Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Ananda]

El astillero Freire construirá una goleta para Indonesia, de 52 millones de inversión

Freire Shipyard from Spain got USD 70 mio or Euro 52 mio contract to build Tall Sailship for Indonesian Navy. The sites show the image of the new tall sailship design, which considersbly larger than 60 years old KRI Dewa Rutji training tall sailship that being replaced.

Some info from TNI-AL indicated even with this replacement the older tall sailship seems going to be maintain on the active fleet, eventhough in much more diminish role.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

El astillero Freire construirá una goleta para Indonesia, de 52 millones de inversión

Freire Shipyard from Spain got USD 70 mio or Euro 52 mio contract to build Tall Sailship for Indonesian Navy. The sites show the image of the new tall sailship design, which considersbly larger than 60 years old KRI Dewa Rutji training tall sailship that being replaced.

Some info from TNI-AL indicated even with this replacement the older tall sailship seems going to be maintain on the active fleet, eventhough in much more diminish role.

Impressive.
From which i understand (my Spanish isn't that good) it will be 110m long with 3350 sq meters of sail and place for 200 persons incl 20 kadets and instructors...
(Hore.. just exceeded 300 posts!)
Thats almost as twice as big as the KRI Dewaruci.
BTW, TNI-AL also still has a smaller sailboat, KRI Arung Samudra, but info about this boat is very difficult to find on the internet.

I wonder what the new name will be, KRI Dewaruci II, like Rainbow Warrior II?
Dewaruci is such a famous name.
(picture taken from another forum)

 

[Ananda]

The present dewarutji is the most ocean going vessel on Indonesian Navy. She has criss-cross world ocean and conduct international visit much more than any other vessel larger then her in TNI-AL inventory now and past. She has made good job as ambassador for Indonesian Navy and Indonesian Armed Forces.

The new vessels not only hoped to have bigger capacity, but also better living conditions, thus enable her to conduct more efficient international trip and training then Dewarutji did. Thus, it is no surprise she will be considerable larger than Dewarutji. It will be interesting to learn what name she will beared, since she has big shoes to replace the legend within Indonesian Navy.

For Arung Samudra, from what I gather, she is not intended as ocean going vessels, no also she's being prepared for large contingent of cadet onboard.

 

[Ananda]

North West Evening Mail | News | BAE Systems ships at centre of dispute set to leave Barrow docks after years in limbo

Local media in Barrow, UK seems already confirmed that the 3 Nahkoda Ragam Light Frigates/Corvettes will soon be transfered to Indonesia. Whille in the Indonesian forum and media, indication that the deal close to be finished, although not 100% yet.

VL Mica Untuk TNI-AL | Angkasa Readers Community
Local forum indicated that the budget for VLS MICA already being allocated, indication for 6 unit. The talk of this 6 unit open to speculation that 3 unit will be for 3 ex NR, and the other 3 will be for PKR/Sigma 105 light frigates that being constructed, although official confirmation show only 2 PKR/Sigma that confirmed on the contract for construction.

Anyway, the talk of this 6 units of VL Mica still open to speculations, whether 1 unit means 1 set unit of VL launchers or also included the missiles. There is possibility that 1 unit means one set box of launchers (each with 6-8 cells). Which means 1 NR Corvette/Light Frigate will possibility use 2 set/unit, thus this 6 unit being budgeted will all go to 3 ex NR. Thus the VL MICA for PKR, is not being allocated yet.

Well will have to see.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

North West Evening Mail | News | BAE Systems ships at centre of dispute set to leave Barrow docks after years in limbo

Local media in Barrow, UK seems already confirmed that the 3 Nahkoda Ragam Light Frigates/Corvettes will soon be transfered to Indonesia. Whille in the Indonesian forum and media, indication that the deal close to be finished, although not 100% yet.

VL Mica Untuk TNI-AL | Angkasa Readers Community
Local forum indicated that the budget for VLS MICA already being allocated, indication for 6 unit. The talk of this 6 unit open to speculation that 3 unit will be for 3 ex NR, and the other 3 will be for PKR/Sigma 105 light frigates that being constructed, although official confirmation show only 2 PKR/Sigma that confirmed on the contract for construction.

