Independence is one of the option. As a Kashmiri, I know alot of people would vote indepedence. However I supported the peace formula devised by fmr Pres Musharraf and PM of India because both sides have nukes and importantly why be hostage to history. People on both sides are destablising each nation. Look at the history of both nations initiating insurgencies to weaken their neighbours.
Indian Navy Discussions and Updates
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dragonfire
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News Update
Indian navy will have 160 warships by 2022: Admiral Mehta
Indian Navy aims to be a 160-warship and 300-aircraft strong naval force by 2022, the Chief of Naval staff Admiral Sureesh Mehta said today.
"We have long term integrated perspective plan which has all the ships that we need to construct right upto 2022. By that time we should be a navy with powerful 160 warships and 300 aircraft,"he said on the sidelines of India&aposs first ever 105-meter class Naval offshore patrol vessel INS Saryu at the port town of Vasco.
http://www.indopia.in/India-usa-uk-news/latest-news/536389/National/1/20/1
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Doesnt look much more than the current projection of 150 vessels, but what is surprising is the 300 no aircraft inventory projection, wonder how many are naval fighters, hopefuly the numbers not inclusive of the coast guard inventory (am sure it isnt)
Indian navy will have 160 warships by 2022: Admiral Mehta
Indian Navy aims to be a 160-warship and 300-aircraft strong naval force by 2022, the Chief of Naval staff Admiral Sureesh Mehta said today.
"We have long term integrated perspective plan which has all the ships that we need to construct right upto 2022. By that time we should be a navy with powerful 160 warships and 300 aircraft,"he said on the sidelines of India&aposs first ever 105-meter class Naval offshore patrol vessel INS Saryu at the port town of Vasco.
http://www.indopia.in/India-usa-uk-news/latest-news/536389/National/1/20/1
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Doesnt look much more than the current projection of 150 vessels, but what is surprising is the 300 no aircraft inventory projection, wonder how many are naval fighters, hopefuly the numbers not inclusive of the coast guard inventory (am sure it isnt)
What Indian Naval Doctrine is driving the navy to meet these numbers?
IMHO the 160 will include not only include larger capital ships, but numerous smaller patrol and auxiliary craft as well as submarines.
The 300 aircraft number is a bit high and you are probably correct on the coast guard. Most of these aircraft anyway are probably rotary wing.
dragonfire
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Well the stated doctrine of the Indian Navy is to become a Blue Water Navy, but you are right that the numbers projected are that of all assets albeit dicounting the coast guard as it is a different wing and operates independently of the navy.
What you say is right that the numbers will include all kinds of vessels, Infact the announcement was made when a new Patrol boat (105 mtrs) was launched.
A lot of the aerial assets are non fighter assets like helis, surveliance crafts, transports etc, I mean there are only about a dozen VTOL capable harriers currently (apart from the first batch of Mig-29ks - which are being trained on in Russia probably)
hey has anyone else heard about this? In the first paragraph the article talks about india acquiring 32 naval airships, but in the quote it states 32 warships... i havent found any other source confirming that it is airships, but i did find a source that talks about india building airships with US help. can anyone shed some light on this? the link for the second source is at the bottom.
http://nosint.blogspot.com/2009/05/india-to-build-32-airships-six.html
India to build 32 airships, six submarines in 3 years: Navy chief
India is all set to build on its own at least 32 naval airships and six submarines in three years' time as part of its Navy's modernization program, Indian Navy chief Admiral Suresh Mehta said Tuesday.
"The Indian Navy would build 32 warships and six submarines using indigenous technology by the year 2012," Mehta told the media in the eastern Indian city of Kolkata on the sidelines of commissioning of the Navy's sixth Landing Ship Tank, Airavat, into the Eastern Naval Command.
US may provide ‘defensive’ nuclear, biological equip-ment to India,Security Issues, News Analysis, India News Online
http://nosint.blogspot.com/2009/05/india-to-build-32-airships-six.html
India to build 32 airships, six submarines in 3 years: Navy chief
India is all set to build on its own at least 32 naval airships and six submarines in three years' time as part of its Navy's modernization program, Indian Navy chief Admiral Suresh Mehta said Tuesday.
"The Indian Navy would build 32 warships and six submarines using indigenous technology by the year 2012," Mehta told the media in the eastern Indian city of Kolkata on the sidelines of commissioning of the Navy's sixth Landing Ship Tank, Airavat, into the Eastern Naval Command.
US may provide ‘defensive’ nuclear, biological equip-ment to India,Security Issues, News Analysis, India News Online
The navy is aggressively persuaded acquisition of advance combat and survey lance jets (the acquisition of P8i is one such example). Now with a stable government in the center there will a massive increment in the purchasing of arms. As there is no "left parties" to oppose deals with USA and Israel
dragonfire
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Yeah the stable govt without too much outside support esp the left not being in the ruling coaliton (being anti-bjp will work for the incumbent govt as well he he) as well the fact that the defence minister will be the same as the previous one will work in favor of the indian defence forces and the acquisition and modernisation programes
Hope the Navy gets a meaty bite out of the chunk of new programes - the IN deperately lacks subs and other vessels, however the P81 was ordered by the previous govt.
