Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Ananda]

Vey interesting news. With the Yakhont the TNI-AL now has the longest range and fastest ASM in the region [not sure if the Vietnamese navy intends on fitting Klub to it's Kilos in the future], off course it all depends on having OTHT to exploit the Yakhont's long range. I very much doubt something like Link Y will be compatible so a Russian data link will most probably be needed.
Apart from the NB-105s, the 737s can also be fitted with data links for OTHT.

Another problem in taking long range shots I think will be in identifying targets, which may be challenging in areas such as major sea lanes which contain lots of commercial shipping.

Russian Navy Frigates and Destroyers used their Helicopters for Mid Range guidances. I don't know if Navy frigates based NBO-105 already included mid-range guidance capabilities as the Packages.

Interestingly seems all new vessels (Sigma Corvetes and Sigma BAsed Light Frigates that's building in PAL) sloted to use Exocet MM 40. Those ships actually/suposedly have better sensors than what Van Speijk and Parchim have. Navy seems still tight lips on whether by integrating Yakhont system on Van Speijk and Parchim also mean adding new sensors (especially long range sensors) to exploited Yakhont advantages.

One scenarios that I think off, New Sensors (or upgraded sensors) being put on Van Speijks/A. Yani Frigates and their NBO-105, and those Parchim tag along the Frigates and their Yakhont actually controled by the frigates. Whether it's true, will have to be seen.

 

[Red]

Vey interesting news. With the Yakhont the TNI-AL now has the longest range and fastest ASM in the region [not sure if the Vietnamese navy intends on fitting Klub to it's Kilos in the future], off course it all depends on having OTHT to exploit the Yakhont's long range. I very much doubt something like Link Y will be compatible so a Russian data link will most probably be needed.
Apart from the NB-105s, the 737s can also be fitted with data links for OTHT.

Another problem in taking long range shots I think will be in identifying targets, which may be challenging in areas such as major sea lanes which contain lots of commercial shipping.

I wonder what is Indonesia's motivation for purchasing such a long legged cruise missile when Exocet MM40 Block 3 would suffice? Especially so since she would not be able to maximise its use given the persistent need for air assets for which she may not be able to provide in times of conflict.

At any rate, Indonesia's purchase and deployment of the Yakhont, if true, seems to be carte blanche for the rest of SEA to purchase similar long legged missiles or reveal present inventory. In addition, it would spur the incorporation of better anti-missile technologies.

The deployment of such weaponry has always been sensitive in SEA's context with SEA countries prefering not to be seen as being overtly offensive.

 

[STURM]

I wonder what is Indonesia's motivation for purchasing such a long legged cruise missile when Exocet MM40 Block 3 would suffice?

Could be part of a move to reduce it's dependance on Western suppliers despite an improvement in ties with Uncle Sam. Or it could be intended to give the TNI-AL an edge over neighbouring navies.

At any rate, Indonesia's purchase and deployment of the Yakhont, if true, seems to be carte blanche for the rest of SEA to purchase similar long legged missiles or reveal present inventory. In addition, it would spur the incorporation of better anti-missile technologies.

It remains too be seen but I doubt if the introduction of the Yakhont will lead to other regional navies acquiring similiar long range missiles. The RMN for instance, apart from 4 corvettes armed with the Otomat 2, has standardised on the Exocet. The RSN armed it's Sea Wolf's with the Gabriel but has standardised on the Harpoon. Apart from the MM-38s on the Fatahillah class and the Harpoon, the TNI-AL also has the Chinese C-801. The only other supersonic ASMs operated in the region I can think of is the air launched KH-31P, operated by the RMAF. I'll be very surprised if Vietnam doesn't fit it's kilos with something like Klub.

The Yakhont, on account of it's range, speed and bigger warhead, does on paper, offer advantages over the Exocet and Harpoon, assuming of course integration issues with non-Russian made gear can be sorted out without too much hassle and cost. Even if the warhead fails to ignite, the Yakhont, on account of it's speed, will split any frigate sized vessel in two...

