Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Sandhi Yudha]

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From KERIS FB, As another yard in Batam progressing on KCR/FMB 60 program. Seems this indicating PAL move away from smaller size combatants, and focus more on major combatants program. While smaller size combatants whether FMB, FPB, and OPV will be progressing more with private yards in Batam or Lampung area.

Thank you for sharing. Sadly they don't give any information about the costs, equipment and schedule for delivery.

"KCR 60 dengan desain baru." Does this mean we have to regard this as the KCR-60 Batch IV or as a whole new class with just the same length of the Sampari Class?

 

[Ananda]

From external profile seems it is different class altogether from PAL Sampari. In sense Palindo using their own design and not PAL. Local forums speculating they are collaborate with Turkish yard for the design. Either way it is seems increasingly not based on Sampari design.

Add:
Don't forget this KCR 60 from another private yard in Bekasi/Jakarta area. This is also 60m Patrol boat that move away from PAL Sampari class design. Thus what Palindo done with progressing using their own design for KCR 60 is not the first private yard that move away from PAL design.

 

[Ananda]

https://tni.mil.id/view-242263-koarmada-ii-ikuti-fpc-orruda-2024.html

Indonesian Navy officers and their Russian Counterpart conducting preparation session for joint exercise Orruda. Shown just like India, despite increasingly joint exercise and coordination with US and Allies, they will also maintaining relationship including exercise with Russian and even Chinese.

This conducted in similar time when US Indo-Pac command make visit to increase co-op with TNI-AL.

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[Ananda]

Local forums speculating they are collaborate with Turkish yard for the design. Either way it is seems increasingly not based on Sampari design.

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GBP Website claim that KCR 60 build by Palindo is part from 2 Missile Boats that order from Turkiye TAIS in last IndoDefense. If this is really TAIS base design, then it is actually 65M with Turkiye 76mm gun and ATMACA SSM.

OPV 90 (actually 98m) that's Noahtu building at this moment also being talk using Turkiye SEWACO. So the arrival of Turkiye systems toward TNI-AL inventory seems already begin trickling down. There's also conflicting information on Red-White Frigate (FMP) final missile configuration. Which for me means Aster vs Hisar not getting final decisions yet. However personally I believe if PPA will use Aster, then MBDA chances against Roketsan for FMP increase.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Global Business Press | Publishes World Defence Technology, Asian Airlines & Aerospace, and Daily News

gbp.com.sg

GBP Website claim that KCR 60 build by Palindo is part from 2 Missile Boats that order from Turkiye TAIS in last IndoDefense. If this is really TAIS base design, then it is actually 65M with Turkiye 76mm gun and ATMACA SSM.

OPV 90 (actually 98m) that's Noahtu building at this moment also being talk using Turkiye SEWACO. So the arrival of Turkiye systems toward TNI-AL inventory seems already begin trickling down. There's also conflicting information on Red-White Frigate (FMP) final missile configuration. Which for me means Aster vs Hisar not getting final decisions yet. However personally I believe if PPA will use Aster, then MBDA chances against Roketsan for FMP increase.

Turkish CMS and weapon systems together on the OPV 90 and, let's call it KCR-65 is maybe still acceptable. But because we already have Hollandse Signaalapparaten (Thales Nederland) and Terma for many years, it is in my opinion more logic to put these two brands on the two Arrowhead 140/FMP, like on the original Iver Huitfeldts, instead to go for Aselsan. I mean, for the PPA we certainly get Fimmeccanica/SELEX systems and for the FTI Thomson-CSF (Thales France) stuff.

Yes i know, many politicians do not like logic and efficiency, so we just have to see what comes.




KRI Balongan 908, the third ship of the Tarakan Class of replenishment ships, was launched on 22 September 2022...

Batamec Rampungkan Pembuatan KRI Balongan 908 – Metropolis

batampos – Batamec, salah satu galangan kapal di Pulau Batam berhasil merampungkan proyek pembuatan kapal pesanan TNI AL. Jumat (2/9/2022) KRI Balongan 908 diluncurkan dari dok PT Batamec. KRI Balongan 908 ialah kapal Bantu Cair Minyak (BCM). Kapal ini mulai dibikin pada 5 Agustus 2020 ditandai...

metro.batampos.co.id

And now at last, after almost two years, it is almost finished.

