Bell 412 and S-70M belong to the same medium/utility category. In any case, TNI-AU are also long time users of the Super Puma series, (NSA330/H225/NAS332)
Anything bigger like CH-47 represents a different category (heavy lift) all together.
Indonesian Aero News
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Anything bigger like CH-47 represents a different category (heavy lift) all together.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Yes, that's what i mean, for many years they are wishing for something heavy like the CH-47, but now they get something similar to the Bell 412.
Ananda
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The talk to have S-70 to augment Bell 412 actually already around for a decade. Infact talk to have something to augment Bell 412 is already around since early 2000. However at that time (early 2000) conditions on budget and political (US Embargoes) make Indonesia choose MI-17 instead.
S-70 have bit advantages against Bell 412 in carrying capacity and speed. However I suspect the plan for S-70 more to prepare MI-17 retirement. Just like MI-35 which I do suspect going to be phase out in time with more AH-64E (if plan and budget permits).
Off course it is depends on whose going to win the election. If Prabowo or Anies that win (considering Anies potentially will be back by SBY camp), US procurement probably going to go ahead more smoothly. However if Ganjar wins, and considering those who support Russian and Chinese procurement are coming from his political factions, then the situations can change.
Jokowi seems in his 2nd term are closer to Western leaning factions, although he is also not abandoning his original factions. Perhaps that's the reason why he goes to G7 summit before, but now also goes to BRICS summit.
Not want to digress on politics, just shown as usual in Indonesia, politics can be more decisive factors on Government procurement even in Defense. That's why I said in my post, Prabowo got green light to begin moving up procurement assets from US. However unlike some Frenchie procurement, US ones are still behind in contractual stages. Thus politics from ellections result still can change it.
As for heavy helicopter, rumours say MI-26, CH-47 and CH-53 still in consideration. However considering current Geopolitics, CH-47 and CH-53 that moving ahead in consideration stages. Again ellections results can still change that. Just to shown the consideration for heavy Helicopters still there.
S-70 have bit advantages against Bell 412 in carrying capacity and speed. However I suspect the plan for S-70 more to prepare MI-17 retirement. Just like MI-35 which I do suspect going to be phase out in time with more AH-64E (if plan and budget permits).
Off course it is depends on whose going to win the election. If Prabowo or Anies that win (considering Anies potentially will be back by SBY camp), US procurement probably going to go ahead more smoothly. However if Ganjar wins, and considering those who support Russian and Chinese procurement are coming from his political factions, then the situations can change.
Jokowi seems in his 2nd term are closer to Western leaning factions, although he is also not abandoning his original factions. Perhaps that's the reason why he goes to G7 summit before, but now also goes to BRICS summit.
Not want to digress on politics, just shown as usual in Indonesia, politics can be more decisive factors on Government procurement even in Defense. That's why I said in my post, Prabowo got green light to begin moving up procurement assets from US. However unlike some Frenchie procurement, US ones are still behind in contractual stages. Thus politics from ellections result still can change it.
As for heavy helicopter, rumours say MI-26, CH-47 and CH-53 still in consideration. However considering current Geopolitics, CH-47 and CH-53 that moving ahead in consideration stages. Again ellections results can still change that. Just to shown the consideration for heavy Helicopters still there.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
CH-47 makes sense, MV-22 no. Its cost and the hard clutch issue are negatives. If the speed advantage of a tilt rotor is really warranted, I say wait for the V-280 albeit the MV-22 is larger and available now.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Germany, a current user of earlier model CH-53s, decided on CH-47s, cost and proven performance the likely reasons. The latest CH-53 model is new and delivery priority will be for the US services.
Ananda
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/data/photo/2023/08/22/64e45593ad527.jpeg)
Skadik 103, Kawah Candradimuka Para Penerbang Drone Tempur TNI AU
“Skuadron Pendidikan 103 terhitung mulai hari ini, secara resmi dinyatakan diaktifkan kembali dan mulai beroperasi,' katanya.
nasional.kompas.com
Indonesian AF (TNI-AU) chief, open first Training Squadron dedicate to UAV. The sq call Training Squadron (Skadik in Indonesian) 103. This is part of move from Indonesian AF preparation for more UAV dedicate operations. This training sq home base will be in Tasikmalaya AB in West Java.
Currently Sq 51 in Pontianak AB is the dedicate operational sq for UAV. Currently home for various TNI-AU UAV source from Israel, China and Indigenous DI ones. With procurement from Turkiye on TAI ANKA MALE UCAV, it is potentially also increase the number of Operational UAV squadrons. Dedicate UAV training squadron need to prepare human resources for that.
ChestnutTree
Active Member
I would also like to point out that a significant portion of the Bell fleet (even the new ones) aren't equipped with any self-protection equipment. AFAIK they aren't even equipped with flares.
This move could be seen as a way for PTDI to hone onto those systems.