 

[ManilaBoy]

I'm surprised that Indonesia's Navy is still considered a 'Green Water Navy'... Lacking an aircraft carrier is probably the most likely reason, but they have those brand new MRV's that could be deployed on an extended period with their support frigates.

 

[SASWanabe]

I'm surprised that Indonesia's Navy is still considered a 'Green Water Navy'... Lacking an aircraft carrier is probably the most likely reason, but they have those brand new MRV's that could be deployed on an extended period with their support frigates.

i dont think the indonesians are Blue Water in many ways

they have

6x 1960s built Van Speijks, armed with Yakhont (not sure if they can use them very well tho)
4x Sigma's 1700 tons (Corvette)
3x Fatahillah 1450 tons (Corvette)
16x Parchim class corvette (more like IPV) 800 tons

the Sigmas are the only major combatants capable of true Blue Water Ops, unless the Indonesians installed desalination plants on the Van Speijks.

my oppinion, happy to be corrected

 

[STURM]

I'm surprised that Indonesia's Navy is still considered a 'Green Water Navy'... Lacking an aircraft carrier is probably the most likely reason, but they have those brand new MRV's that could be deployed on an extended period with their support frigates.

There is a thread in the naval section of DT on what constitutes a Blue Water Navy.
Having an aircraft carrier IMO doesn't necessary make a navy a Blue Water Navy.

i
the Sigmas are the only major combatants capable of true Blue Water Ops, unless the Indonesians installed desalination plants on the Van Speijks.

If i'm not mistaken the Leander's were originally designed to operate in the Atlantic and the North Sea, so technically the Ahmad Yani should have much better seakeeping than the Sigma's.

The TNI-AL also operates 737 MPA's with a Motorola SLAR. These MPA's have more range and endurance than any other ASEAN operated MPA.

 

[Ananda]

I'm surprised that Indonesia's Navy is still considered a 'Green Water Navy'... Lacking an aircraft carrier is probably the most likely reason, but they have those brand new MRV's that could be deployed on an extended period with their support frigates.

Recent thread on what's blue water navy seems already show that it's not just the matter of having aircraft carrier or having capability to venture on 'blue ocean' that makes a navy 'blue water' navy.

Yes, Indonesian Navy can send a flotilla of Maksasar LPD's accompany by a couple of Van Speijk Frigates and Rover class Fleet Tankers for a couple of weeks operations in the Indies. But that's about it. They will have difficulty to support more than couple of weeks operations on blue water on the matter of limited logistics (that Rover Tanker is the only logistics tankers/vessels that capable for 'blue water' operations).

Also the flotilla will not having sufficient 'defence bubble' especially for 'blue water' operations. One of the reasons a Navy still called 'green water' is because they have the abbility to venture out of 'coastal defence' but still dependent on land based support for logistics and additional defense umbrella.

the Sigmas are the only major combatants capable of true Blue Water Ops, unless the Indonesians installed desalination plants on the Van Speijks.

No the Sigma's is much newer but for Blue Water, the Van Speijks was build on Nato's North Atlantic operation standard. It's just the matter whether TNI-AL still maintain that capability on the Van Speijks. In short, if the reliability of those Van Speijks still maintainable (the Navy insist they still do, since they pour enough money recently for maintanances and upgraded to retain Van Speijks capability), then those frigates actually have better 'ocean going' capability then much newer Sigma's.

 

[STURM]

No the Sigma's is much newer but for Blue Water, the Van Speijks was build on Nato's North Atlantic operation standard.

Yes by virtue of it's size and assuming it's design, the Leander should have better seakeeping in rougher sea conditions than the Sigma. Then again just because a vessels is larger does not mean it has better seakeeping than a smaller vessel.

