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Great Commanders in History

Discussion in 'Strategy & Tactics' started by fieldmarshal, Jun 10, 2004.

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  1. fieldmarshal

    fieldmarshal New Member

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    Great Commanders

    Throught out history we have read and seen great commanders, who have achieved geat things in battle. They have been able to turn the tide to their advatage in situations were it seemed that all was lost.So wt are the qualities that make a great commander

    There are three sort of commanders

    1 The first is the commander who plans in great detail.He plans to such an extent that each and every eventuality is taken care off.
    planing in great detail is all very nice but there is a draw back in such a commander and that is they tend to be some what fussy. A good example is the commanders of world war 1.

    2. The second kind, is the commander who has instinctive grasp, chrisma, flare.eg Pattern. The drawback in such a commander is that he is very erratic.

    3. The third kind is the very rear kind. The kind who has a combination of the first two. A very good example is admiral Nelson of royal navy.Nelson use to plan in great detail. He use to talk to his captains and plan to meet all eventualities. In all most all situations the fleet knew what to do as the plan had covered all eventualities. But at the same time Nelson had the chrisma and the moral courage to tear up plans in the heat pf the battle and go for any situation that presented it self
    It is this combination of the two which makes for not only a great Commander but a great leader.
     
  2. fieldmarshal

    fieldmarshal New Member

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    Re: Great Commanders

    Rommel was in the same league as Nelson, he was a great commander, only if hitler had given him the resources to fight in africa he for sure would have defeated the allies.
    Montgomery was a planner in the mould of ww1 commanders. It was his good luck that he was sorrounded by other good commanders.
     
  3. gf0012-aust

    gf0012-aust Grumpy Old Man Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

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    Re: Great Commanders

    General Sir John Monash. Hamel WW1. The first general to engage the enemy under the concept of combined arms. Integrated the use of air (reccon prior to bombardment), used Tanks successfully for the first time, used Infantry as shock troops and seized a battlefied in 93 mins. Something that had taken 9 months with no success. He involved all his commanders and platoon leaders in the final planning, and had command of the americans (one of the few times where americans have been commanded by foreign soldiers.) Attacked on July 4th as he knew that it was symbolic for the US soldiers under his command.

    Subodai. Possibly the Mongols greatest general. Has been described as creating a 21st century army in the 13th century. Created leadership by meritocracy, manipulated 2 armies nearly 2000k's apart in real time with the final battle plan requiring convergence. Integrated the use of light and heavy cavalry with ballisticians. The first military leader to understand the power of logistics and the only leader to have successfully travelled the length of greater china, russia and eastern europe with a string of unbroken conquest. The only military leader to beat the Russians.

    Also the first military leader to engage in a theatre war with multiple armies. The first to use the principle of a "pony express" to send tactical communications at an intercontinental level.
    He also helped to militarily construct the largest contiguous land empre the world has ever seen.
     
  4. srirangan

    srirangan Banned Member

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    Very nice thread.. *listening*
     
  5. fieldmarshal

    fieldmarshal New Member

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    Re: Great Commanders

    Philip the king of Macedonia(Alaxendars father) was one one the greatest tactician and strategist in the history of warfare. He was the first king who employed a professional army. He trained em and paid em all year around.
    At the time the greatest startegy of warfare was "Fa-lanke". He took it a step further.
    He lenghtened the spears from 8 feet to 12 feet and lightened the body armour.He employed archers and cavelary in cordination with the fa-lankes. thus makin it more potent.
    He after perfecting his technique went to war and captured large parts of europe, but he wanted to capture the Greek city states, to crown it all. So he went to war against them. He had an army of 30000 while the Greeks had an army of 80000.Alexender who was 18 at the time commanded the cavilary and played a very decisive part in the victory over the Greeks.
    Philip died two years after this, leaving Alexander the throne.
     
  6. fieldmarshal

    fieldmarshal New Member

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    Re: Great Commanders

    Bebar led a milatary coup against the king of Egypt, which resulted in the removal of the family od Salah- Ud- Din Ayubi from power.Bebar built en empire based on war. He went on to crush the barbaric crusaders once and for all. He disloged them from the holylands completely. He to this day is greatly reveared by the muslims as he is the one who defeated and distroyed the crusaders completely.
     
