Indian Navy keen to buy newer generation aircraft
- Thread starter Crusader2000
- Start date
yes some one did in this article The Hindu : Business News : Indian Navy eyes newer generation aircraftDid I just read that right? Someone is suggesting a Typhoon with thrust vectoring engines would be VTOL capable?
:crazy
i am supremely confused
Well India needs something that the chineise dont have so this will deffently be a western aircraft. To me the F-35C will be the best out there that you can find,but theres a problem the F-35 STOVL, the VL part (vertical landing) as i do not think the carriers cannot cope with the VL jet heat on the Indian Navys carriers and i think juan carlos (spain) and Queen Eleizbeth (U.K) con cope with the heat. I am not sure if EADS will produce an carrier version of the Eurofighter but it might be an good air supiroty fighter in the navys inventory.
Cheers
Cheers
the road runner
Active Member
Im sory to say ,there seems to be more regurgitation of reports that actual Facts about a desired topic.Journalism is dead in my opinion.Hearsay becomes Fact in this day and age.
I Just hope the Indians make the right decission on this important aquisition.
@vengance
One thing,the Juan Carlos is a LHD..Landing helicopter dock.
Príncipe de Asturias is Spains Aircraft carrier
The Juan Carlos is used as an Aircraft Carrier,when Príncipe de Asturias is in refit.
I would not consider the Juan Carlos an Aircraft carrier.It can launch Aircraft,but should not be considered a True Aircraft Carrier.
Regards
The F-35B uses a lift fan not directed exhaust. This means there is less of a problem with exhuast heat on the deck. Thats still far from saying its able to be used with other carriers. The F-35 is a very heavy aircraft for one. Lifts and deck may struggle with it.
Eurofighter is never going to be navalised.
Rafale or Superhornet or the russian stuff. I would have though the Rafale would have been a good choice, able to operate from smaller carriers, lighter, still modern, cheaper.. etc.
The difference between a JC1 and a carrier is like a makeshift road way and an airbase. Planes can land and take off on a roadway, and you can even put a tanker truck and refuel them, but an airbase offers a whole lot more.
it uses both (lift fan in front and exhaust at the rear) and deck heating most definitely is an issue with it
there are ways to mitigate it, but it will cause some issues
A VTOL spends little time (matter of seconds) in hover over the flight deck, mainly in landing, so heat is not a big factor (especially with ski jump take off). Blast (engine and lift fan) and aircraft weight are two other VTOL factors which IMHO are more critical than heat. The F-35B is over twice the weight of a Sea Harrier, that's significant.
The lift fan is one of four points, two main ones for lift, & two smaller ones for balance. The second main source of lift is the engine nozzle . . . . .
India has announced a tender for a new carrier-based aircraft in the next 5-6 years. This leaves the JSF out of the process, again. Lenta.ru: Îðóæèå: ÂÌÑ Èíäèè îáúÿâèëè òåíäåð íà ïîêóïêó ïàëóáíûõ èñòðåáèòåëåé
Granted they have already opted for the additional MiGs, this really makes little sense. Then again, if they connect this to the MMRCA tender, it could work.
Granted they have already opted for the additional MiGs, this really makes little sense. Then again, if they connect this to the MMRCA tender, it could work.
The French are using US licensed catapult tech, so whatever the US can launch will be applicable as its the catapult and forward length that make it so.. (apols to Capt Picard)
How much stock do you put in Boeing's comments that a Super Hornet could take off from the current ski jump arrangement with "a significant payload"?
I'm quite fond of the Super but considering Russia's woes operating SU-33s with the same setup, I'm curious if the Super would get up with optimal fuel/weapon payload. I understand the SU is heavier still, but the Super is heavier than the 29K by a substantial margin...
Well the shornet's entire aerodynamics were 'optimized' (compromised) for low speed flight and lift, plus the raw thrust is pretty decent, especially if they get the EPE engine they keep flogging
and i'm sure boeing wouldn't lie and is competent enough to know what they're doing with their models
so the question comes down to: what is 'significant'? and is that with a full fuel load?
as i say this i want you all to know i like Boeing but i know corporations here in the us i just like any in the world Boeing well say hey yeah it well work of a ski jump 10 years latter and 20 billion down the tube they may just have that super Hornet!