Ananda just curious why the main gun on the Sigma was placed where it is. From a photo of the Sigma on Wikipedia, it would appear that if the main gun was placed a bit more closer to the bow, there would be space aft for a VLS.

 

[ManilaBoy]

There is a thread in the naval section of DT on what constitutes a Blue Water Navy.
Having an aircraft carrier IMO doesn't necessary make a navy a Blue Water Navy.



I see, my apologies for the confusion then...I've read that thread yesterday and now have a better understanding of what constitute a 'Blue Water' Navy againts a 'Green Water' Navy. Thanks!

 

[Ananda]

Yes by virtue of it's size and assuming it's design, the Leander should have better seakeeping in rougher sea conditions than the Sigma. Then again just because a vessels is larger does not mean it has better seakeeping than a smaller vessel.

Ananda just curious why the main gun on the Sigma was placed where it is. From a photo of the Sigma on Wikipedia, it would appear that if the main gun was placed a bit more closer to the bow, there would be space aft for a VLS.

From what I gather from Damen sites also talking with some Damen people in Indodefences, they say that 90m versions of Sigma is not design with VLS. It can be put VLS but won't be optimal. The gun placement (A site) seems related with Ships stability.

Sigma 105 m design (now being build in PT. PAL) on the otherhand is being design with VLS. Comparing the model from both 90m and 105 m design, the gun placement (A site) proportionally with Ships Dimensions is about the same. The B site in 105 M versions (aft of VLS) will be used for ASW Mortars, however the B sites on present 90 m versions remain empty. More VLS can be added for 105 M versions if TNI AL decided to scrap ASW Mortars.

 

[Ananda]

Local Made Sub Skimmer

From Seputar Indonesia dailly with Google translate:

JAKARTA (SINDO) - Overview architectures similar to the speedboat at umumnya. However, with a complete technology and equipment, this locally made water combat vehicle has tremendous advantages.


Water combat vehicle known as the Sub-Skimmer is a water combat vehicles that can float on the surface of the water and have the ability to dive into the water. In Indonesia, which operates the vehicle of this type is Detachment Jala Mengakara (Denjaka) which is a Marine detachment of the elite corps of the Navy.

Operation is intended to serve the needs of special forces to infiltrate the opponent's area, carry out sabotage, and as a troop transport in limited quantities. So far Denjaka has using similar vehicles imported from Inggris. However, with certain considerations, the Office of Research and Development of the Navy (Dislitbangal) decided to develop and refine the combat vehicles.

Working closely with PT Prima Maritime and Denjaka, process design, development, and testing of sub skimmer started in early 2009. "Development with input from users, especially Denjaka started since 2009," said Director of PT Prima Maritime Toto Wirawan during an exhibition of defense equipment at the TNI headquarters Cilangkap some time ago.

Toto said, compared with the British Sub-made skimmer that had been used by the Navy Denjaka, products in this country has a number kelebihan.Kemampuan diving much more stable because it has a solid framework on both sides that also serves to protect the air cushion. "This protective frame that is not available Sub Skimmer made in England," he said.

Not only that, the framework of the Sub skimmer that can seat up to six personnel was also made of bullet prooof composite material. He stated that the budget to manufacture one sub skimmer was around Rp 2, 5 billion (USD 2.7 mio). One team of examiners Sub Skimmerdari Denjaka, Sergeant Imron, express, Sub Skimmer in surface can reach speeds of up to 25 knots and 5 knots submerged.

The photo's came from Defense Studies blogspot.

Curently more and more local projects that manufactured combat vehicles, whether by license or improvement of existing imported vehicles are continue to be encouraged to revitalise local defense Industries.

 

[Ananda]

Launching on First Batam made Missiles FPB.

From Batam Pos with Google translate:

BATAM (BP) - Industries shipyard in Batam carve a new history, after successfully completing work on Fast Ship Missile (KCR) in less than a year. Amazingly, these warships have the ability to load and missile firing, the entire design and work done in Batam, Indonesia.