  7. The Watcher

    The Watcher New Member

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    Re: Great Commanders

    Who was this baber? It was Salaudin Ayubi that fought that Crusaders not baber shaber. :roll
     
  8. fieldmarshal

    fieldmarshal New Member

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    Re: Great Commanders

    Watcher go n read some history and specially the crusades .after u ave done that than u come and talk with me........u are ignorant and even more so if ur a muslim.......do u even know how long the crusades went on for ?? do you even know how many there were???? wt do u think saludin lived for 2-3 centuries......u watcher are ignorant, i pitty u.
    So take my advise and read some history....other wise as ur name says just continue to watching :smokingc:

    Admin Edit: It is unacceptable to insult other posters in here. Learn to counter arguments without resorting to abuse. You have a greater chance of getting people to listen and learn if you take a less aggressive approach
     
  9. The Watcher

    The Watcher New Member

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    fieldmarshal, before you go on insulting and degrading me for not possessing "knowledge" as much as you do. Spare me the "know it all" talk:

    http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0843183.html

    Arabic in full SALAH AD-DIN YUSUF IBN AYYUB ("Righteousness of the Faith, Joseph, Son of Job"), also called AL-MALIK AN-NASIR SALAH AD-DIN YUSUF I (b. 1137/38, Tikrit, Mesopotamia--d. March 4, 1193, Damascus), Muslim sultan of Egypt, Syria, Yemen, and Palestine, founder of the Ayyubid dynasty, and the most famous of Muslim heroes.
    In wars against the Christian crusaders, he achieved final success with the disciplined capture of Jerusalem (Oct. 2, 1187), ending its 88-year occupation by the Franks. The great Christian counterattack of the Third Crusade was then stalemated by Saladin's military genius.

    http://numerus.ling.uu.se/~kamalk/language/saladin.html

    I don't know where you got this baber shaber guy from. He may have lived after or before Saladin but the main capture and defeat of crusaders happened at the hands of saladin ayubi.
     
  10. mysterious

    mysterious New Member

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    Re: Great Commanders

    My picks would be Saladin and Genghis Khan for the moment. :smokingc:
     
  11. fieldmarshal

    fieldmarshal New Member

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    Re: Great Commanders

    Watcher read the following............ The Fifth Crusade (1217-1221) managed briefly to capture Damietta in Egypt, but the Muslims eventually defeated the army and reoccupied the city. St. Louis IX of France led two Crusades in his life. The first also captured Damietta, but Louis was quickly outwitted by the Egyptians and forced to abandon the city. Although Louis was in the Holy Land for several years, spending freely on defensive works, he never achieved his fondest wish: to free Jerusalem. He was a much older man in 1270 when he led another Crusade to Tunis, where he died of a disease that ravaged the camp. After St. Louis’s death, the Muslim leaders, Baybars and Kalavun, waged a jihad against the Christians in Palestine. By 1291, the Muslim forces had succeeded in killing or ejecting the last of the Crusaders, thus erasing the Crusader kingdom from the map. Despite numerous attempts and many more plans, Christian forces were never again able to gain a foothold in the region until the 19th century.
     
  12. fieldmarshal

    fieldmarshal New Member

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    Re: Great Commanders

    sorry for the spellin mistake......if u stil daubt me than i suggest that u get hold of a copy of BBC/A&E documentary, The Crusades, hosted by Terry Jones. it is the most even handed and factual documentry that you will ever hear see or read
     
  13. fieldmarshal

    fieldmarshal New Member

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    Re: Great Commanders

    the only reason why Salahud din is the only muslim comander ever mentioned is the fact that that he reached a peace treaty with richard and treated the prisioners fairly......He was a great leder as he was the first muslim ruler who had gathered all the muslims togethers......by any means necessary. but as a milatary commander he was not able to dislodge the christan crusaders from the middle east as a result the whole thing lingered on for centuries.............while Baybar on the other hand not only defeated them but he was successful in removing even the last traces of the crusaders. Thus bringing the the whole christian crusading to an end. Other wise it would have gone on for God knows how long. And yes he was ruthless.
     