Anyway, the talk of this 6 units of VL Mica still open to speculations, whether 1 unit means 1 set unit of VL launchers or also included the missiles. There is possibility that 1 unit means one set box of launchers (each with 6-8 cells). Which means 1 NR Corvette/Light Frigate will possibility use 2 set/unit, thus this 6 unit being budgeted will all go to 3 ex NR. Thus the VL MICA for PKR, is not being allocated yet.

Well will have to see.

"Which means 1 NR Corvette/Light Frigate will possibility use 2 set/unit, thus this 6 unit being budgeted will all go to 3 ex NR. Thus the VL MICA for PKR, is not being allocated yet."
O yes, i did not thought about it.
Some people think the 3 NR class and the two SIGMA10514 ships will each get 1 MICA VLS, and the sixth will be for KRI Fatahillah which will be updated in the near future. But its unlikely because there will be no room for it, unless they remove the Bofors twin 375 mm ASW mortir from KRI Fatahillah and replace it with the MICA VLS. But even then, i think that small platform is too small for it.

 

[Ananda]

"Which means 1 NR Corvette/Light Frigate will possibility use 2 set/unit, thus this 6 unit being budgeted will all go to 3 ex NR. Thus the VL MICA for PKR, is not being allocated yet."
O yes, i did not thought about it.
Some people think the 3 NR class and the two SIGMA10514 ships will each get 1 MICA VLS.

The problem, no explanation yet on what a 'unit' means. Looking to MBDA sites, seems indicating a unit means a box of canisters set each can vary from 4 to 8 missiles.

Found a picture on line from brazilian site which show 1 box of VL Mica consists of 8 canisters. So, if this the unit that TNI means, than considering the sizes of NR corvetes area that used to housed VL Seawolf canisters, I suspect 2 Unit need to be put to fill that area.

Again, until more clarification can be found, it's open to speculation.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The problem, no explanation yet on what a 'unit' means. Looking to MBDA sites, seems indicating a unit means a box of canisters set each can vary from 4 to 8 missiles.

Found a picture on line from brazilian site which show 1 box of VL Mica consists of 8 canisters. So, if this the unit that TNI means, than considering the sizes of NR corvetes area that used to housed VL Seawolf canisters, I suspect 2 Unit need to be put to fill that area.

Again, until more clarification can be found, it's open to speculation.

Its difficult to find information about the VL Mica-M.
You can find some info at Mica Vertical Launch Short-Range Air-Defence System - Army Technology
There they say the range is "more than 10 km" / at least 12 km.
Missile length 3.1m
Missile diameter 16cm
Wing span 48cm
Launch weight 112kg
Warhead 12kg
Speed Over Mach 3

But here you can find more accurate info:
Missile systems, defence systems - MBDA missiles

You can see images of the missiles in the containers/canisters, and it looks like you can choose the amount of canisters in the VLS by yourself.
But here they tell that the wingspan is 32 cm and not 48 cm....
Well, take a look by yourself... silakan..

The Seawolf has a wingspan of 45 cm (if im not wrong those wings are not folded in the canisters). The Nakhoda Ragam Class is equipped with a 16-cell Seawolf launcher, so i expect the amount of MICAs that will be installed in every ship will not differ too much.

 

[Ananda]

Russia offers Indonesia diesel electric submarines - IHS Jane's 360

This talk about 'used' Rusian SSK (presumably Kilo's) seems already moving from local media, to International media. This talk come out from what I heard after the Minister of Defence being pestered by some politicians in parliament for Russian submarines.

It's not a secret some factions in parliament were and are still adamant on getting more defence procurement from Russia due to (suspected) hard lobby from some politically connected sales 'agent'. Moreover some factions also used the matter of submarine procurement from ROK as political ammunition. Accusing the administration for wrongful procurement practise, with they blame ROK submarines are not manufactured on approved schedule due to tecnological matter and raise doubt on ROK willingness on helping Indonesian yard in getting appropriate technology and ability in manufacturing submarine locally.

