UAV sq build for southern part of Indonesia. We need to monitor our southern flank too. Our Southern Neighbor recently cought send their surveillance to waters of East Nusatenggara Province.

BRIN sebut buaya Australia masuki perairan Indonesia - ANTARA News Bangka Belitung

Badan Riset dan Inovasi Nasional (BRIN) menyebutkan buaya di Australia memasuki perairan Nusa Tenggara Timur (NTT) Indonesia dan telah menimbulkan konflik ...

babel.antaranews.com

Also MinDef X just add video of ANKA, also done in their FB and online sites. Indicating ANKA already done deal. From 12, 6 will be construct in TAI and 6 others in DI as part of tech transfer.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1763732824916639908