  14. amit21mech

    amit21mech New Member

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    Re: Great Commanders

    Field Marshal Sam Hormusji Framji Jamshedji Manekshaw or in short SAM Manekshaw of India Army who was architect of India's heroic victory in the 1971 Indo-Pak war.
    Manekshaw became the 8th Army Chief of India on 7th June 1969. His years of military experience were soon put to the test as thousands of refugees from the erstwhile East Pakistan started crossing over to India as a result of oppression unleashed from West Pakistan. The volatile situation got worse, and soon erupted into a full-scale war in December 1971.

    During the military campaign, Manekshaw showed uncommon ability to motivate the forces, coupling it with a mature war strategy. The war ended with Pakistan's unconditional surrender, and the formation of Bangladesh. More than 90,000 Pakistani soldiers were taken as POWs.




    He joined the first batch of 40 cadets at Indian Military Academy(IMA), Dehra Dun on 1st October 1932. He passed out of the IMA in December 1934 and was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in the Indian Army. He held several regimental assignments and was first attached to the Royal Scouts and later to the 12 Frontier Force Rifles.

    During World War II, he saw action in the Burma campaign on Sittang river and has the rare distinction of being honoured for his bravery on the battle front itself. During World War II, he was leading a counter-offensive against the invading Japanese Army in Burma. As he charged forward with his men, a Japanese soldier suddenly emerged from the bushes and fired at him, wounding him seriously in the stomach. Fortunately, Major General D.T. Cowan spotted Manekshaw holding on to life and was aware of his valour in face of stiff resistance from the Japanese. Fearing the worst, Major General Cowan quickly pinned his own Military Cross ribbon on to Manekshaw saying, "A dead person cannot be awarded a Military Cross."



    Having recovered from those near-fatal wounds in Burma, Manekshaw went for a course at Staff College, Quetta and later also served there as an instructor before being sent to join 12 Frontier Force Rifles in Burma under General (later Field Marshal) Slim's 14th Army. He was once again involved in a fierce battle with the Japanese, and was wounded for a second time. Towards the close of World War II, Manekshaw was sent as Staff Officer to General Daisy in Indo-China where, after the Japanese surrender, he helped rehabilitate over 10,000 POWs. He, then, went on a six-month lecture tour to Australia in 1946, and after his return served as a First Grade Staff Officer in the Military Operations Directorate.

    Manekshaw showed acumen for planning and administration while handling the issues related to partition in 1947, and later put to use his battle skills during the 1947-48 Jammu & Kashmir Operations. After command of an Infantry Brigade he was posted as the Commandant of the Infantry School and also became the Colonel of 8 Gorkha Rifles (his regimental home) and 61 Cavalry. He commanded a Division in Jammu & Kashmir and a Corps in the North East, with a tenure as Commandant of Defence Services Staff College (DSSC) in between. As GOC-in-C Eastern Command, he handled the tricky problem of insurgency in Nagaland and the grateful nation honoured him with a Padma Bhushan in 1968.

    Manekshaw became the 8th Army Chief when he succeeded General Kumaramangalam on 7th June 1969. His years of military experience were soon put to the test as thousands of refugees from the erstwhile East Pakistan started crossing over to India as a result of oppression unleashed from West Pakistan. The volatile situation got worse, and soon erupted into a full-scale war in December 1971.

    During the military campaign, Manekshaw showed uncommon ability to motivate the forces, coupling it with a mature war strategy. The war ended with Pakistan's unconditional surrender, and the formation of Bangladesh. More than 90,000 Pakistani soldiers were taken as POWs.

    General Manekshaw congratulates troops of the victorious Indian Army.

    General Manekshaw is greeted by the defeated East-Pakistani Commander, General Tikka Khan. For his selfless service to the nation, the President of India awarded him a Padma Vibhushan in 1972 and conferred upon him the rank of Field Marshal on 1st January 1973.
     
  15. mysterious

    mysterious New Member

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    Re: Great Commanders

    LOL. 1971 was crap! Those 90,000 were no big deal as they were facing the entire Indian Army plus Mukti Bahini. The PAF had one squadron pitched against 7 or 8 of the IAF, but still PAF was only taken out of war over there after its 'only' airfield was destroyed. From what I've come to know from internal sources and witnesses of that time; the guy (it was Tikka Khan I think) incharge of the Pakistan Army there in former East Pakistan was a coward at heart and not the best of people to lead the army (plus he or someone else even had a secret deal with some Indian Army officers to give them a walk over without Pakistan Army even putting up a good fight even though they had a lot of weapons' stockpiles to fight on for atleast another month). I regard that defeat as a failure of internal structures and mechanisms rather than something 'big' by the Indian Army. :cop
     
