Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Ananda

The Bunker Group
That's idea that MinDef looking for. Garibaldi according to Fincantieri official still in good condition, that they guarantee can operate in good condition up to 2040. Indonesia already drawing plan for building its own LHD/Light Carrier. With all other plan procurement, I don't think it will be given priority budget in this term. Garibaldi is the next best thing.
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
That's idea that MinDef looking for. Garibaldi according to Fincantieri official still in good condition, that they guarantee can operate in good condition up to 2040. Indonesia already drawing plan for building its own LHD/Light Carrier. With all other plan procurement, I don't think it will be given priority budget in this term. Garibaldi is the next best thing.
I suspect a light carrier will be more effective than a LPD type. UAS will produce some very interesting possibilities.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
UAS will produce some very interesting possibilities.
Drone carrier concept I believe that attract more TNI-AL and MinDef on operating Garibaldi. They have enough LPD to conducting Amphibious and Emergency operation. Republikorp already sign agreement with Bayraktar for JV production up to 60 TB3. This is what main attraction with Garibaldi I suspect.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

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Xavier video in IndoDefence shown PT. LUNDIN designs. The interview conduct with the owner and CEO John Lundin. He's Swedish that marries Indonesian and build the company shipyard in East Java. Specialise with fast boats. PT. Lundin is part of Northsea Boats group NORTHSEABOATS – Securing Nation.

I put also Republikorp Stealth Missile boat design which in my opinion targeting same market niche. Both being design as Compact Fast Missile Boats, with abilities as hybrid manned and UAS mode. Republikorp boat designed using Roketsan Atmaca SSM while Lundin boat designed using Kongsberg NSM.

Lundin also shown other UAS design that also can have flexible payloads. Seems war in Ukraine now spurred UAS design everywhere.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member

View attachment 53078

Xavier video in IndoDefence shown PT. LUNDIN designs. The interview conduct with the owner and CEO John Lundin. He's Swedish that marries Indonesian and build the company shipyard in East Java. Specialise with fast boats. PT. Lundin is part of Northsea Boats group NORTHSEABOATS – Securing Nation.

I put also Republikorp Stealth Missile boat design which in my opinion targeting same market niche. Both being design as Compact Fast Missile Boats, with abilities as hybrid manned and UAS mode. Republikorp boat designed using Roketsan Atmaca SSM while Lundin boat designed using Kongsberg NSM.

Lundin also shown other UAS design that also can have flexible payloads. Seems war in Ukraine now spurred UAS design everywhere.
Until now most projects from PT Lundin end up as a single vessel for evaluation without a follow on order/serial production.

X3K/ 63 m Trimaran is such example, just a single vessel after KRI Klewang 625 ended up in flames during construction. So they plan to upgrade the KRI Golok 688 and install a Bofors 57 mm and ATMACA launchers. Well we will see if this plans become reality.

The X18 Antasena, it seems the army isn't impressed by this design (or do not require a boat like this), so hopefully the navy will be satisfied and finds the X18 usable... to guard naval bases or to use it for Korps Marinir operations for example.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group

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Four USV from Exail call Inspector 90 for minehunter has been contracted by TNI-AL. This means that the two Abeking-Rasmussen build MCMV will have mothership capabilities for USV. Something that inline with latest trend of MCMV development.

This more capable then the other two MCMV of Tripartite class that eventough already has modernisation program by Hensoldt KRI Pulau Rengat 711 dan KRI Pulau Rupat 712 (Tripartite Class) Diretrofit oleh Hensoldt, Tuntas Tahun 2025, the retrofit mostly done to enhance sensors and CMS. However not enable them to become mother ship for USV.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member

View attachment 53079

Four USV from Exail call Inspector 90 for minehunter has been contracted by TNI-AL. This means that the two Abeking-Rasmussen build MCMV will have mothership capabilities for USV. Something that inline with latest trend of MCMV development.

This more capable then the other two MCMV of Tripartite class that eventough already has modernisation program by Hensoldt KRI Pulau Rengat 711 dan KRI Pulau Rupat 712 (Tripartite Class) Diretrofit oleh Hensoldt, Tuntas Tahun 2025, the retrofit mostly done to enhance sensors and CMS. However not enable them to become mother ship for USV.
This is actually incorrect. The Tripartite/Alkmaarklasse minehunters were from the beginning equipped with the PAP (Poisson Autopropulsé) USV.