"Some materials shipbuilding war is the result of domestic production," said First Admiral TNI Djati Suryo Prabowo, head of the Navy Procurement Office, on Friday (4 / 2). Warship is named KCR-40, with speed reached 30 knots.

"It's the only fast ship missile made in Batam," said Suryo proudly on the sidelines of the launch of the ship along the 44 meters was in PT Palindo Marine Industries, Tanjunguncang, yesterday.

Similar vessel in Indonesia today, said Suryo, the average foreign-made. But this Batam made quality is not inferior to foreign works.

Quick ship missile is made of steel-alumnium developed shipbuilding industry (shipyard) in Batam in Indonesia and internationally.

"With this success, we show the world that we have been able to build and develop their own weapon system in the country," said Suryo.

The boat, the overall manufacturing process in PT Palindo Marine Industries, Batam, will be equipped with modern weapons systems in the form of Sensor Weapon Control (Sewaco) modern, cannon caliber 30 MM 6 barrel as Close in Weapon System (CIWS) and guided missiles. The presence of the ship by pushing a reliable system that is able to sail with a speed of 30 knots, said Suryo, expected to carry out the tasks of the Navy and also provides a deterrence effect for national defense.

Meanwhile, according to marine commander Colonel Lanal Batam (P) Blue Isnurwanto, KCR is made of special steel in the upper reaches. High Steel Steel Tensils domestic product is also obtained from PT Krakatau Steel. Whille to the top, this ship uses an aluminum alloy that has high stability and speed when sailing.

Ship propulsion system with Fixed Propeller 5 leaves will also be equipped with 1 unit of 30 caliber cannon barrel 6 MM, 2 units caliber cannon platform 20 MM and missiles 2 sets of C-705 missiles.

In the near future, these warships will be tested. "After that, the ship was made in Batam to soon enter the ranks of Navy operations," said Suryo.
Meanwhile, the nation's best sons and daughters behind the KCR job, said the director of PT Palindo Marine Industries Herman, derived from the Institute of Technology Surabaya (ITS) that work in Batam. "Yes. Design and construction of this ship from the start made by the sons and daughters of the Indonesian nation of ITS in Batam. We are proud of their great work, "he said.

With TNI-AL envisaged to have 150 combat vessels, this kind of Missiles FPB (together with PT. PAL design in Surabaya) will be the actuall backbone of TNI-AL force. Eventhough the projects for Frigates, and SSK attract the main attentions.

The 30mm multi barreled canon uses Russian design, whille the missiles used Chinese ones.

 

[Ananda]

Got some pictures from Antara News Agency and Defense-studies blogspot on KRI Banjarmasin, the first Makasar class LPD build by PT. PAL.

The pictures include, KRI Banjarmasin on finishing stages, KRI Banjarmasin on recent amphibious exercises, and KRI Banjarmasin cutaways.

 

[Ananda]

From The Brunai Times http://www.bt.com.bn/news-national/2011/02/26/indonesia-get-brunei-patrol-ships

BRUNEI plans to grant Indonesia patrol vessels KDB Waspada and KDB Pejuang for military training as part of efforts to promote the expansion of defence ties.

Deputy Minister of Defence Dato Paduka Hj Mustappa Hj Sirat said yesterday that various programmes on Brunei-Indonesia defence ties would be carried out.

"KDB Waspada and KDB Pejuang are still in operation, possibly in April these will be delivered to Indonesia to be used as (military) training vessel for the Indonesian Navy (TNI AL)," Dato Paduka Hj Mustappa told The Brunei Times prior to joining a morning walk with His Majesty the Sultan and Yang Di-Pertuan of Brunei Darussalam and Indonesia President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono at the Tasek Lama Recreational Park.