What I'm affraid for is with 2014 looming, the defense procurement can be used as political bargaining chips, and not what for the real benefit of defence development and operation. Well it's not unheard of in any 'democratic' process anyway.

 

[koxinga]

DSEI 2013: Indonesia signs for Thales TACTICOS system - News - Shephard

Speaking at the DSEI conference in London, Boudewijn Geerink, business development manager, naval systems for Thales, told journalists that Indonesia had signed a formal contract for the MK4 system for its new frigate, with the probable option for a second at a later date.

The SIGMA 10514 guided missile frigate was purchased by Indonesia in 2012 as part of a modernisation of the Indonesian Navy, and is slated for delivery in 2016. It follows on from four SIGMA Corvettes previously purchased for the TNI AL.

TACTICOS is a family of modular combat management systems, matched to a variety of mission profiles and vessel types. The MK4 is the most recent iteration, and features a new single screen console and enhanced graphical software.

Geerink explained the 30 inch single screen console is designed to provide an optimal viewing range for the human eye, and provides a graphical way of interacting with the common controls.

‘With the new MK4 system, both maritime security and combat operations can be performed from a single console. The MK4 is more intuitive and meets young officer’s interaction standards. In addition, training emphasis is moved from ‘button training’ to tactical training,’ said Geerink

TACTICOS technology is already used on board more than 160 ships (from small patrol craft to full-size frigates and destroyers) operated by 20 navies.

Those include the US Navy as well as navies in Asia, Europe, the Gulf region, Latin America, the Middle East and North Africa

 

[Ananda]

Indonesian Navy Chief Interview in Warships

There's quite interesting interview in Sept 2013 editions of IFR Warships with Indonesian Naval Chief Admiral Marsetio. Basically the interview talk about current development program for Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL). I don't have the on line link, however on the summary:

1. 2 PKR (Light Frigates) Sigma 10514 already contracted, with 1 in the building process. The First one will have Bridge-Command control and Machinery modules build by Damen Shipyard in Netherland. While Damen Shipyard in Romania handle Mid Section module. PT. PAL in Surabaya handle Forward and Stern hull modules, and also Superstructures blocks. All final assembly will be conducted in PT. PAL facility in Surabaya. The 2nd PKR expected all modules will then being taken over the constructions by PT. PAL.

2. The constructions of 3 Type 209/1400 Submarines with Daewoo (DSME) as follows; The first one being build entirely by DSME resources and scheduled being delivered in 2015. The second one still build in DSME facilities but with Involvement of PT. PAL resources and scheduled to be delivered by 2018, while the third one will be build entirely in PT. PAL 'newly build' submarine assembly facilities and scheduled to be delivered in 2021.

3. All patrol ships will be gradually replaced by 3 indigenous design of FAC-M (call KCR). KCR 40 by Palindo, KCR 60 by PAL, and KCR 63 Trimaran by Lundin/North Sea Boats. Even though the First KCR 63 Trimaran destroyed in the fire accidents, the program will still continue.

4. 3 ex Nahkoda Ragam procurement has been completed, and the 3 ex NR corvettes/OPV being scheduled to be delivered by 2014. The Navy also constructed 2 Replenishment Oilers from local Shipyard, also up to 12 LST locally for replacement of ex East German Frosch 1 class LST.

5. Navy Air Arm will received 5 CN-235 MPA and 11 ASW Helicopters. Also the Marine will get additional 37 BMP-3F, 14 BTR80A and 35 LVTP-7;

6. Despite speculations, all 6 Van Speijk Frigates will not going to be replaced by Sigma PKR 10514. The modifications on the sensors and electronic and armament of Van Speijks (the Steam engine has been replaced by CODAD arrangements), considered enough to make them operational for some time in the future. The 6 Frigates Harpoon SSM has been replaced by Yakhont on 1 ship, C-802 in 2 ships, and C-705 in the other 3.

All in all, the interview clarifies several speculations that being move around in the media and local forum/analysts. For me the interview show more reasonable process than many politically motivated talked by those 'IDIOTs' in Parliament. For instances, off course PT. PAL resources is not included in the constructions, well the contract stated that the first one being constructed entirely by DSME resources. Besides PT. PAL resources did not have the know how to constructed submarine in the first places. They're going to be learned on the 2nd ones. Meantime, how they are (PT.PAL) going to be fasten in constructing summaries locally, when even the facilities to constructed the submarine has not finished being build in the first places.