 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
PAP on more as UUV not as USV. USV like Inspector 90 then also equiped with UUV. With this Pulau Fani will have more range then Pulau Renggat to deploy UUV, by using their USV as extended arm.

While Pulau Renggat has to deploy their UUV like PAP closer to their own ship, as they don't have USV that can be use as extended arm. This matter on range of search and also security to mother ship. Tripartite has to stand relatively closer to mine fields then more modern MCMV like Pulai Fani.

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Ananda

The Bunker Group

Another Video from Xavier that talk with Director of Noahtu Shipyard group. The shipyard of this group consist under Noahtu name (located in Lampung and Jakarta) and under Batamec name (located in Batam).

Xavier focus on two ships design (both already shown in this thread):
  1. OPV 90 (or 98m) that basically by TNI-AL already categories as Light Frigate,
  2. Army Disaster relief LCU.
#1 has been launch 2 of them from their yard in Lampung, while the third one in the building process. The Noahtu director talk about the MinDef need for up to 12 of this kind of ship class. So it is seems as speculate that it will be aim for Parchim replacement.

Personally I'm bit sceptical Parchim replacement will all use this OPV design, as another rival Corvette design (Bung Hatta class design) already shown by rival shipyard Karimun. I suspect the order will be devide between them.

As #2, it is clear now being build as Disaster relief vessels that have Hospital capabilities. Seems the Army wants their own hospital ships.

Add:
Two photo's that I got from Indonesian Enthusiats X account on this OPV 90
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
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From Keris FB, already see it since last night. However only have time to put here now. Yesterday MinDef Directorate General of Defense Potential (on that handle procurement projects), have discussion with PAL on the progress of FMP.

Basically it confirm the launching of 1st FMP Will be push back 3 months from end of this month to end of October. PAL also give guarantee that the delay will not effect the schedule for other 4 PAL main projects (2nd FMP, 2 Philippines and 1 UAE LPD/MRSS).

This is as suspected as when June Schedule being announce, practically many talks (base on rumours from PAL internal sources), already indicate later part of this year more achievable then mid of this year launching schedule.

Nobody want to admitted whose give the schedule of June for launching to Defense Minister. However I suspect someone in PAL top management. Seems the political rivalry in PAL or even DefendID (SOE MIC holding company) intensivied. Not a surprise there, when the organization rumours facing new managerial shake up soon.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member

Another Video from Xavier that talk with Director of Noahtu Shipyard group. The shipyard of this group consist under Noahtu name (located in Lampung and Jakarta) and under Batamec name (located in Batam).

Xavier focus on two ships design (both already shown in this thread):
  1. OPV 90 (or 98m) that basically by TNI-AL already categories as Light Frigate,
  2. Army Disaster relief LCU.
#1 has been launch 2 of them from their yard in Lampung, while the third one in the building process. The Noahtu director talk about the MinDef need for up to 12 of this kind of ship class. So it is seems as speculate that it will be aim for Parchim replacement.

Personally I'm bit sceptical Parchim replacement will all use this OPV design, as another rival Corvette design (Bung Hatta class design) already shown by rival shipyard Karimun. I suspect the order will be devide between them.

As #2, it is clear now being build as Disaster relief vessels that have Hospital capabilities. Seems the Army wants their own hospital ships.
About this video:

1. I dislike it when companies suddenly change their names. So PT Daya Radar Utama, Noahtu, Batamec..... what is the relationship between these companies? DRU (which has a shipyard in Lampung and Tanjung Priok Jakarta) changed suddenly to Noahtu and then bought Batamec Shipyards in Batam? Are Noahtu and Batamec two shipyards bought by DRU, or are DRU, Noahtu and Batamec part of a group owned by another company?

2. So this director is telling that the OPV98 / 98 meter long light frigate will not be only delivered complete with everything installed (and not FFBNW) but that it also has a Terma Scanter 4D radar. That is a quite remarkable statement, just to add an additional dimension. I mean looking on the website or official Youtube channel of Terma, we can find out that 4D radars from Terma do not exist. We can even come to the conclusion that “4D radar” is just a sales-promoting buzzword that has nothing to do with the fourth dimension in physics. (Radar Tutorial - 2D, 3D or 4D Radar? - Radartutorial)

3. If it is true that the replacement of the Parchim/Kapitan Pattimura will be divided between the DRU OPV98 and Karimun Anugrah Sejati’s KRI Bung Hatta design, then i hope that the last design will not end up like KRI Bung Karno 369, a disappointing patrolboat.