I think geopolitical realities are a big drive towards the Jokowi administration being closer to the West during its second term. COVID-19, Chinese incursions, the Russo-Ukrainian war, AUKUS, domestic issues in Brazil, India, and South Africa made it increasingly difficult for his administration to try and play the line of the "multipolar world" angle. I genuinely welcome closer relationships with the West over the often self-defeating "Bebas Aktif" policy.
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Ananda
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That's I believe part of the reasons, but I do sense Jokowi wants more independent move by himself. He wants to shown this is his administration, and not his party (his original political factions) administration. Especially in his second term.
Add:
On multipolar angle, I believe his administration and himself not going to stay away from that. Most Global South actually are now closing in to this multipolar world order. His coming to BRICS summit is part of that. Shares of Global South in World Economy is increasing, they are not going to follow US/West Unipolar as West hope after Cold War ended.
He might be not committing (yet) on becoming membership of group. However I do believe Indonesia will watch how the like of India and Brazil or even Saudi Arabia balance this.
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I read that BRICS have added Saudi Arabia, Iran, Ethiopia, Egypt, Argentina and UAE to the group and it is open to new admissions. I think that Indonesia has to think carefully about becoming part of that group, purely because of the PRC and its activities within the region.
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/EHWMEOHYHZOV7MRL6SABRMFDKM.jpg)
BRICS welcomes new members in push to reshuffle world order
The BRICS bloc of developing nations agreed on Thursday to admit Saudi Arabia, Iran, Ethiopia, Egypt, Argentina and the United Arab Emirates in a move aimed at accelerating its push to reshuffle a world order it sees as outdated.
www.reuters.com
Ananda
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Indonesia also lobby to get into OECD. This is especially champion by those in present administration, which historically lean to West.
/data/photo/2023/08/25/64e82a4fd75c0.jpeg)
amp.kompas.com
Still with Jokowi come to BRICS summit, shown at least Indonesia want to maintain their BRICS prefer partner status at least by now.
Politics on domestic Indonesia is matter, especially closing to election now. Jokowi party is not what you can call 'warm' to West. They are the ones that claim as true inheritors of "Soekarnoism". Remember when Megawati as President, US not what you can say warm to Indonesia. Those not be forgotten by some " Nationalist " of that factions.
Just like US/West, China also has those that support and warm towards having close relationship. Problem with China mostly in SCS. However Investment from China also got mix reaction between factions.
Even though this is TNI defense threads, but sometimes need to shown hoe domestic politics mechanics matter, toward Indonesia want to position itself toward BRICS. Got sense on BRICS Indonesia is looking more toward India, Brazil and now Saudi Arabia on balancing their position there.
Bertemu Dubes Negara OECD, Menko Airlangga: Seluruh Dubes Dukung Indonesia Jadi Anggota OECD
Menurut Airlangga, institusi dan pembuat kebijakan di Indonesia akan mendapatkan manfaat dari proses keanggotaan OECD.
amp.kompas.com
Still with Jokowi come to BRICS summit, shown at least Indonesia want to maintain their BRICS prefer partner status at least by now.
Politics on domestic Indonesia is matter, especially closing to election now. Jokowi party is not what you can call 'warm' to West. They are the ones that claim as true inheritors of "Soekarnoism". Remember when Megawati as President, US not what you can say warm to Indonesia. Those not be forgotten by some " Nationalist " of that factions.
Just like US/West, China also has those that support and warm towards having close relationship. Problem with China mostly in SCS. However Investment from China also got mix reaction between factions.
Even though this is TNI defense threads, but sometimes need to shown hoe domestic politics mechanics matter, toward Indonesia want to position itself toward BRICS. Got sense on BRICS Indonesia is looking more toward India, Brazil and now Saudi Arabia on balancing their position there.
With the membership expansion, it is looking more and more like the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) in terms of members and ideology, and which Indonesia is one of the founding members. That will be an odd look for Indonesia.
Ananda
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In paper BRICS is more on building alternative financial market outside US/West lead market system. While NAM is more on Politics, and not talking much on business and financial markets.
This is the difference, as many in Global South looking for alternative financial markets, which transactions is not control by US/West. As I have mentioned before in Russian Thread, the effect of US and West weaponised Currencies and Financial Market, is loosing confidence from Non West on the market that supposedly impartial on politics.
BRICS try to build that alternative, and that's part why some in Global South begin to take BRICS more seriously. So ideological and politics is much less the driver in BRICS relative to NAM.
If there's common ideology in BRICS, it's perhaps can be said as 'alternative capitalism' or 'alternative globalism'
In paper, yes, but in real life, it is hard to cut neatly politics and financial markets into two different discussions/organisations. On the contrary, if it is alternative financial markets, it will slowly make BRICS more critical and overshadow a political talk shop like NAM.
But we digress in this thread so I will stop here.
But we digress in this thread so I will stop here.