  16. Soldier

    Soldier New Member

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    Re: Great Commanders

    Mysterious, That is one reason why Indian defence books are full of sarcasim about Tikka Khan but not about a field level officer or Pakistani Soldier. Regardless if Indian Army's Sam Manekshaw was not a strategist to use everything to his advantage, he would not be a great Chief. He used all the vunerabilities to India's advantage this is why he is still considered the best Armed Chief in India, a person whose personality use to keep even Indira Gandhi in her shoes..
     
  17. mysterious

    mysterious New Member

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    Re: Great Commanders

    I dont see why even a 'normal' Chief of an army not do what Sam Manekshaw did considering Tikka Khan's profile and character. Believe me, from the witnesses of 1971 crisis, I have heard very disturbing stories about how some of the people in the military of the eastern wing of Pakistan betrayed their country and what all they did to make sure that those 90,000 privates weren't even ordered to put up resistance but just to put their arms down!! My heart breaks in to a million pieces when I hear things that happened then and believe me, more than anything it was Pakistan's internal problems that led to the breakup of the east and nothing more that significant. One more thing is that, the rulers in the west Pakistan at that time had almost already decided that the east wing was a pain in the *&%!*@ due to Mujeeb Ur-Rehman (a.k.a. Indian agent) and it was rather felt as a relief in the political establishement to have gotten rid of the 'burden' one way or the other. Look at Bangladesh now, what did they achieve by breaking away? According to an article I read, 'sure... Pakistan is a poor country but Bangladesh is destitute'.
     
  18. fieldmarshal

    fieldmarshal New Member

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    Re: Great Commanders

    mysterious the thing is Tikka khan was not the commander of the the Pakistan army in east Pak infact it was AK Niazi. It is he who surroundered and not Tikka Khan. It is the greatest tragedy that Pakistan has ever had to come across/face. East Pakistan was not a milatary defeat it was more a political defeat.
    n as far as the bravery of the indians goes......u r right mysterious it was one squadron of f-86 versus somthin nearin 10 indian squadrons and they after suffering losses against that one squadron shifted to night attacks and did not dare to fly sorties during the day. that 1 squadron faught till the time the runway was destroyed completely n when they could not fly they still were firing rockets while on the ground.
    the indian army did not do any better most of all their offensives to capture bangladash land were meet with force and they were forced to retreat each time. as the number of troops was less so they eventually made a strategic withdrawl. The indian army captured very little land by way of fighting n east Pakistan.it is only after the surrounder that they were able to take that land.
    I say it again it was a political defeat more than a milatary defeat.

    Sorry to tell u this amit but ur nomination does not even come close to the feates achived by the people in the list above.
     
  19. amit21mech

    amit21mech New Member

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    Re: Great Commanders

    I am feeling pity for your military knowledge Mr Field Marshal. And Mysterious not even come in the picture at all( as he always has his own internal resourse and experince which are always away from reality).
    In 1971 Indian Army was clearly told that they would be having very little time once the war will start. So they have to conquer as much as land possible in B'Desh with in 2 weeks. Along with that Chines intervention Indian Army had to take care of western front too. Moreover American did unexpected by moving their navy ships against India. This situation looks easy to you? It was not that only the 13 days war my dear, it was the long and zero-defect planning. All the odds were averted and war was finished in just 13 days in that difficult terrain just becasue of careful planning and execution. And I thing Army Chiefs do planning stuff and not ground fighting.
    If Pakistani soldiers were ill equiped or in short supply than its your then moron leaders living in fools paradise not SAM. You just can not take away the credit from him for this idiotic reason.
    And you are not intelligent enough to decide whether SAM qualifies for that or not. However those are my views and I have every right of expressing those.
     
  20. adsH

    adsH New Member

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    Re: Great Commanders

    Right of Expressions and attacking others based on their views is a Concept considered wee bit apart!! you could of Expressed" your self in a more non offensive manner placing your views on the Forum without calling name or "expressing" your ill feeling of pity towards the posters!!!! Amit its almost as if your hatred is uncontrollable and its unbearable for your to Exchange your views peacefully, without adding offensive comments.
     
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