This follow on on previous info that I've put on comment no 157 in this thread in Last May. Those two ships will be put into TNI-AL hand around April-May this year. JUst like predicted before. This ships with existing South Korean build Mandau will be used on various duties that more as stop gap until the plan 40 m Missiles FPB that being build by PAL and Palindo in BAtam will be ready in quantity.

Using them as trainingboats will be logical to prepared man powers for those Light Missiles FPB from local yards.

 

[Ananda]

Indigenous Missiles FPB 40 m.

From Jawa Pos On line with Google Translate:

BATAM - Missiles FPB indigenous product of Batam Indonesia,got tremendous acclaim from the Ministry of Defense (SecDef) Yusgiantoro. Minister promised to continue to build warships such as this 100 percent manufacture KRI Clurit done in PT Palindo Marine Industries, Tanjunguncang, Batam

According to Minister of Defense, the successful production of 30 knots speed warships equipped with modern weapons systems such as Sensor Weapon Control (Sewaco), MM 6 30 caliber cannon barrel as a Close In Weapon System (CIWS), and the guided missiles is proof that the national defense system can building as the KCR.

Quoted Batam Pos (JPNN Group), Sunday (27 / 2), Purnomo said the ship with a length of 44 meters made of aluminum that is suitable for patrol and assault activities in waters off western Indonesia region (armabar). The reason is the , the sea in western Indonesia, are not too deep and is suitable for medium-sized warships currently being produced in the country.

"Seas in the western region is suitable for vessels such as KRI. As long as they can to patrol and it could be to conduct battle operation," said Purnomo Yusgiantoro on the sidelines of his visit with Commander Rear Admiral Armabar Bowo Today in PT Palindo Marine Industries, Tanjunguncang.

He said the government will continue to build a warship KRI size made of Batam are independently without having to buy it from another country. Defense was deeply impressed with the work of people who have shown dedication, loyalty and nationalism to design and build ships of war that can carry and fire missiles as far as 120 kilometers.

Armabar Commander Rear Admiral Bowo Day added, which will be equipped warships 1 unit 30 caliber cannon barrel 6 MM, 2 units caliber cannon platform 20 MM and missiles 2 sets of C-705 missiles will be carried out acceptance testing of sea (sea acceptance test) and acceptance test port (harbor acceptance test) on 25 March.

It was reported previously Batam Pos, warships with speeds up to 30 knots was built in Batam about a year ago and successfully launched on the manufacturers, namely PT Palindo Marine Industries, Tanjunguncang, beginning last February.

FPB missile made of special steel Steel High Tensils on the upper reaches (stomach). As for the top, this ship uses an aluminum alloy that has high stability and speed when sailing.

This FPB (same class with existing South Korean made Mandau class and the plan two Missiles FPB grant from Brunai), will be the back bone of Indonesian 'green water' fleet despites continous manufacturing and acquisitions of Corvetes, Light Frigates and SSK. From previous post no 232, I already mentioned the launching, now it seems the planned testing and integrations will be fasten ahead. This show the much willingness of TNI-AL to get the production of this kind of FPB more, to gain the quantity they need for sufficient Patrol Boats with relative modern capabilities.

Possible main gun of this FPB could be Russian 30mm CIWS (AK-630) or can be Chinese Type 730, with possible Chinese C-705 2-4 launchers in the aft deck.

 

[Ananda]

TNI-AL Will Try Out Three New Missiles

From Pos Kota with Google Tranlate:

JAKARTA (Pos Kota) - At least three types of new weapons the Navy in the near future trials will be carried out the shooting. All three weapons were the Bullet Control (Missiles) Yakhont, MM 40 Exocet missiles and missile Mistral Air Attack repellent.

As stated by Chief of Naval Staff (Kasal) Admiral TNI Soeparno, Tuesday (01 / 3), while giving front of some 300 officials of the Navy, Pangkotama, and Intermediate-level officer Colonel Kotama area of Jakarta, at the Multipurpose Building Mabesal, Cilangkap, East Jakarta .