Ananda
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Close to two months ago, I commented on how LAPAN continue to pushing back the target for their SLV. This video shown the target for Biak Spaceport, the launch pad for LAPAN SLV being put now on 2036-2040. Basically push a Decade from target set by them during previous administration.
Will new administration still pursue the target date or push it back again ? One thing for sure the "will" from LAPAN still there, the will for building propelant industries still there, however the will to give proper Investment is the questions.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
For decades there is the wish/dream to build a spaceport in Biak, but because of the lack of political and financial support, nothing happen. Just look at the technical progress of LAPAN's rockets, not much improvement if you look back to the '60s.
An operational launch facility will come at the earliest far after 2050, i think at that time most of the DefenceTalk members are already passed away because of age.
Ananda
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To be fair to all administrations after Soeharto, even Soeharto which relatively (in % of GDP) invest more on Strategic Industries, is not put much Investment to space agency like LAPAN. However they do now have better Investments on propellant. Still it is aim more for Missiles RnD, not SLV. LAPAN hope the investment on RX rocket series will be dual function with their dream on SLV. Still as you have put, until they shown the money for that program, it is just dream that keep pushing back.
So far tough LAPAN RnD in Satellites got more traction then SLV.
Just caveat, Space is big investment and need a lot off political will. Even Indian ISRO, with their recent moon landing, still complaining of relatively low investments. I seldom put Indian Investments in their strategic sector something that need to be follow. Indian bureaucracy in sense is not much different with Indonesian ones (on part of effectiveness). However for Space Exploration, ISRO can be good examples. So far they manage to do in fraction of costs from everyone else.
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Ananda
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PT Len: 13 unit radar GCI pesanan RI dari Thales dirakit di Subang
Direktur Utama PT Len Industri (Persero) Bobby Rasyidin menyebut perakitan tahap akhir (final assembly) 13 unit sistem radar pengendali Ground Control ...
www.antaranews.com
Thales despite some move from competition like Leonardo, Havelsan, Terma, continue shown strong presences in Indonesian Defense Electronics and Sensors market. The implementation on GCI radar contract for 13 GM-403 model seems already in force.
Indonesian Defense SOE in electronic PT. LEN will involve with final assembly and provide manufacturing of some parts and software integration. Thales akso already shown strong presence with new build in Naval sector in Indonesia. Leonardo and Havelsan seems determine to take some slices of defense electronics market. So far Thales shown they still hold the lead.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
It is really good that Indonesia chose the GM-400 Ground Master series of groundradars. Not only Indonesia already use older ground based systems from Thales/Thomson-CSF (and naval systems from Hollandse Signaalapparaten), but the GM-400 system is also transportable in a single C-130.PT Len: 13 unit radar GCI pesanan RI dari Thales dirakit di Subang
Direktur Utama PT Len Industri (Persero) Bobby Rasyidin menyebut perakitan tahap akhir (final assembly) 13 unit sistem radar pengendali Ground Control ...
Thales despite some move from competition like Leonardo, Havelsan, Terma, continue shown strong presences in Indonesian Defense Electronics and Sensors market. The implementation on GCI radar contract for 13 GM-403 model seems already in force.
Indonesian Defense SOE in electronic PT. LEN will involve with final assembly and provide manufacturing of some parts and software integration. Thales akso already shown strong presence with new build in Naval sector in Indonesia. Leonardo and Havelsan seems determine to take some slices of defense electronics market. So far Thales shown they still hold the lead.
It is only confusing for me. According to
Thales, PT Len partner for Indonesia's new air surveillance radars
Indonesia has ordered 13 GM-403, which has a range of 390 km.
But according to
Thales to reinforce Indonesia’s Sovereign Airspace Protection capabilities with PT Len
Today 19 June 2023, at Paris Air Show 2023, Thales and PT LEN officials celebrate a new milestone towards Indonesia’s airspace protection capabilities with the future delivery of 13 Ground Master 400 Alpha long-range air surveillance radars and the associated Command and Control system (SkyView).
Ananda
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Perhaps the version that being assembly by LEN have elements of GM-403 and GM-400 Alpha. Seems base on LEN CEO comments LEN got Tech Transfer in C2 and Software development and customisation. So it is possible they can mash up bespoke customisation.
Ananda
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Kementerian Pertahanan Republik Indonesia
www.kemhan.go.id
Indonesian MinDef Tweet (X) and Website put meeting between Airbus Asia Pacific and Deputy Defense Minister. The article anounce 4 procurement project that already has effective contract.
Now 3 of them (ASW Panther Helicoper, A400M, and Caracal Helicopter) already been announce for some time. ASW Helicopters already come. However the 4th one is a contract that being talk and expected for some time, but not being announce.
Not clear yet if those MRTT will be new build or converted second hand commercial airliners stock ones. It is being speculate that Garuda A330-200 will be use as conversion base. Still no official info on where this A330 MRTT will be base on. Still this is confirmation on the progress of that MRTT contract program.