Hellenic Navy

icelord

icelord

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
So Greece went with the pick and mix?

3 French Belharra for Interim
US contractors and staff (30 by looks of it) to help upgrade Meko in Greek shipyard
4 US LCS+ freedom class for frigates

Bit of a surprise as I thought the US was outside compared with Euro bids lile Damen or Naval group offer.
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
Belharra for interim? That doesn't make sense. Three brand new ships which would have to be sold on as an interim capability?

The report says that the US govt. has approved an upgrade deal & the sale of four new frigates. That doesn't mean the Greeks & LM have signed contracts. It just means that if the Greeks accept LM's offers, LM is allowed to proceed with them. As far as I can see the Greeks are free to accept both deals, one, or neither, & the interim offer (for ex-USN ships) can be tied in to whichever the Greeks go with.

BTW, the Greek defence ministry is reported to have said yesterday (11th December) that the Belharra contract is final, & the French defence ministry said that the contract had just been signed.
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
Sandhi Yudha said:
In this article we can read that Greece has a three-part plan:
"Greece has an ongoing competition for a three-part plan: upgrade its four Hydra-class MEKO 200 frigates; obtain an interim capability it can operate while the MEKOs are at the maintenance yard; and buy four new frigates."

And it seems the US will offer this plan for the second part,
that the US Navy will provide four decommissioned ships — potentially decommissioned LCSs or cruisers, as the interim solution.

www.defensenews.com

State Department approves potential frigate sale to Greece, despite agreement with France

Though France in September announced an agreement to sell Greece three frigates, Greece asked the U.S. to continue finalizing its proposal for four new frigates, modernizing existing Hellenic Navy ships and providing an interim solution for Greek sailors to use during that modernization effort.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com
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Among the items in the list of equipment are some expected (e.g. TRS-4D radar, CAPTAS-2 sonar) & some I didn't expect: "Common Anti-Air Modular Missile (CAMM); Common Anti-Air Modular Missile- Extended Range (CAMM-ER);"
 
icelord

icelord

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
swerve said:
Belharra for interim? That doesn't make sense. Three brand new ships which would have to be sold on as an interim capability?

The report says that the US govt. has approved an upgrade deal & the sale of four new frigates. That doesn't mean the Greeks & LM have signed contracts. It just means that if the Greeks accept LM's offers, LM is allowed to proceed with them. As far as I can see the Greeks are free to accept both deals, one, or neither, & the interim offer (for ex-USN ships) can be tied in to whichever the Greeks go with.

BTW, the Greek defence ministry is reported to have said yesterday (11th December) that the Belharra contract is final, & the French defence ministry said that the contract had just been signed.
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Sorry, I meant the Interim option requrst as provided by the French was the Belharra when originally discussed.

Looking further, the LCS is the interim as they will come from USN stocks (Shocked they would want to offload and LCS quickly)

The Belharra was pretty much sorted but they didnt take the full French option and chose to pick and choose. The way it was originally set out, you pick a country from the options and they provide all 3, New ship, Upgrade Meko and interim capability.

This seems like the greek Navy requested what was best for them and that was 3 seperate options rather then a whole package from 1 Country...and I think thats the smart choice
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group

Greece first FDI (Belhara) being launch by NG. NG so far hope for FDI as their main export orders. Xavier ask whether they also competing for Corvette program.
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
icelord said:
Looking further, the LCS is the interim as they will come from USN stocks (Shocked they would want to offload and LCS quickly)
Click to expand...
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1747219858964554033

Seems Greece already moving along quite in advance stage on negotiations path toward acquiring that 4 LCS. Looking to Greece track record, an 'interim' acquisition can actually means at least two decades of operation. So in practice not really interim.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Four LCS vessels….I realize Greece is limited wrt funds and no doubt these are being offered for just about SFA but could be a major PITA. For coastal patrol perhaps a viable option, they would be close to ports for repair. Apparently Greece has been approved for a possible F-35 sale. Perhaps a less capable fighter in exchange for better naval assets might be advised.
 
R

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
John Fedup said:
Four LCS vessels….I realize Greece is limited wrt funds and no doubt these are being offered for just about SFA but could be a major PITA. For coastal patrol perhaps a viable option, they would be close to ports for repair. Apparently Greece has been approved for a possible F-35 sale. Perhaps a less capable fighter in exchange for better naval assets might be advised.
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Greece has decent sized Frigate force of 13 Frigates, well on paper at least. The youngest is 26yo the oldest 45yo. Current plans are for three+one option, Belharra class from France, refit the four Meko 200 currently in service, looks like buy four 2nd hand LCS from the USA all by 2032. There is also a requirement for four large Corvettes.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Redlands18 said:
Greece has decent sized Frigate force of 13 Frigates, well on paper at least. The youngest is 26yo the oldest 45yo. Current plans are for three+one option, Belharra class from France, refit the four Meko 200 currently in service, looks like buy four 2nd hand LCS from the USA all by 2032. There is also a requirement for four large Corvettes.
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Compared to Canada they aren’t really have all that bad off, especially wrt subs considering they have only 25% of our population and a much smaller GDP.
 