4. ADRI-LI and ADRI-LII are 1500 ton and around 99 meter long. ADRI-LIII is under construction will be larger and will have a displacement of 2500 ton, and now DRU is building the 65 m long ADRI-XCII, they are quite busy. Does this mean that TNI-AD already has another humanitarian aid/SAR ship, with the name ADRI-XCI?




View attachment 53082View attachment 53083

From Keris FB, already see it since last night. However only have time to put here now. Yesterday MinDef Directorate General of Defense Potential (on that handle procurement projects), have discussion with PAL on the progress of FMP.

Basically it confirm the launching of 1st FMP Will be push back 3 months from end of this month to end of October. PAL also give guarantee that the delay will not effect the schedule for other 4 PAL main projects (2nd FMP, 2 Philippines and 1 UAE LPD/MRSS).

This is as suspected as when June Schedule being announce, practically many talks (base on rumours from PAL internal sources), already indicate later part of this year more achievable then mid of this year launching schedule.

Nobody want to admitted whose give the schedule of June for launching to Defense Minister. However I suspect someone in PAL top management. Seems the political rivalry in PAL or even DefendID (SOE MIC holding company) intensivied. Not a surprise there, when the organization rumours facing new managerial shake up soon.
Hopefully this delay will indeed not cause delays for the other ships, and that this delay will not escalate.
This delay is maybe one of the good reasons to order two PPA frigates from Italy. We can not expect from PAL that they quickly build two large destroyer size frigates (for the first time) while building three LPDs for foreign customers, besides their other projects.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
DRU name in 90's actually is Noahtu, they change to DRU in early 2000, and change back again now to Noahtu. Why they done that is not clear, but suspicion is corporate image building. DRU CEO got tanggle on corruption case involving the building of Fisheries Protektion and Custom patrol boats KPK periksa tersangka kasus SKIPI KKP Aris Rustandi.

This case has delay OPV 90 development before. Seems the current management conduct corporate management shake up, and include changing the name back to Noahtu. Batamec it self on other hand has facing financial problem just last year Galangan Kapal Raksasa Batamec Ditetapkan Pailit, Kreditur Dapat Ajukan Tagihan ke Kurator. Thus I suspect potentially both being acquires by same Investor.

That Investor is the ones that continue finishing OPV 90 project in Noahtu and revamp Batamec. Remember the third OPV 90 eventough build in Batamec shipyard but under Noahtu contract. This usually indicate that whoever now control Noahtu also takin control Batamec after that Bankruptcy case last year. Noahtu basically become guarantor on the 3rd OPV project continuation. Noahtu now rumours controlled by family of one Senior Coordinating Minister from both Jokowi and Prabowo administration.

Just like Palindo now control by Republikorp, seems those large private shipyards now being backed by politically but also financially strong Investors. We can be cynical on that, but for me it is also shown Government don't want to give strategic orders to Shipyards that they don't quite sure have enough financial muscle to finish the job.

As for that 4D radar, yeahh I don't know what he means. The only 4D radar that before being bid for TNI-AL is Hendsoldt TRS-4D
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So I also don't know why Noahtu now call Terma Scanter radar. The info that I got before that Aselsan and Havelsan that will provide CMS and sensors. Thus let see how the final configuration will be, after all both OPV 90 currently on system installation stage.

As why Army now also wants disaster relief vessels that also double as Hospital ships, well why not. If Army can have LCU that have dimension close to Navy LST, why not they also have hospital/relief vessels ;). As whether they will finish it on schedulle, remain to be seen. However despite all problem that Noahtu has, their productivity record from what I gather is quite good. In fact most Private shipyards especially the large ones have better productivity track record compare to SOE shipyards (including PAL).

For Parchim replacement, well now MinDef already invest with two Corvette/Light Frigate designs. Usually they (MinDef) going to divide the order between the available designs. It is also part of political and financial support to local Shipyard.

We can not expect from PAL that they quickly build two large destroyer size frigates (for the first time) while building three LPDs for foreign customers, besides their other projects.
Yeah, I also sense PAL are overstrech. Beside those 5 main vessels project, they also involve with Corvette refurbishment (Fatahilla and Bung Tomo class). They also work out from other MRO projects like Philipines BRP Tarlac and I suspect later on it's sister.