According Kasal, plans missile test firing will be conducted from Yakhont KRI Oswald Siahaan-354, a Navy warship Vanspeik type, while the MM 40 Exocet missiles and Mistral air missile counterforce attack would have been fired from the Navy's most sophisticated ships currently Sigma type class KRI Diponegoro-365. "All three weapons have been completed at this time installed on the ship," said Kasal.

For Mistral I think it's more for trial on Tetral system. This try out more to show the readiness of weapons system in Sigma (when they're send from Netherlands, practically without missiles system ready), and to show the modifications on Van Speijk is ready.

This also show that the Navy (TNI-AL) readiness for replacing Harpoon with Yakhont, and MM 38 roles also being replaced by MM 40 and Chinese C-802 (and possible also C-705) on Corvetes and FPB.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

All three weapons were the Bullet Control (Missiles) Yakhont, MM 40 Exocet missiles and missile Mistral Air Attack repellent.

Peluru kendali = bullet control...hehe...google translate is sometimes funny...
BTW, thanks for the news!

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

BATAM (BP) - Industries shipyard in Batam carve a new history, after successfully completing work on Fast Ship Missile (KCR) in less than a year. Amazingly, these warships have the ability to load and missile firing, the entire design and work done in Batam, Indonesia.

So the KCR is finished? When is the hand-over, until now no pictures yet of the real ship.

"KDB Waspada and KDB Pejuang are still in operation, possibly in April these will be delivered to Indonesia to be used as (military) training vessel for the Indonesian Navy (TNI AL),"

Those 37m long boats are made in '78 and '79, but i think still useable.

 

[Ananda]

So the KCR is finished? When is the hand-over, until now no pictures yet of the real ship.
Those 37m long boats are made in '78 and '79, but i think still useable.

Well according to the news, the handover will be conducted after the lead ship (KRI Clurit) finish the trial this month (March). Yes no photo's on the ship, I've only found a couple animation picture (I gues that from previous Indo-defence) on local blogs. Also there's a Picture of Minister of Defense touring the Bridgre of this new PKR/FPB.

Yes the Brunai ships comming from lates 70's, but still more capable than the fleet of ex Aussies Patrol boat and also old PAL patrol boats that those PKR/FPB going to replace. Together with Mandau's class those ex Brunai FPB will be a good stop-gap and training vessels for new sailors intended to local Missiles FPB's.

Still those Missiles FPB/KCR with using Chinese C-705, will have smaller punch than PAL's Lurseen license made FPB 57 with C-802. But I do believe if goes well, this (whether Palindo version or PAL's one) will be the back bone of TNI AL considering it's much cheaper, relative new weaponnery and system, and can be produce in quantity on relative short time.

 

[Ananda]

Last Makasar class LPD handed over

From Antara news agency with Google translate:

Surabaya - PT Pal Indonesia submitted a unit of warhip Republik Indonesia (KRI) Banda Aceh to the Ministry of Defence to support the operations of the Navy.

Delivery of the vessel hull number 593 was carried out symbolically from the President Director of PT Pal Indonesia Harsusanto to Defence Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro in Division General Engine Pal, Surabaya, on Monday, in the presence of State Enterprises Minister Mustafa Abubakar, the TNI Commander Rear Admiral Agus Suhartono, KSAL Admiral TNI Soeparno, and ranks of members of Commission I of the DPR.

Warship type "landing platform dock" with a length of 125 meters was designed specifically to function as a military vessel capable of transporting troops, combat vehicles, tactical vehicles, and helicopters.

Before the handover, the ship has undergone a series of tests set sail on March 2 to 8 2011 to test the performance of ships and marine inspection test on March 14, 2011.

This is the last of current series of 125 m Makasar class LPD. The next amphibious vessel project for PAL is 6-7 117 m LST. It's bassically a smaller LPD but with beaching capability of LST. This will replace old WW 2 ex USN LST.