Am sure the within the next 6 months we can possibly witness newer orders from the Navy to top the previous ones
The only large IN acquisition AFAIK pending is the follow-on order to the initial set of Scorpenes, which by the way has run into delays and cost overruns, a headache for the IN.
dragonfire
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You mean the IN is supposed to have more than the 6 initialy ordered ? How many more do you think
I was assuming the Indo French Scorpene program was progressing without too many hiccups unlike lets say the AWACs program or the Gorshkov/Vikramaditya
The initial six Sorpene SSK is under Project 75. The follow-on order for additional SSKs is Project 75A for next generation SSKs. Whilst India is constructing the hulls, the internals are coming from France which is practically doubling the price leading to the cost overruns and delays.
Navy’s sub project slips on time, climbs on cost
dragonfire
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Thanks for the info SD
Well that will be a major focus area am sure for the new govt to sort out apart from the Gorshkov deal, the Min of Def has already made statements reg the deliveries of the AWACs earlier ordered
Am sure Teams would be leaving for france for negotiations pretty soon if that is the case
Navy Analysis
FYI for an “academic” view of the Navy from outside, there are two articles in the current issues of Asian Security that examine the fleet and broader issues in Asia.
Keeping the Dragon at Bay: India's Counter-Containment of China in Asia - Asian Security
By Iskander Rehman, a PhD student enrolled in the Asia Program of the CERI (Centre d'Etudes et de Recherches Internationales) in Paris who is currently preparing a thesis on India's Navy and Maritime Strategy under the guidance of Doctor Christophe Jaffrelot.
And
Delhi's Pacific Ambition: Naval Power, Look East, and India's Emerging Influence in the Asia-Pacific - Asian Security
By Walter Ladwig, a Predoctoral Fellow at the Miller Center of Public Affairs, University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia, USA.
In the same issues there is also an article on
The Evolution of China's Naval Strategy and Capabilities: From Near Coast and Near Seas to Far Seas - Asian Security
by a professor at the U.S. Naval War College
Admin: Details added and enhanced
Biography: Nan Li is associate professor at the Strategic Research Department of the US Naval War College, Newport, Rhode Island, USA, and a member of its China Maritime Studies Institute.
FYI for an “academic” view of the Navy from outside, there are two articles in the current issues of Asian Security that examine the fleet and broader issues in Asia.
Keeping the Dragon at Bay: India's Counter-Containment of China in Asia - Asian Security
By Iskander Rehman, a PhD student enrolled in the Asia Program of the CERI (Centre d'Etudes et de Recherches Internationales) in Paris who is currently preparing a thesis on India's Navy and Maritime Strategy under the guidance of Doctor Christophe Jaffrelot.
And
Delhi's Pacific Ambition: Naval Power, Look East, and India's Emerging Influence in the Asia-Pacific - Asian Security
By Walter Ladwig, a Predoctoral Fellow at the Miller Center of Public Affairs, University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia, USA.
In the same issues there is also an article on
The Evolution of China's Naval Strategy and Capabilities: From Near Coast and Near Seas to Far Seas - Asian Security
by a professor at the U.S. Naval War College
Admin: Details added and enhanced
Biography: Nan Li is associate professor at the Strategic Research Department of the US Naval War College, Newport, Rhode Island, USA, and a member of its China Maritime Studies Institute.
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I don't want to pay for those articles, so I will go with what I know.
How does India expect to contain PLAN at this point? A few years ago, you could still argue that IN was ahead of PLAN in terms of hardware. Other than a barely functional aircraft carrier, there really is no way you can argue that right now. And the gap is getting increasingly larger every year. With all the documented delays in the current projects like Scorpene, Project 15A, Shivalik, IAC, Adm G, it sounds like a lot of this will push IN modernization even further behind. We don't see any kind of delays in Chinese shipyards. And a lot of that has to do with Indian ships dependent on parts from other country. So, when Obama says I want to review all previous defense transactions, LM-2500 delivery gets postponed for a while. There simply isn't this problem for PLAN. Even if all the military shipyards in Russia and India are working for IN, it wouldn't be able to match the outputs in China.
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I think you keep on forgetting what India is investing into with all the delayed projects, ship building capacity, and there was not much capacity before these projects, reading about the changes in hardware specs on a project like the P-15A will a much better Idea
buying from non russian sources brings in a lot of very cutting edge tech.
Why would anyone think IN is going to match PLAN ship for ship?
Exactly how many PLAN vessels are present in the IOR region right now?
dragonfire
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I completely agree on this point, woefuly insufficent and outdated as it is
Yeah that's a joke when is India ever going to have 60 subs that PLAN has
But I have to agree that inorder to contain the PLAN the IN doesnt need to match up on a asset to asset to basis, it can focus instead on denial of access to IOR
Any conflict btw India and China will primarily be focused on the Armies and the Air Forces (remember in the last conflict not even the air force was used by either country - although ostensibly to contain the conflict from going more broad based)
IOR is a huge place, and why will IN deny acess to anyone, it doesnot own the place.
The only areas where any conflict can take place are real high mountains, and the troop numbers are already matched evenly, might be too tough a deal to attempt for any side.
Besides, its difficult to see a conflict between PRC and India, there is nothing to fight for.
dragonfire
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I meant I agree that IN has very less number of submarines and that the ones it has are outdated (we still have a Couple of Foxtrot class subs!!) and the ones that are in service are often rendered useless beacuse of time consuming overhauls and maint.
dragonfire
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We are discussing this only keeping in mind a flare up btw the two countries or during a war to prevent PLAN naval assets from affecting the Indian Millitary assets or the country itself
We agree on this point, however very recently there has been (in the past two weeks) some troop build up/posturing. The chinese media is projecting this as an aggressive move by India