I haven't seen any numbers for a while.
Sometime ago (12 months) RANSAC indicated that less than 20% of the Federations "active" penanted assets were sea worthy.
Indian Navy (IN) News and Discussion
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Sometime ago (12 months) RANSAC indicated that less than 20% of the Federations "active" penanted assets were sea worthy.
I certainly wouldn't be leasing any russian subs after the way that you were treated on the first one.
IIRC it sank at moorings twice before it was delisted and then re-activated and cleaned up for lease.
Please read up on which Sub IN is planning to lease.
P-15A details
GF, Galharn, Conte and others,
Recently MDL released a tender for thrid ship ofP-15 A series. The armament fit was as follows
1. Anti-ship/surface missile - Brahmos - 2 units (how many cells/unit was not specified but may be 8)
2. SAM- Barak NG - 4 units (again cells/unit not mentioned)
3. Radar - MF-STAR
4. CIWS - AK 630 (4 )
5 Main Gun A-190
GF, Galharn, Conte and others,
Recently MDL released a tender for thrid ship ofP-15 A series. The armament fit was as follows
1. Anti-ship/surface missile - Brahmos - 2 units (how many cells/unit was not specified but may be 8)
2. SAM- Barak NG - 4 units (again cells/unit not mentioned)
3. Radar - MF-STAR
4. CIWS - AK 630 (4 )
5 Main Gun A-190
Yups that is why the
was there.
Any information on when the Barak NG project is expected to be completed?
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The Charlie-I Class? i was in primary school back then, no clues :unknown
The third ship of P-15A is due for delivery in April 2012. So Barak NG should be up and running before that.
if each unit of Barak-NG are 8 cell like Barak, then that really is not enough for what is going to be the AAW ship of IN. Sorry, but 4 AK-640 and A-190 is not going to be that much help either.
Not enough for what? How does one arrive at the required figure?
Help in what?
That will be what 32 missiles, decent load, though a extra dozen will always help, infact the more the better ah.
I guess they might go for 48, will just have to wait.
P 15 A series, exactly how many are planned? i could only find plans for 3, so is this the last in the series(i.e the one with the Barak NG)?
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if you look at the AAW ships that are being built now, 48 seem to be the minimum that each is going for. I'd much rather sacrifice brahmos for more SAM units.
4 AK-630 and A-190 simply doesn't provide enough close in defense.
Ya, will have to wait to see what the configuration is. 48 has been around for some time.
I guess instead of brochure based decisions the IN might use their heads to come up with that figure, they have to use the ship after all, no use going for a configuration because every one else is going for it.
As for the Brahmos, i am just happy to see it with out some klubs
I guess instead of brochure based decisions the IN might use their heads to come up with that figure, they have to use the ship after all, no use going for a configuration because every one else is going for it.
As for the Brahmos, i am just happy to see it with out some klubs
no clues :unknown , taking about the numbers or the guns?
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Sorry for the delayed reply,
P-15A is not AAW ship, but multi role. I suspect P-17A series may be AAW, not sure though. It does have HUMSA hull mounted Sonar and Nagin towed sonar.
When the first Ship of P-15A was launched (INS Kolkata), a defence source put number of Barak NG to 48. That makes it 12 missiles/unit. But let's wait instead of speculation.
I would like to know more about Ak-630's as CIWS. You don't look too impressed by them, could you amplify your thoughts?
it's generally believed in PLAN that 2 Kashtan or 2 Type 730 CIWS provides much better protection than 4 AK-630s. Of course, it also has something to do with the naval gun combat system on P-15A, which I obviously don't know, since I have no clue what kind of sensors IN use for air search and such.
Indian court orders probe into French submarine deal
New Delhi (AFP) Dec 20, 2007
An Indian court on Thursday ordered police to complete a probe into charges that a bribe was paid in a multi-billion dollar deal to buy Scorpene submarines from a French defence firm.
The Delhi High Court told the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) to complete its inquiry within three months and report back to a two-judge bench.
The judges also told the CBI to press criminal charges against "accused persons" if it could establish an offence had been committed in the 2.4 billion euro (three billion dollar) deal.
"In case CBI decides to close the case after the inquiry then it will have to satisfy the court that there was no evidence of kickbacks involved in the deal," judges T. S. Thakur and Veena Birbal said.
The order came a month after an Indian pressure group -- the Centre for Public Interest Litigation -- alleged New Delhi was shielding Indian middlemen who took commissions from French defence giant Thales, which owns Armaris, to clinch the deal.
Thales and the French government have denied the allegations.
Prashant Bhushan, who heads the pressure group, told the court that he doubted the intentions of the CBI, which had earlier this year abandoned an investigation into the bribery allegations.
"It has not done anything during the last 21 months and we fear it would submit a report without conducting a proper inquiry... We demand a full-fledged investigation," Bhushan said.
India in October last year signed contracts worth 2.4 billion euros with Armaris and European defence firm MBDA to buy six of the Franco-Spanish submarines.
The deal is a technology transfer agreement.
The Scorpenes will be assembled in India, but French naval group Direction des Compagnies Navales (DCN) will produce various key parts that require equipment unavailable at Indian shipyards.
India's main opposition Bharatiya Janata Party party has also alleged that four percent of the contract amount, estimated to be 100 million dollars, was paid to the brokers, one of whom is said to be close to the ruling Congress party.
Earlier this month, India said it was scrapping a 600-million-dollar deal to buy 197 military helicopters from the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS) after allegations of corruption in the bidding process.
India banned middlemen in military deals following charges of bribery in a multi-billion-dollar artillery deal in the 1980s with Swedish firm Bofors.
That scandal led to the downfall of the government of Congress prime minister Rajiv Gandhi in 1989.
