John Fedup
The Bunker Group
The US-Germany rift appears to be widening. Way to go Donald, giving Putin his first wedge into NATO. Any guesses to how long the lineup to send troops to support US troops in Afghanistan will be as his tweets continue?
Germany
- Thread starter gf0012-aust
- Start date
The problem will be that it will cause more permanent rifts, Trump seems to be making touchy situations worse.
McCain is in Australia trying the bridge the gap between the US and Australia (which honestly was not a big rift to begin with but merely posturing over a Obama deal). Making all sorts of long term reassurances.
I am not sure it will be possible to manage some of the European views.
At least Germany seems to be taking some prudent measures to ensure logistics and avalibility. It would seem to be cheap insurance.
I wonder if Germany will shift some of its resources around Latvia and Lithuania.
Unlikely in the short term. The battlegroup in Lithuania was only just completed last week with the arrival of the Norwegians.
Don't have much other troops up there right now. Air Patrol in Estonia was just handed over to Spain a month ago (after 8 months deployment), about the same time that EX Summer Shield in Latvia - which had a NBC Defense platoon and some JFST teams participating - concluded.
P.S.: BALTOPS 2017 started yesterday though. Usual German contribution is about twice what we have in the Baltics right now...
German cabinet recommends moving Bundeswehr from Incirlik base | News | DW | 07.06.2017
Found this interesting about Germany moving equipment and people out of Turkey.
Of course there are other issues, such as working in Turkey. Jordan might be politically easier to operate out of.
Found this interesting about Germany moving equipment and people out of Turkey.
Of course there are other issues, such as working in Turkey. Jordan might be politically easier to operate out of.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Excellent decision Germany, the rest of NATO should take note. Turkey is no longer reliable as an ally.
We still do have soldiers in Turkey after that, mostly the AWACS crews operating out of Konya a bit further west from Incirlik.
First troops directly from Incirlik were transferred to Al-Azraq today btw, reinforcing the small planning staff that was deployed from Germany last thursday.
Some notable problems operating in Turkey recently had Active Fence (Patriot deployment on the Syrian border), where there were some incidents - attacks - with the local population, but also in particular the - in Germany barely known - two-year deployment in Trabzon on the northern coast (air/sea logistics turntable transferring equipment back from Afghanistan) where on Turkish insistence German soldiers weren't allowed off-base in uniform, the German troops could not fly any flags from the buildings they operated from, and the whole thing went to the ridiculous extent that a visiting German Navy admiral had to fly in in civilian clothing on a non-military aircraft. Trabzon also had administrative issues where the Turkish government showed itself uncooperative (such as the medical officer having problems taking along an on-hand minimum of sedatives, or being unable to import alcohol-based desinfectants...).
First troops directly from Incirlik were transferred to Al-Azraq today btw, reinforcing the small planning staff that was deployed from Germany last thursday.
Wasn't that complicated apparently. There've been a lot less issues in practice in Incirlik than in previous German deployments to Turkey, possibly because after all pretty much half of it is a US base.
Some notable problems operating in Turkey recently had Active Fence (Patriot deployment on the Syrian border), where there were some incidents - attacks - with the local population, but also in particular the - in Germany barely known - two-year deployment in Trabzon on the northern coast (air/sea logistics turntable transferring equipment back from Afghanistan) where on Turkish insistence German soldiers weren't allowed off-base in uniform, the German troops could not fly any flags from the buildings they operated from, and the whole thing went to the ridiculous extent that a visiting German Navy admiral had to fly in in civilian clothing on a non-military aircraft. Trabzon also had administrative issues where the Turkish government showed itself uncooperative (such as the medical officer having problems taking along an on-hand minimum of sedatives, or being unable to import alcohol-based desinfectants...).
I remember almost 30 years ago encountering some antipodean women (one of who later stayed with me here 
) having a picnic in the main square in Trabzon, washed down with beer. Nobody objected, back then.
I think there have been changes for the worse in some aspects of Turkish life - & I notice that the local government in Trabzon has been run by Erdogan's party for many years.
) having a picnic in the main square in Trabzon, washed down with beer. Nobody objected, back then.I think there have been changes for the worse in some aspects of Turkish life - & I notice that the local government in Trabzon has been run by Erdogan's party for many years.
His parents are actually from that region - Rize province immediately bordering Trabzon to the east.
Around 2009 police in tourist areas started cracking down on beer consumption as a supposed violation of traffic ordinances; around 2011 alcohol-free beer was outlawed as an "entry drug"; in 2013 the sale of alcohol at night was outlawed and restaurants are required to set up separate "alcohol-free" and "alcohol" rooms, following parliament passing the required bills after Erdogan called Atatürk an alcoholic in his speech supporting it; since 2014 alcohol and places selling such may no longer be avertised, including censoring movies containing alcohol consumption scenes; in 2015 alcohol consumption in outdoor public areas was completely outlawed.