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[Ananda]

But because we already have Hollandse Signaalapparaten (Thales Nederland) and Terma for many years, it is in my opinion more logic to put these two brands on the two Arrowhead 140/FMP, like on the original Iver Huitfeldts, instead to go for Aselsan.

Well there's new player for the Frigates, which is Leonardo. FMP seems going to have Leonardo Kronos just like PPA. Thales-MBDA vs Aselsan-Roketsan, more likely in AAW missiles and the sensors support them.

 

[Ananda]

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From MinDef online sites, on the video of Turkiye MALE UAV Bayraktar Akinci and TAI ANKA. Something that usually means the contract already on the way for potential activation, when MinDef sites put it.

This basically going to take some pressure of from MPA's fleet.

Add:


This old news paper from 70's being put by Keris FB. Shown this as shown that USSR actually not put embargoes toward TNI after Soekarno fall. What they have done is simply ask cash payment and not giving credit line anymore for defense procurement (including spare parts). Shown that Indonesia defense procurement always depends on Credit line.

Thus for those in Indonesian online community talking about Credit Line being use only recently, well they should also look at this old papers. Credit Lines already been used since Soekarno era, toward Soeharto and until now. Because it is the easier way for finance people in planning procurement.

 

[Ananda]

This is basically confirmation that Bayraktar Akinci will be the MALE UCAV for TNI-AL. This is also means MPA budget going to be divided with this MALE UAV/UCAV program for maritime surveillance and aerial interdiction functions.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

This is basically confirmation that Bayraktar Akinci will be the MALE UCAV for TNI-AL. This is also means MPA budget going to be divided with this MALE UAV/UCAV program for maritime surveillance and aerial interdiction functions.

It is a great looking and very capable UAV, but wasn't the Bayraktar Akinci powered by Ivchenko-Progress AI-450S engines? I think this will cause problems for production and delivery, or does Turkiye produce these engines under licence?

 

[swerve]

The Motor Sich plant was wrecked by the Russians, but Ivchenko should be able to supply all the plans, & perhaps Motor Sich engineers could help set up manufacturing in Turkey, if it's not already made there.

 

[Ananda]

Turkey details Akinci armed UAV programme

The Presidency of the Turkish Defence Industries (SSB) has revealed fresh details of its Akinci (Raider) armed unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), which is under development...

www.janes.com

Turkey claim all their UAV already use Tusas engine. According to Jane's, Tusas PD class from PD-170 (use by Anka) and PD-222 (use by Akinci) are result from Tusas work with GE.

Turkiye forums talk the work with Motorsich mostly related to Turbofan.

 

[Ananda]

I can't help it to post this, but this is hilarious. Yes as Euro Salesmen, Twitter guys can talk down competitors, but come on do basic research first. He base much on his case to talk down China offer to Indonesia on S26T Submarine base on Thailand case.

His insistence that Thailand reject the deal because China can't secure German engines, is basically old stories.

Thailand agrees with China to go ahead with sub deal

Replacing submarine with frigate not viable, negotiators on both sides say

www.nationthailand.com

Thailand reverses course on 2023 submarine decision and will now proceed with a Chinese-made engine - Thai Examiner

Thailand backs down on cancellation of the submarine contract, a cabinet decision made in 2023. Now, it agrees to proceed with the Chinese engine after… Read More ›

www.thaiexaminer.com

Simple Google search can find that in May, Thailand already reverse their positions on Chinese engines.

So if Tweeter guy want to push down Chinese equipment as low standards quality, well again it is fair game within sales lobbying. Put fake face as defense 'expert' and not salesman toward gullible audiences and local media, is also part of the public campaign game from some defense 'insiders' aka salesman. However do better research first for crying out loud.

 

[Ananda]

Dua Kapal Fregat Merah Putih TNI AL Diharapkan Bisa Beroperasi pada 2028

Produksi dua kapal fregat Merah Putih untuk TNI AL diharapkan bisa selesai satu hingga dua tahun lagi.

nasional.kompas.com

More official time table from LEN CEO who also Defend ID (SOE MIC Holding) CEO on FMP Frigate. He is giving 2025/26 as time table to launch the Frigates, and 2028/29 as completion to users. Add also FMP going to use Turkiye CMS, thus confirmation on Aselsan getting the sensors integration job.