For the SSM, seems it's clear that TNI-AL will standardize its SSM in the future with C-705, which has been in the process for local build.

Hope this interview can give more clarifications on the development process in TNI-AL.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

There's quite interesting interview in Sept 2013 editions of IFR Warships with Indonesian Naval Chief Admiral Marsetio. Basically the interview talk about current development program for Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL). I don't have the on line link, however on the summary:

1. 2 PKR (Light Frigates) Sigma 10514 already contracted, with 1 in the building process. The First one will have Bridge-Command control and Machinery modules build by Damen Shipyard in Netherland. While Damen Shipyard in Romania handle Mid Section module. PT. PAL in Surabaya handle Forward and Stern hull modules, and also Superstructures blocks. All final assembly will be conducted in PT. PAL facility in Surabaya. The 2nd PKR expected all modules will then being taken over the constructions by PT. PAL.

2. The constructions of 3 Type 209/1400 Submarines with Daewoo (DSME) as follows; The first one being build entirely by DSME resources and scheduled being delivered in 2015. The second one still build in DSME facilities but with Involvement of PT. PAL resources and scheduled to be delivered by 2018, while the third one will be build entirely in PT. PAL 'newly build' submarine assembly facilities and scheduled to be delivered in 2021.

3. All patrol ships will be gradually replaced by 3 indigenous design of FAC-M (call KCR). KCR 40 by Palindo, KCR 60 by PAL, and KCR 63 Trimaran by Lundin/North Sea Boats. Even though the First KCR 63 Trimaran destroyed in the fire accidents, the program will still continue.

4. 3 ex Nahkoda Ragam procurement has been completed, and the 3 ex NR corvettes/OPV being scheduled to be delivered by 2014. The Navy also constructed 2 Replenishment Oilers from local Shipyard, also up to 12 LST locally for replacement of ex East German Frosch 1 class LST.

5. Navy Air Arm will received 5 CN-235 MPA and 11 ASW Helicopters. Also the Marine will get additional 37 BMP-3F, 14 BTR80A and 35 LVTP-7;

6. Despite speculations, all 6 Van Speijk Frigates will not going to be replaced by Sigma PKR 10514. The modifications on the sensors and electronic and armament of Van Speijks (the Steam engine has been replaced by CODAD arrangements), considered enough to make them operational for some time in the future. The 6 Frigates Harpoon SSM has been replaced by Yakhont on 1 ship, C-802 in 2 ships, and C-705 in the other 3.

All in all, the interview clarifies several speculations that being move around in the media and local forum/analysts. For me the interview show more reasonable process than many politically motivated talked by those 'IDIOTs' in Parliament. For instances, off course PT. PAL resources is not included in the constructions, well the contract stated that the first one being constructed entirely by DSME resources. Besides PT. PAL resources did not have the know how to constructed submarine in the first places. They're going to be learned on the 2nd ones. Meantime, how they are (PT.PAL) going to be fasten in constructing summaries locally, when even the facilities to constructed the submarine has not finished being build in the first places.

For the SSM, seems it's clear that TNI-AL will standardize its SSM in the future with C-705, which has been in the process for local build.

Hope this interview can give more clarifications on the development process in TNI-AL.

Thank you very much for your clear summary. It gives a good overview of the near future of TNI-AL.
Do you mind if i copy this and place it on another discussion forum (ofcourse with a "summary made by Ananda of Defencetalk")?
Wauw, first Type 209 in 2015, second in 2018 and third in 2021, at the earliest.... at that time the first generations Type 209-1300 will be around 41 years old....
Btw, whats the official name of the three new ones? Type 209-1300+ or Type 209-1300NG?