To be fair it's not that much differently handled from some parts of Germany, actually.
Full operations from Jordan started October 9th btw, after the Tornados arrived five days earlier. The last German soldiers left Incirlik on September 27th; the last two Tornados left on July 31st.
The A310-MRTT tanker was transferred directly from Incirlik to Al-Asraq and began operations from there exactly 3 months earlier on July 9th; it is apparently somewhat more crucial to the mission overall for the international partners, having performed over 500 sorties since December 2015, while the Tornados - per aircraft - only pulled half as many (at the point of its transfer to Jordan it had delivered about 10,000 tons of fuel to allied aircraft).
The transfer occured differently for the A310 than for the rest: The ground support equipment for the A310 - due to time-sensitive scheduling, the A310 was supposed to (and did) resume operations two days later - was flown in using two SALIS An-124 flights, the maintenance crews were transferred on C-160 Transalls. Transferred equipment included two large airfield tanker trucks used to load up the A310 on the tarmac with its full fuel load in under 20 minutes.
The whole support gear for the Tornados meanwhile was booked for flights on the USAF C-17 taxi service (which is somewhat notorious in the Luftwaffe for its unreliable scheduling), which probably came out slightly cheaper than wasting An-124 flight hours on that.
Some support gear for Jordan - since it's not quite like Incirlik, which is like halfway a US Air Base - was flown in from Germany using another An-124 flight (with a mobile medical station) and multiple A400M flights throughout August.
Somewhat interestingly - for a recce mission - only one of the four Tornados stationed in Al-Asraq is from TaktLwG 51 (recce focus); the other three are from TaktLwG 33 (strategic and CAS strike focus), even if used for the same mission.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
This article describes Germany's defence problems suggesting they don't merit a seat on the UN Security Council. A bit laughable considering one of the other contenders is Canada. Junior, always trying to seem more important than he is, has been promoting a seat for Canada. After pi$$ing around unsuccessfully trying to find a minimal UN mission he had to select Mali. Waste of time and money as is the UN seat. At least only 2 CH-147s Chinooks will be put at risk.
Germany pitching for UN Security Council seat, despite almost inoperable armed forces
Germany pitching for UN Security Council seat, despite almost inoperable armed forces
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Frankly the author could use a few lessons in world history and the history on non-permanent members of the UN Security Council. Take Costa Rica which IIRC was a member of the UN Security Council from 1996 to 1998, when it had abolished it's military following a civil war back in 1948. It is not the size of a nation's armed forces which is relevant to being on the Security Council.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Have to disagree. If Canada didn’t commit to Mali there was no way a seat would happen IMO.
How... unprofessional. Germany has managed to finagle a UN mission where it contributes one Major General. Nothing else, not even a car for him, not even bodyguards. One Major General.
Totally agree with the above as we (NZ) are a current member and our armed forces are not going to set the world on fire let alone have any significance to the security council.
No we aren't Rob. Our term was 2015 & 2016 and we campaigned hard to either get rid of the Big 5 veto or at least restrict its use.
OOp's was not keeping track of that one. However the relevance of the ability of the armed forces is correct. In other words they are not relevant to membership in the Security council.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Another bad news story on the status of Germany's Air Force.
Only 4 of Germany's 128 Eurofighter Jets Combat Ready — Report
Only 4 of Germany's 128 Eurofighter Jets Combat Ready — Report
Through my sport i have some friends in eastern Germany and the majority of people there is anti Trump / anti USA.
Germany is our most important country not just in Europe but evrywhere. Russia and Germany belong to each other and there cant be peace, when Russia is in conflict with Germany. Thats a fact.
When we took Crimea our president made a speech blaming entire west but spared Germany. Anti americanism is rising in Germany and the far right AfD party which had massive sucess in eastern Germany now also has sucess inwest German states.
What we see now is, that Germany condemns american strikes against Syria and also wants end sanctions against Russia. That Germany makes big energy prrojects with us and snubs buying american fracking gas.
The Germans should ask themself, our ambassador in Germany speaks fluent German. Our president speaks fluent German. The americans send a nobody as ambassador into Germany who doesnt even speak a single word German.
Germany is our most important country not just in Europe but evrywhere. Russia and Germany belong to each other and there cant be peace, when Russia is in conflict with Germany. Thats a fact.
When we took Crimea our president made a speech blaming entire west but spared Germany. Anti americanism is rising in Germany and the far right AfD party which had massive sucess in eastern Germany now also has sucess inwest German states.
What we see now is, that Germany condemns american strikes against Syria and also wants end sanctions against Russia. That Germany makes big energy prrojects with us and snubs buying american fracking gas.
The Germans should ask themself, our ambassador in Germany speaks fluent German. Our president speaks fluent German. The americans send a nobody as ambassador into Germany who doesnt even speak a single word German.
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