Admin: additional comment deleted as it breached forum rules. please read the Forum Rules before making any further posts that include such commentary.
New Delhi (AFP) Dec 20, 2007
An Indian court on Thursday ordered police to complete a probe into charges that a bribe was paid in a multi-billion dollar deal to buy Scorpene submarines from a French defence firm.
The Delhi High Court told the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) to complete its inquiry within three months and report back to a two-judge bench.
The judges also told the CBI to press criminal charges against "accused persons" if it could establish an offence had been committed in the 2.4 billion euro (three billion dollar) deal.
"In case CBI decides to close the case after the inquiry then it will have to satisfy the court that there was no evidence of kickbacks involved in the deal," judges T. S. Thakur and Veena Birbal said.
The order came a month after an Indian pressure group -- the Centre for Public Interest Litigation -- alleged New Delhi was shielding Indian middlemen who took commissions from French defence giant Thales, which owns Armaris, to clinch the deal.
Thales and the French government have denied the allegations.
Prashant Bhushan, who heads the pressure group, told the court that he doubted the intentions of the CBI, which had earlier this year abandoned an investigation into the bribery allegations.
"It has not done anything during the last 21 months and we fear it would submit a report without conducting a proper inquiry... We demand a full-fledged investigation," Bhushan said.
India in October last year signed contracts worth 2.4 billion euros with Armaris and European defence firm MBDA to buy six of the Franco-Spanish submarines.
The deal is a technology transfer agreement.
The Scorpenes will be assembled in India, but French naval group Direction des Compagnies Navales (DCN) will produce various key parts that require equipment unavailable at Indian shipyards.
India's main opposition Bharatiya Janata Party party has also alleged that four percent of the contract amount, estimated to be 100 million dollars, was paid to the brokers, one of whom is said to be close to the ruling Congress party.
Earlier this month, India said it was scrapping a 600-million-dollar deal to buy 197 military helicopters from the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS) after allegations of corruption in the bidding process.
India banned middlemen in military deals following charges of bribery in a multi-billion-dollar artillery deal in the 1980s with Swedish firm Bofors.
That scandal led to the downfall of the government of Congress prime minister Rajiv Gandhi in 1989.
Admin: additional comment deleted as it breached forum rules. please read the Forum Rules before making any further posts that include such commentary.
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contedicavour
New Member
Ouch if the allegations on either the helicopter deal or the Scorpene deal prove to be true that's quite a blow to the French defence industry. Probably most such deals include some very shady asides, but getting caught... ...
With the recent problems encountered in Morocco (with the F16 block 50s beating the Rafale) India is a key market where Dassault hopes to place Rafales (India does have 40 Mirage 2000s after all).
cheers
...With the recent problems encountered in Morocco (with the F16 block 50s beating the Rafale) India is a key market where Dassault hopes to place Rafales (India does have 40 Mirage 2000s after all).
cheers
contedicavour
New Member
Oh and by the way, by selling Scorpene to India DCN probably lost any chance of selling more SSKs to Pakistan (which, surprise surprise, is now turning to U214). So if the deal with India proves to have involved corruption this is a really BIG blow...
cheers
cheers
Dunno if scrapping the sub being built and the ones to follow will be economical, must have taken some money and effort to get the line operational.
legal procedure will take a long-long time, at this stage of the contract it will be carried through, and if the age old bofors scam is anything to go by, the contract will be carried out long before the verdict of the Delhi High Court comes.
People go with the lesser of two evils.
A famous example is the Barak weapon system deal, the deal is being investigated by the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI).
This will really hurt the French when the contract for second line of submarines comes into being, and the associated defense firms might get into trouble. Similar stuff keeps on coming up in other Indian industrial sectors (payoffs, bribes etc.) especially the ones involving government organizations (and there are a lot of them).
It is very important that such payoffs/bribes are controlled through harsh steps, these guys walk away with a lot of money that can be utilized well, i hope that if the Court finds that the defense firms involved are found guilty, the whole deal is scrapped and all the money deposited back with the government, along with a 50 year ban on defense deals with the firms involved.
I think the current ministry of defense is taking active steps to get some transparency into the picture, hope that works out with the deal for 126 combat fighter aircrafts.
What is the global scene? i guess some payoffs/bribes must take place in defense deals, any famous ones?
Hope the people here have a nice new year party, and a wonderful new year, man i wish this was on the weekend, well cant change the time i guess.
legal procedure will take a long-long time, at this stage of the contract it will be carried through, and if the age old bofors scam is anything to go by, the contract will be carried out long before the verdict of the Delhi High Court comes.
People go with the lesser of two evils.
A famous example is the Barak weapon system deal, the deal is being investigated by the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI).
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2321/stories/20061103001804100.htm
This will really hurt the French when the contract for second line of submarines comes into being, and the associated defense firms might get into trouble. Similar stuff keeps on coming up in other Indian industrial sectors (payoffs, bribes etc.) especially the ones involving government organizations (and there are a lot of them).
It is very important that such payoffs/bribes are controlled through harsh steps, these guys walk away with a lot of money that can be utilized well, i hope that if the Court finds that the defense firms involved are found guilty, the whole deal is scrapped and all the money deposited back with the government, along with a 50 year ban on defense deals with the firms involved.
I think the current ministry of defense is taking active steps to get some transparency into the picture, hope that works out with the deal for 126 combat fighter aircrafts.
What is the global scene? i guess some payoffs/bribes must take place in defense deals, any famous ones?
Hope the people here have a nice new year party, and a wonderful new year, man i wish this was on the weekend, well cant change the time i guess.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...akthrough_on_Groshkov/articleshow/2686282.cms
This is interesting, 1.5 billion USD extra, might as well stick to the old name and keep it in the russian navy the Mig-29K is already there to fly around in russian colours. Not much use having them on the ground.
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