Interesting also as outside Leonardo that got Kronos and 76mm main gun contract, no mention on Thales in here. Will this means Aselsan-Roketsan beats Thales-MBDA on not only CMS but also missiles set up ? Will this also means Turkiye VLS (MIDLAS) and not MBDA VLS (SYLVER) ? Will this means HISAR and not ASTER? Now that's still being speculating.

 

[Ananda]

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Keris FB page shown progress on OPV 90 (98 more precise) in Noahtu Shipyards. Both OPV already with Superstructure begin to assemble in the hull. This OPV/Corvette in my opinion at least already one year late from schedule.

Some opinion blame it on changing design, some others blame it on miscalculation from shipyard part on working capital cash flow. I suspect part of both.

 

[koxinga]

Well, you size your working capital based on the project parameters/schedule. If the project parameters and requirement change, and you drag it out, the cash flow will be hit as well, since the government probably pays by milestones.

 

[Ananda]

Exactly why I suspect both factor become part of problem. If the changes come from the user order, then by contract they will not going to proceed on construction if they (the yard) has not get changes on contract to remedy changes in cost. On other hand if the design changes also coming from Yard/builder adjustment, then the yard that has to beared the costs. At this moment I'm still try to find from whose parties the changes originated. So far the rumours that I got indicating the changes originated from both parties. Thus if that really happen, the yard as builders has to beared some of the cost accociate.

That's where the talk saying the Yard (Noahtu) has some cash flow problem toward adjustments on their part of costs due design changes. Seems the matter has been resolved, but creating delays on the production pace. Just hope after this, they haven't face another delay. If there's another delay, I suspect more likely coming from Yard management

KSAL ungkap rencana tambah LPD dan LST untuk perkuat Kolinlamil

Kepala Staf TNI Angkatan Laut (KSAL) Laksamana TNI Muhammad Ali saat puncak peringatan HUT Ke-63 Kolinlamil di Jakarta, Selasa, mengungkap rencana menambah ...

www.antaranews.com

Antara News Agency put article on Navy Chief information on additional LST and LPD for Military Sea Lift Command. This means East German LST seems getting schedule to be replaced. Previous LST replacement are aiming toward ex USN and South Korean build LST.

 

[Ananda]

As certified 'Frenchie' salesman, the tweeter guy implies two things in his video:

• NG attention to Market FDI basically as FREMM alternatives to Indonesia,
• The program they after is the previous FREMM program with Fincantieri, which so far being hold. PPA is the main rival for the program.

Seems the speculation on procurement of FREMM really being reconsider in my opinion. Not only the change of Fincantieri procurement (perhaps can say it 1st batch), already change to PPA from FREMM, but also the new 'vigor' of NG sales drive for FDI shown they are see opining chances.

FDI previously being offer by NG, but later on FREMM coming to initial contract. FDI has something that TNI-AL so far has preferences. Just as Arrowhead 140/FMP it is CODAD/Full Diesel Propulsion. On other hand Fincantieri will fight with PPA to regain the previous contract batches.

On this stage, from 12 Frigates plan that Prabowo already mentioned before, perhaps it will result to 4 FMP/Arrowhead 140, 4 PPA, and 4 FDI. Got a feeling base in PAL connection with NG, they (NG) still got piece of Frigate Pie divided between Babcock and Fincantieri.

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PAL shown this photo few days ago, which seems shown blocks from FMP Frigates being put out from Fabrication Sheed toward their largest Graving Dock. The Media talk early this year, that in later part of this year, blocks of FMP Frigates will begin assemble in the Graving Dock. Seems they are begin to do this.

 

[Ananda]

TNI-AL Chief in China visiting 2 Shipyard (Jiangnan in Shanghai and Wuchang in Wuhan) and UAV producers. Jiangnan Shipyard is producers of Chinese Frigates and Destroyers, while Wuchang is the shipyard in Wuhan that specialized in PLA SSK.

Indonesia holds second meeting with CSSC on S26T submarine as China sweetens deal with destroyer

Officials from China State Shipbuilding Corporation (CSSC) have attended a second meeting with the Indonesian Ministry of Defense (MoD) to discuss the former's offer of...

www.janes.com

Follow up the visit to Jiangnan and Wuchang Shipyard, Chinese follow up with both S26 and Type 52D. Jane's seems talk as Type 52D as sweetener for S26, while some local defense forums talk otherwise. I tend to agree with the later that the S26T (similar specs with Thailand ones) being offered as sweetener deal for Type 52D.