This is why Fincantieri now working with other Private Yards to offer PPA batch 2 if Indonesia want to proceed. PAL in my opinion already over strech for this term. Now other Shipyard already shown they can handle Corvette-Light Frigate projects, perhaps time to let them to have more projects.
 

koxinga

Well-Known Member
As for that 4D radar, yeahh I don't know what he means. The only 4D radar that before being bid for TNI-AL is Hendsoldt TRS-4D
He meant Aselsan CENK 400-N. Aselsan CENK series, they use 4D term in marketing.
CENK 400-N is a 4D AESA naval radar system with GaN based solid-state transmit/receive modules. With its modern and innovative architecture, CENK 400-N incorporates advanced digital signal processing, pulse compression capability, simultaneous multiple target tracking, electronic beam stabilization, short response time, and advanced electronic protection techniques.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
Aselsan CENK 400-N. Aselsan CENK series, they use 4D term in marketing.
The confusion come as in video he talk about 4D Scanter. That's why it is raise question on what he means as previous information talk about Aselsan-Havelsan Electronics and Sensors.

Add:
From Keris FB on today inspection for FMP

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From JPNN online
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In that progress, October time schedule is more doable for launching ceremony. After all Indonesian bureaucracy are big in ceremony to shown their KPI achievement.


Seems according to this article, after launch the first FMP will be deliver to TNI-AL without full weapon and system. However it will be back to PAL in 2027 for full weapon and system. I suspect after launch it will be deliver as Main Contract stage, then in 2027 will then be completed as FFBNW Contract stage. Thus two stage delivery.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
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Keris FB put more photos on different angles on FMP progress from Yesterday MinDef inspection.
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Seems from Bow to Aft of lower hull modules already assembled. Now they are assemble stages of upper superstructure. If the progress continue like this, seems October schedule for launch can be achieved.

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Ananda

The Bunker Group

Xavier Video on PAL display on all it's present and ongoing naval products. Also add photos from that display from X Account of same Indonesian Enthusiats

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The display shown:
KCR 60 fast missile boats,
  • Nagasa (209-1400) class submarine,
  • Scorpene Evo class submarine,
  • PKR10514 Sigma Light Frigate,
  • FMP Arrowhead 140 Frigate,
  • 124m LPD (Makasar Class derives)
  • 124m Hospital Ship,
  • 163m MRSS Al Maryah class
Also add:
Two of TAIS design that from what I gather have serious discussion to be procured and work together with Indonesian shipyard:
1. AOR,
2. Istanbul class.

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Indonesian Navy reported shown interest for larger AOR design around more than 160m. The Bontang class AOR that's being build by local shipyard are in the class of 123m, and designed for handling up to light frigate and more green water operations.

With the larger Frigate (FMP and PPA) and potentially Drone/Light Carrier come to inventory, it is talk that TNI-AL want to find at least one or two larger blue water capable AOR. This to replace the only blue water AOR that they have the sole ex Green Rover KRI Arun.

While Istanbul class being talked as continuation for Light Frigate program of Damen 10514. Despite FMP/Arrowhead 140 and PPA, I suspect more Light Frigate will become backbone of TNI-AL Frigates fleet in future.
 

koxinga

Well-Known Member
The obvious immediate solution are the two AOR (Wave) that the UK are selling. Depending on what source, at least one of them are believed to be spoken for.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
One of the Wave class as AOR replacement for KRI Arun already being discussed from what I heard. Heard of one Wave already been sloted for either Brazil or Chile. Either way the problem will be politics of 2nd hand assets this days.

Getting 2nd hand Light Carrier is one thing, as they can argue politically a Light Carrier is still beyond local yards capabilities. However an AOR I presume will raise questions from local shipyard 'lobby'.

Unless they go with "interim" argument again to cover budget discrepencies. Either way, getting one of Wave class AOR will good move in my opinion also.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
I wonder if France already tried to offer one of their Durand Class replenishment oilers. These vessels are smaller, at least 13 years older, and i expect because of this a lower price can be asked for.

The Vesuvio A5329 is too old and only slightly larger than the Tarakan class. The Etna A5326 is larger and two decades younger than Vesuvio, but still in use by the Marina Militare.
 
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