Indian Military Aviation; News, Updates & Discussions

Ananda

The Bunker Group

When I read this, I always wonder why after all this year India still have faith with HAL ? They are late on delivering Tejas Mk1, late with Mk 1A then will definetely late again with Tejas Mk2.

They should let Tata group take over the project. Then again as coming from a country that also keep pushing SOE on strategic projects (no matter how many times those SOE screew up), I also understand why India Administration keep pushing HAL as projects implementor.
 

When I read this, I always wonder why after all this year India still have faith with HAL ? They are late on delivering Tejas Mk1, late with Mk 1A then will definetely late again with Tejas Mk2.

They should let Tata group take over the project. Then again as coming from a country that also keep pushing SOE on strategic projects (no matter how many times those SOE screew up), I also understand why India Administration keep pushing HAL as projects implementor.
I'm not defending HAL but its head said that they didn't deliver LCAs bcoz of GE414 engine undelivered. IAF countered that they would have kept the engine-less airframe in storage till engine arrived. HAL didn't seem keen on delivering incomplete jet.
Another observaion is that HAL is not as big as it should be to handle everything - LCA, LCH, ALH, trainer, SU-30 MKI, Jaguar, MiG-29, Mirage-2000, etc.

Our private business tycoons like Tata, Ambani were very keen on bagging deal to make F-16/18 while IAF rejected them. They won't do any R&D even jointly. There are some social, political reasons also. That's why there is an atmosphere of caution for these quick profit oriented "baniya" tycoons.
 
Some new poor quality images of TEDBF have emerged.
It looks like modified Rafale.
Even after IN indicating 5gen TEDBF, AFAIK there is no official response from ADA on it.

1748786198648.png
1748786204227.png
1748786209192.png
1748786214413.png
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
private business tycoons like Tata, Ambani were very keen on bagging deal to make F-16/18 while IAF rejected them. They won't do any R&D even jointly. There are some social, political reasons also. That's why there is an atmosphere of caution for these quick profit oriented "baniya" tycoons.
All Private Sectors are having traders mentality first, even the ones that become Industrialist. This especially true in most Global South. However this also means they have mostly better project management mentality then most State Owned Enterprise (SOE).

The bureacrats off course prefer to give projects to SOE that they can control more, and politically always provide better image that government projects goes to their owned business. However that's what makes many SOE throughout Global South have complacent mentality. Whatever their performance are, they will get the job/projects are.

Aerospace industry is very capital and tech incentive. Tata Group already wiling to invest on that industry. Something that only few countries that have private sectors willing to venture in that area. In my opinion India should give then manufacturing projects to compete with HAL. The RnD mostly done through DRDO, and let not all projects goes to HAL. Complacent mentality will only be the results if HAL being guarantee to get most projects. That's already happening in many SOE throughout Asia Global South nations.
 
All Private Sectors are having traders mentality first, even the ones that become Industrialist. This especially true in most Global South. However this also means they have mostly better project management mentality then most State Owned Enterprise (SOE).

The bureacrats off course prefer to give projects to SOE that they can control more, and politically always provide better image that government projects goes to their owned business. However that's what makes many SOE throughout Global South have complacent mentality. Whatever their performance are, they will get the job/projects are.

Aerospace industry is very capital and tech incentive. Tata Group already wiling to invest on that industry. Something that only few countries that have private sectors willing to venture in that area. In my opinion India should give then manufacturing projects to compete with HAL. The RnD mostly done through DRDO, and let not all projects goes to HAL. Complacent mentality will only be the results if HAL being guarantee to get most projects. That's already happening in many SOE throughout Asia Global South nations.
We should not bluntly equate trader's profit mentality with project management skill, bcoz greed for profit can result in corruption, unethical & dangerous shortcuts on the name cost cutting, etc. We've seen that with Boeing. & past companies also.
If someone's project management is o damn good then R&D should not be a problem, bcoz it is a calculated risk. at some point in future it'll pay off by huge amount.
The private sector also needs to understand that defence is about national security, not profit security & try to sell consumer goods, capture market.
Patriotism is more important then profit, otherwise even LM, NG, Boeing have got scolding by USAF/GoUSA.
Currently they will be making just some components, not designing a jet. So everything will be fixed finitely, # of jets in IAF, their components, cost, profit margin, etc.
If you look at subsideries of Tata group like TCS, Tata motors, etc then there have been many complains on management & work culture.
Personally, i don't trust either Tata or Ambani, IDK about Adani.
I'm not defending HAL but it is also a fact that it makes everything - fighter jets, transport jet, transport helos, attack helos, trainers, etc. So to handle new projects, they'll need new facilities.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

If this is true, then perhaps this is way out for India to gain domestication of Turbofan production. Not only AMCA but also Tejas Mk2. Honestly I see more potential in Tejas Mk2 then AMCA.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
The IHI XF9-1 is much more powerful than the General Electric F414 INS6 engine for the Tejas Mk.2, but it is also much larger. Too large to fit into the Tejas Mk.2.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Agree It could be too big for Tejas MK2, if they already set for Tejas MK2 production will use GE414 class range. Still the prototype for Tejas MK2 also not finished yet. Also seems India looking for same engine for Tejas MK2 and AMCA Safran Proposes Dual Engine Development for India’s Tejas MkII and AMCA Programs - Indian Defence Research Wing, as if both program come to fruition it is going within short time difference.
The XF9-1 has a larger diameter and is almost one meter longer. So it is not just "some modifications" in the fuselage for other cables, tubing and accessory gearbox, but a complete redesign of the Mk.2. That means even more delay for many years.
 

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
The XF9-1 has a larger diameter and is almost one meter longer. So it is not just "some modifications" in the fuselage for other cables, tubing and accessory gearbox, but a complete redesign of the Mk.2. That means even more delay for many years.
Whats a 5 year delay to a porject that has been going on for decades.
 

koxinga

Well-Known Member
The only real option on the table was the EJ200, which was studied for both MK1 and MK2, and is within the parameters of a F414.

But it is moot point at this stage to throw more money/redesign at the platform.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

The image on this article are similar with what @Bhartiya sainik put above.


This two seems not related, but from Indian forums there're some talks on either Tejas Mk2 being redesign to come to same class as Rafale or AMCA project and Tejas Mk2 being merge.

Perhaps this is why India MinDef now looking around for partner after Kevari engine more or less stuck. Question now is India want to have share IP to whatever engine being choices. Whether RR, Safran, GE or IHI, got a feeling India want to develop engine where the engine partner want to share IP with India.

it is moot point at this stage to throw more money/redesign at the platform.
What if that's what being choose by India, as they want Fighter with engine that both India have control. Rafale despite the talk on the performance on latest skirmish with Pakistan J-10C, seems India quite satisfied with performance. However with reservation on source code denial, what if India choose to build their own Rafale. This Tejas Mk2 twin engine is the 'speculation' on that way.

It is not first time India ditch a program and redesign to another direction. I just have doubt they have both time and budget to work out definite Tejas Mk2 and AMCA at similar close time frame, as it is now.


Tejas Mk2 at this current configuration is 90-95 Kn while according to that article what MinDef looking is 110-130 Kn. This again raise question whether Tejas Mk2 being ditched and goes straight to AMCA, or aspects of Tejas Mk2 being redesigned with aspects of AMCA and make Tejas Mk2 Twin Engine.
 
Last edited:
Top