R

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
John Fedup said:
Compared to Canada they aren’t really have all that bad off, especially wrt subs considering they have only 25% of our population and a much smaller GDP.
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The main problem for Greece is the age of the 9 Eli class Frigates (ex Dutch Kortenaer class) built between 1975 and 1983. I suspect Greece buying the four LCS may be a sign that the Eli's are completely knackered, that even with their problems the LCS are going to be better value than trying to continue operating the Eli's. Greece is way better off for Subs than Canada with four modern Type 214s, the Type 209s though are getting very long in the tooth.
Greece also has a large number of old FACs and PBs in need of replacing and a project for 4 large Corvettes is awaiting final approval.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
If buying 4 LCS for a bargain price opens the door on co- production of Constellation class frigates Greece can tolerate the PITA LCSs. A Greek Constellation before a CSC….pity the poor defence minister who would have to explain that!
 
R

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
John Fedup said:
If buying 4 LCS for a bargain price opens the door on co- production of Constellation class frigates Greece can tolerate the PITA LCSs. A Greek Constellation before a CSC….pity the poor defence minister who would have to explain that!
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Oh, the French will love this, Greece buying Constellations off the US while at the same time France and Greece are building Belharra's and Greece is also looking at 4 European Patrol Corvettes. Of course, the Constellations would be fitted out very differently to the Belharra's and EPCs, with mostly US systems as compared to mainly French and Euro systems. A fleet of 7 Constellations, 3-4 Belharra's and 4 EPCs would create 2 separate fleets.
I don't think we would see a Greek Constellation in service before 2032.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
I don't think the RCN will see an operational CSC before 2032 either, perhaps not even a IOC ship by then.
 
K

koxinga

Well-Known Member
Redlands18 said:
The main problem for Greece is the age of the 9 Eli class Frigates (ex Dutch Kortenaer class) built between 1975 and 1983. I suspect Greece buying the four LCS may be a sign that the Eli's are completely knackered, that even with their problems the LCS are going to be better value than trying to continue operating the Eli's. Greece is way better off for Subs than Canada with four modern Type 214s, the Type 209s though are getting very long in the tooth.
Greece also has a large number of old FACs and PBs in need of replacing and a project for 4 large Corvettes is awaiting final approval.
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I don't disagree with why Greece needs new hulls to replace the Eli class. My question in the Aust thread relates to their mission.

If they are looking at cruising around, flying the flag missions, like an OPV and just to add to numbers in the short term, sure. But if the mission to be a principal surface combatant like the Elis, it falls short without a considerable refit to up arm them. If the ships themselves are free, the cost to fix the reliability issues and uparm them might make sense. But what do I know?
 
M

Meriv90

Active Member
So Norwegians are looking for cooperation for their new 6 frigates.
As you said the main problem of the constellation class is that it is too big for Norwegian crew requirements.
But if there was a scaled down constellation.

Another anonymous source clarified to Naval News that Greece, while not constructing exact replicas of the Constellation-class frigates, is planning to build a scaled-down version. This ‘Europeanized’ iteration of the FFG-62 is expected to feature fewer weapons and a smaller size, outlining a distinct approach to the naval project. This translates to a frigate with approximately 5,000 tons displacement, a length nearing around 140 meters, equipped with a 76mm or 127mm gun, four 8-cell Mk-41 Vertical Launch System (VLS) for AAW capability, eight SSM, RAM CIWS, torpedo launchers and a comprehensive sonar suite encompassing Hull-Mounted Sonar (HMS) and Variable Depth Sonar (VDS). This naturally raises the question of whether the hull will be that of the Italian FREMM, the same design upon which the American variant was based.
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Probably the crew requirement of this European FFG-62 would fit also Norwegian needs.

Yes it is a new project but from an architecture that would have already several variants thus with experience on the modifications.
 
7

76mmGuns

Active Member
I guess this will help Greece's economy, building 7 constellations. 7 is a lot for a small to mid sized nation!

But logistics........I guess this will employ more office workers and help the Greek economy even more! lol
 
R

Reptilia

Active Member
7 full size constellation class? FREMM redesign? or the ‘light frigate’ (mini constellation) being built by Taiwan and offered to Australia.

Constellation is 150+m
Naval news article states 140m, around the size of the FREMM.
Light frigates offered to Taiwan/Aus were 115-117m, ‘crew size is aimed at less than 100’.
 
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