The offer for Type 52D seems being look quite serious by TNI-AL and MinDef brass that certain Frenchie Salesman feel it's FDI deal can be threatened by this. Nice try to include PPA as the deal more or less already secure. Thus clearly if Indonesia taking this Type 52D, it will be at the cost of FDI, instead PPA that's much more secure.

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Jane's article talk the S26T being offered is the Submarine that hasn't been taken by Thailand. This as Chinese sees potential for Indonesian interim Submarine. I tend to disagree (on Thailand stock), as Thailand MEDIA so far still say their Government still wiling to negotiate on taking that S26T.

Either way it is increasingly clear that whatever interim Submarine option, it will be very likely will not be build in PAL facility. As asside the 2 sub being contracted already, there's potential another batch of Scorpene. Thus PAL facility very likely will be fully committed with NG for at least a decade.

https://tni.mil.id/view-243465-kasal-pembangunan-kapal-pc-60-m-realisasi-dalam-mencapai-visi-tni-al-2045.html

Peluncuran dua kapal PC 60 M TNI AL | ANTARA Foto

Sejumlah pekerja bersiap meluncurkan dua kapal perang tipe Patroli Cepat (PC) 60 M di Galangan Kapal PT Caputra Mitra Sejati, Kabupaten Serang, Banten, Jumat (12/7/2024). TNI AL

www.antarafoto.com

Another PC-60M Patrol Boat being delivered by local shipyard. This is from CMS Shipyard in Banten Province (near Jakarta). This type of vessels will be use mostly by secondary and tertiary Naval Base as their patrol assets. This two has been sloted for Tarakan Naval Base in Northern Kalimantan province and Merauke Naval Base in Southern Papua. Will have Marlin 40mm main gun and 3 12.7 gun as secondary ones.

 

[Ananda]

Turkifikasi Kapal Perang Indonesia

Independensi Turki dalam mengembangkan berbagai alutsista, hingga transaksi yang dilakukan tidak rawan embargo, seperti lazimnya dilakukan Amerika Serikat TURKI... | Halaman Lengkap

nasional.sindonews.com

The talk of Turkification on Indonesian Navy SEWACO system has been around for sometime. This article talk on potential not only being use for OPV 90 and FMP (Arrowhead 140), but also for 41 refurbished vessels from existing Fleet.

This actually already being talk much before, however despite strong push politically for Turkish products (due to industrial and tech co-op), I do see the product from Thales, MBDA and Leonardo can still get piece of pie.

Despite talk of Indonesia join program with Turkiye for Milgem Destroyer TF-2000, I still got sense the co-op most likely not on the platform, but more on SEWACO. Who knows they are sourcing Type 52D from China on FFBNW specs and doing SEWACO integration with Turkiye products.

 

[Ananda]

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PAL FB shown photos on FMP (Arrowhead 140) blocks being position around their largest Graving Dock. Some can say this means the progress for FMB still far away. However it is also means that they are still on schedule from beginning this year (as I already put in previous post dated 8th of this month).

This means the Graving Dock already have slot to begin assembly the blocks. So far the blocks still being fabricated inside Fabrication facility, and now seems begin to be assemble together.

However this means that present PAL facility can't engage on more project as they are now fully engaged with 2 Philippines Navy LPD, 1 UAE Navy LPD, and 2 FMP Frigates. Thus other Frigates order done either has to be build on overseas Yard, or other private yards (if still want to build in Indonesia). This reflecting why Fincantieri now engaging with Noahtu Yard for potential next Indonesian order.

On that matter, Defend ID as Indonesian MIC Holding, already put plan to acquire new yard for PAL. This from what I heard potentially either acquire Private Yard, or merge other SOE yard under PAL.

Perkuat Industri Pertahanan, PT Len Minta Suntikan Duit Rp 2 T dari Negara

Induk BUMN Pertahanan atau DEFEND ID PT Len Industri (Persero) mengusulkan Penyertaan Modal Negara (PMN) sebesar Rp 2 triliun untuk tahun 2025.

finance.detik.com

LEN as SOE MIC holding calculate they need close to USD 500mio on further investment. Which include in that acquisition of Shipyard. Some of the investment need to get fresh injection from Government, other from their own internal source.