 

[Ananda]

Thank you very much for your clear summary. It gives a good overview of the near future of TNI-AL.
Do you mind if i copy this and place it on another discussion forum (ofcourse with a "summary made by Ananda of Defencetalk")?
Wauw, first Type 209 in 2015, second in 2018 and third in 2021, at the earliest.... at that time the first generations Type 209-1300 will be around 41 years old....
Btw, whats the official name of the three new ones? Type 209-1300+ or Type 209-1300NG?

Go ahead, it's a summary of an article in the IFR Warships anyway. As for official name, I think the DSME sites call it DSME 209/1400. For me the stages on 209 procurement from DSME make sense and not clutered by Parliament members comment which are basically politically bias.

How do they expected PAL enginers/resources to involved with construction of the first subs, when they do not have experience on subs construction to begin with. Off course in the first sub, DSME only allowed them to watch and learn by observing first. They can begin active involvement on the second subs construction, when they already learned the basics on subs construction. PAL CEO complain this on the media, stating that he did not know the stages because not being involved in the deal on the first places. Well he can complaint a lot, but it did not change the fact that his resources has to learn from the basics and in stages. How the 'idiots' politicians talked for immediate PAL involvement in construction, when the facilities for Submarine constructions has not being build in PAL facilities yet. Honestly Politics in Indonesia already clutered so much, that too many fested interest talking in Media to change public opinion which clouded the facts.

Ooo well like I said before..the price for Indonesian democracy :smash

Btw, from the article, the current 209/1300 overhaul seems quite thorough, that it close to being rebuild. It involved replacements of subs upper structures (and I believe it does not mean only the con tower), propulsion systems (which I believe the engine, electric motors and the battery arrangements), sonar, radar, and combat mgt system. That's why many photos of the 'old' interiors of Cakra and Nenggala already circulated in the local forums, since seems the current interiors already changes significantly.

So yes, by 2020, they are 40 years old, but with this lattest overhaul, it can also be says they are only a decade old.

 

[koxinga]

4. 3 ex Nahkoda Ragam procurement has been completed, and the 3 ex NR corvettes/OPV being scheduled to be delivered by 2014. The Navy also constructed 2 Replenishment Oilers from local Shipyard, also up to 12 LST locally for replacement of ex East German Frosch 1 class LST.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWzMEIp2HQo"]Corvette Docking - 30-07-13 - YouTube[/nomedia]

New Youtube video dated 30-July-2013, showing the transfer of Nakhoda Ragam being transferred to Milford Haven Dry Dock for works.

You might want to share with the Indonesian forums.

 

[Ananda]

Corvette Docking - 30-07-13 - YouTube

New Youtube video dated 30-July-2013, showing the transfer of Nakhoda Ragam being transferred to Milford Haven Dry Dock for works.

You might want to share with the Indonesian forums.

Thanks for the sharing. I my self did not participating with local Indonesian forum. However seems some members in here does. Wandering, if the deal to replace VL Sea Wolf already completed, and whether the instalation of new VL will be conducted in Milford Haven or somewhere else.

 

[Ananda]

As silent reader on local forum, found this picture of ex NR left milford haven dry dock. The picture being said taken on 10th of September. Seems the work in milford haven mostly concerning reconditioning of power pack and repainting. No new weapons installation.

 

[koxinga]

As silent reader on local forum, found this picture of ex NR left milford haven dry dock. The picture being said taken on 10th of September. Seems the work in milford haven mostly concerning reconditioning of power pack and repainting. No new weapons installation.

you can find a photo of her in the dry docks here.

[ame="http://www.flickr.com/photos/walsh01/9730995583/in/photostream/lightbox/"]Nakhoda Ragam In Dry Dock | Flickr - Photo Sharing![/ame]

Her 76mm was removed awhile back, doesn't seem to be reinstalled. I think any refit will be back in Bae Scotstoun

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Corvette Docking - 30-07-13 - YouTube

New Youtube video dated 30-July-2013, showing the transfer of Nakhoda Ragam being transferred to Milford Haven Dry Dock for works.

You might want to share with the Indonesian forums.

Thank you for sharing the link, koxinga, nice video with impressive backgroundmusic!
So it will be overhauled in the Milford Dry Dock?

As silent reader on local forum, found this picture of ex NR left milford haven dry dock. The picture being said taken on 10th of September. Seems the work in milford haven mostly concerning reconditioning of power pack and repainting. No new weapons installation.