Oh yeah, wasn't meaning to imply Boeing were incompetent at all - I'm just curious as to what they consider a significant payload (as you said), and what, if any, upper limits would be imposed on carrier operations in such a scenario.
I haven't seen any comments from them, I've been looking for information and it's hard to get a straight answer on relative weights. From what I've seen the Rhino outweighs the Rafale M by over 3 tons. I don't know enough about aerodynamics to comment on the relative lift generated by either design.
But then, the Mig-29K seems to be in the same ballpark as the Rafale weight- and thrust-wise (but as I said I've had trouble finding consistent information so please correct me if I'm wrong). This is only conjecture but hell, if an SU-33 can get up from the ski jump I'd be optimistic about the Rafale's chances
s.raptorski
New Member
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1091229/jsp/nation/story_11919544.jsp
New Delhi, Dec. 28: The Indian Navy has invited five global makers of combat planes, including the US-led F-35C Joint Strike Fighter, to participate in a competition for deck-based aircraft that it wants to buy.
Deck-based aircraft for navies have special requirements — like foldable wings because of limited space in carriers and ability for short/vertical take-off and landing.
India’s biggest military hardware supplier, Russia, which was asked for information on the Sukhoi-33, has opted out of the race saying it is phasing out the plane, a navy source told The Telegraph.
But Russia is negotiating with China to sell 50 Sukhoi-33 aircraft for the Chinese PLA Navy’s aircraft-carrier programme.
The first four of 12 Russian-made MiG 29K fighter aircraft contracted for the Indian Navy, however, reached India earlier this month. The aircraft are yet to be assembled because they were delivered in a knocked-down condition.
A MiG 29K deck-based aircraft at an airshow
The MiG 29K are to be based on the INS Vikramaditya, as the Indian Navy has rechristened the Gorshkov carrier for which a re-negotiated price is yet to be contracted.
Essentially, the Indian Navy is now beginning to get the aircraft without the carrier to base them in. So it has fashioned an airstrip that is mimicking the Gorshkov’s flying deck in the INS Hansa, the naval base in Goa, to induct the MiG 29K.
Among the five aircraft for which the Indian Navy has sent Requests for Information (RFI) are the F-18 Superhornet (made by Boeing for the US Navy), Eurofighter Typhoon (EADS supported by a European consortium) and France’s Dassault Aviation for the Rafale.
The Indian Navy had originally not sent an RFI to Sweden’s SAAB but the company expressed interest and was sent a request for the naval variant of the Gripen JAS 39.
The Superhornet, Eurofighter, Rafale and the Gripen are among six aircraft (the other two being the F-16 Super Viper and the MiG 35) contending for the biggest fighter aircraft competition going in the world today — the Indian Air Force’s order for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft that could be worth more than $12 billion.
The Indian Navy’s overt interest in the F-35C Lightning II is a bit of a surprise. The F-35C is the US Navy variant of the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) programme being implemented by Lockheed Martin and is known in the aviation industry as the only fifth-generation aircraft.
The naval variant was rolled out of Lockheed’s plant in Fort Worth, Texas, only in July this year. It is yet to be flight-tested.
Apart from the US, nine other countries are participating in developing the JSF — the UK, Australia, Canada, Denmark, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore and Turkey. India has separate agreements with Russia to co-develop a fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) but that is nowhere near the stage of development that the JSF has reached.
The navy officer said the plan was to raise a squadron (between 16 and 20 aircraft) for the aircraft carrier that India is building on its own in Kochi (called IAC for Indigenous Aircraft Carrier). The IAC will be at least eight years in the making (2018).
The deck-based aircraft competition is being thrown open to global makers as a contingency measure because India’s own Tejas Light Combat Aircraft is inordinately delayed.
The Indian Navy’s only aircraft carrier, the INS Viraat, that sails with British vintage Sea Harrier aircraft onboard was refitted after being in the dry dock for nearly two years till November.
Its fleet of aircraft is also depleting fast with not enough back-ups. The navy now has less than a squadron-strength of the aircrafts/
whats your take on this ????