Read more: http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/navy-maritime/indonesia-green-water-navy-3897-36/#ixzz2flPbcMCG

Or has it already left Milford? Btw, Thanks for sharing the pics Ananda!

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

3. All patrol ships will be gradually replaced by 3 indigenous design of FAC-M (call KCR). KCR 40 by Palindo, KCR 60 by PAL, and KCR 63 Trimaran by Lundin/North Sea Boats. Even though the First KCR 63 Trimaran destroyed in the fire accidents, the program will still continue.

4. 3 ex Nahkoda Ragam procurement has been completed, and the 3 ex NR corvettes/OPV being scheduled to be delivered by 2014. The Navy also constructed 2 Replenishment Oilers from local Shipyard, also up to 12 LST locally for replacement of ex East German Frosch 1 class LST.

5. Navy Air Arm will received 5 CN-235 MPA and 11 ASW Helicopters. Also the Marine will get additional 37 BMP-3F, 14 BTR80A and 35 LVTP-7;

3. Good development, we really need to get rid of those old patrolboats like the old second-hand Australian Attack Class built in the sixties and the East-German Kondor II Class built in the seventees.
Those Palindo KCR-40 boats are quite sexy...

4. Any info about the 12 LSTs?

5. I thought TNI-AL only ordered 3 CN235 MPAs...

 

[ASSAIL]

3. Good development, we really need to get rid of those old patrolboats like the old second-hand Australian Attack Class built in the sixties and the East-German Kondor II Class built in the seventees.
Those Palindo KCR-40 boats are quite sexy

Be nice to those "old second hand Attack class", I served in KRI Sigurot when she was HMAS ASSAIL
Cheers
Chris

 

[koxinga]

Badan Sarana Pertahanan Kementerian Pertahanan RI

Kepala Badan Sarana Pertahanan (Ka Baranahan) Kemhan Laksda TNI Ir. Rachmad Lubis, mengadakan Kunjungan ke Satgas Yekda Kapal PKR dan DSNS Vlissingen, Belanda, mendampingi Kasal Laksamana TNI DR. Marsetio beserta delegasi terdiri dari, Asops Kasal Laksda TNI Didit H, Atase Pertahanan RI di Belanda Kol Laut (T) Eddy Sulistiadi, Kabidmatra Laut Pusada Baranahan Kemhan Kolonel Laut Sriyanto, Pakorspri Kasal, (22-24 Oktober 2013)

Tujuan kunjungan untuk memeriksa perkembangan pembangunan kapal PKR-1 dan PKR-2 dan meninjau kegiatan Satgas Proyek Pengadaan Kapal PKR SIGMA. Delegasi diterima oleh Satgas Yekda Kapal PKR dan DSNS.

Based on this inspection report, has the first unit of the PKR been laid down at Vlissingen? If so, when?

In other news, inspections in UK on the three NR class to be transferred was conducted late last month.

Badan Sarana Pertahanan Kementerian Pertahanan RI

Kepala Badan Sarana Pertahanan (Ka Baranahan) Kemhan Laksda TNI Ir. Rachmad Lubis mendampingi Kasal Laksamana TNI DR. Marsetio, mengadakan Kunjungan kerja ke pembuatan 3 unit kapal MRLF di dermaga Barrow in Furness, Inggris pada tanggal 20 Oktober 2013. Ikut dalam delegasi tersebut Duta Besar RI di Inggris T.M. Hamzah Thayed, Asops Kasal Laksda TNI Didit H , , Atase Pertahanan RI di Inggris Kol Arh DR. Joni Mahroza , atase Pertahanan Inggris di Indonesia Col. Simon A. Winkworth, Kabidmatra Laut Pusada Baranahan Kemhan Kolonel Sriyanto, Pakorspri Kasal. Tujuan kunjungan untuk memeriksa kesiapan kapal dan meyakinkan kapal dapat diserahterimakan tepat waktu sesuai kontrak. Delegasi diterima oleh perwakilan Eagle Aero Technology dan Lurssen Logistics.