New Delhi, Dec. 28: The Indian Navy has invited five global makers of combat planes, including the US-led F-35C Joint Strike Fighter, to participate in a competition for deck-based aircraft that it wants to buy.
Deck-based aircraft for navies have special requirements — like foldable wings because of limited space in carriers and ability for short/vertical take-off and landing.
India’s biggest military hardware supplier, Russia, which was asked for information on the Sukhoi-33, has opted out of the race saying it is phasing out the plane, a navy source told The Telegraph.
But Russia is negotiating with China to sell 50 Sukhoi-33 aircraft for the Chinese PLA Navy’s aircraft-carrier programme.
The first four of 12 Russian-made MiG 29K fighter aircraft contracted for the Indian Navy, however, reached India earlier this month. The aircraft are yet to be assembled because they were delivered in a knocked-down condition.
A MiG 29K deck-based aircraft at an airshow
The MiG 29K are to be based on the INS Vikramaditya, as the Indian Navy has rechristened the Gorshkov carrier for which a re-negotiated price is yet to be contracted.
Essentially, the Indian Navy is now beginning to get the aircraft without the carrier to base them in. So it has fashioned an airstrip that is mimicking the Gorshkov’s flying deck in the INS Hansa, the naval base in Goa, to induct the MiG 29K.
Among the five aircraft for which the Indian Navy has sent Requests for Information (RFI) are the F-18 Superhornet (made by Boeing for the US Navy), Eurofighter Typhoon (EADS supported by a European consortium) and France’s Dassault Aviation for the Rafale.
The Indian Navy had originally not sent an RFI to Sweden’s SAAB but the company expressed interest and was sent a request for the naval variant of the Gripen JAS 39.
The Superhornet, Eurofighter, Rafale and the Gripen are among six aircraft (the other two being the F-16 Super Viper and the MiG 35) contending for the biggest fighter aircraft competition going in the world today — the Indian Air Force’s order for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft that could be worth more than $12 billion.
The Indian Navy’s overt interest in the F-35C Lightning II is a bit of a surprise. The F-35C is the US Navy variant of the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) programme being implemented by Lockheed Martin and is known in the aviation industry as the only fifth-generation aircraft.
The naval variant was rolled out of Lockheed’s plant in Fort Worth, Texas, only in July this year. It is yet to be flight-tested.
Apart from the US, nine other countries are participating in developing the JSF — the UK, Australia, Canada, Denmark, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore and Turkey. India has separate agreements with Russia to co-develop a fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) but that is nowhere near the stage of development that the JSF has reached.
The navy officer said the plan was to raise a squadron (between 16 and 20 aircraft) for the aircraft carrier that India is building on its own in Kochi (called IAC for Indigenous Aircraft Carrier). The IAC will be at least eight years in the making (2018).
The deck-based aircraft competition is being thrown open to global makers as a contingency measure because India’s own Tejas Light Combat Aircraft is inordinately delayed.
The Indian Navy’s only aircraft carrier, the INS Viraat, that sails with British vintage Sea Harrier aircraft onboard was refitted after being in the dry dock for nearly two years till November.
Its fleet of aircraft is also depleting fast with not enough back-ups. The navy now has less than a squadron-strength of the aircrafts/
whats your take on this ????
well, once again, sloppy journalism means that the above article is highly questionable.
The RFP should define what the conditions and concept of operations are.
The aircraft mentioned are all different. ie some are navalised, some are land based only. eg some are CATOBAR, some are STOBAR, some are STOVL, one is incapable of being launched from a carrier and would need significant rework to meet operating conditions etc.,..
it is unfortunately, a rubbish example of how bad journalism can lack basic investigative appreciation of what should have been asked in the first instance
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It could just be the new defence procurement policy, to involve more than one supplier into the tender.
The original deal for MiG-29Ks was old and a state to state deal, not a tender and not a part of the Air Defence Ship/Indigenous Aircraft Carrier Project.
When the design/development of the ADC/IAC project started the relations b/w India and USA were less than friendly and the option of catapult was not available, resulting in STOBAR as the only available option.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/History/Millenium/11-Questforcarrier.html
The quoted requirement of this tender is for the third Aircraft carrier (2018-2022).
http://www.hindu.com/2009/12/27/stories/2009122756541600.htm
That's a long long time away.
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