Welcome to DefenceTalk.com Forum!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

General Aviation Thread

Discussion in 'Air Force & Aviation' started by gf0012-aust, Jan 30, 2017.

Share This Page

  1. Ananda

    Ananda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,788
    Likes Received:
    78
    With Boeing and Airbus duopoly for the last three decades, West (in this RR, PW and GE) dominance in Jet Engine market is understandable.

    Even in Soviet era, they don't made twin engine wide bodies Airliner. Their only wide body is four engine that are more comparable to A-340.
    Sino-Russian team up on CR929 supposedly will come out with their own engine that are suitable for twin engine wide body Airliner. Even that only in the class of A-330neo or 787. Not in class of 777 or A-350. With that, they only can come out with non Western engine by second half of next decade at the soonest, thus the initial engine will used either GE new GEnX or RR Trent 7000
    GE and Rolls Royce finalists for Chinese-Russian CR929 jet engine, designer says | Article [AMP] | Reuters

    Thus at most any challenges to big Western engine will not come for at least a decade.
     
  2. ngatimozart

    ngatimozart Super Moderator Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    5,849
    Likes Received:
    762
    Location:
    In the rum store
    Re-engine the A400M with a couple of those - engine and gearbox problems solved.
     
  3. Ananda

    Ananda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,788
    Likes Received:
    78
    Brazilian government approves Boeing-Embraer joint ventures | Jane's 360

    The political hurdle for Boeing acquiring Embrear commercial business seems already cleared.

    What Boeing then will call Embrear E class ? 717 already being used for the old MD-90...797 being tounted reserved for 757 replacement..
    Boeing 808?
    Bombardier C series got Airbus 220..so perhaps Boeing will used #8xx for Embrear E series..
     
  4. Ananda

    Ananda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,788
    Likes Received:
    78
    "Black Box" CVR Lion Air JT 610 Ditemukan - Kompas.com

    After 3 months from the incidents, Indonesian Navy divers finally able to retrieve the Boeing 737Max Lion Air flight 610.

    Hope this can give more explanation on the incidents. Boeing already faced law suit in US courts filed by US law firm representing some of the vinctims family.

    In my opinion despite if really a defective parts due responsible. Lion Air it self has to take responsibility since the aircraft it self even tough still brand new already shown problems prior to the incident.

    As for me, I never take Lion Air on air travel except once. Even that once is already more than enough ;)
     
  5. ngatimozart

    ngatimozart Super Moderator Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    5,849
    Likes Received:
    762
    Location:
    In the rum store
    Yep, the 7-MAX is a new beastie and it has been suggested that the cause of both crashes may be linked to a new anti stall feature that was introduced with the 7-MAX. However that is unconfirmed supposition at the moment.
     
  6. Ananda

    Ananda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,788
    Likes Received:
    78
    My cousin is a Pilot with Garuda, and he told me the new guidance from Boeing in MAX is to reset to manual mode if there's problem with speed indicators that can cause stall condition (since the computer can self corrected the engine power, to faulty input which can cause stall). After they reset to manual mode, the problem gone.

    They are practicing like that in simulator and seems other Airlines that used MAX being practise same thing in their respective simulator.
    I'm not a pilot..but I can't wondering seems to me that kind of training eventough important, is a temporary remedies until Boeing can update their software problem.
     
  7. John Fedup

    John Fedup Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,755
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    Vancouver and Toronto
    SW, American, and Air Canada all have significant 737 Max fleets here in North America so the pressure on Boeing must be immense to solve this ASAP. Any grounding in Canada would cause chaos for domestic air travel in Canada as WestJet has some 737 Maxes as well.
     
  8. John Fedup

    John Fedup Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,755
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    Vancouver and Toronto
    Perhaps it’s tume to move this issue to the General Aviation thread.:)
     
  9. John Fedup

    John Fedup Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,755
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    Vancouver and Toronto
    Carrying over from the Military Aviation thread, pressure is mounting for a North America ban. In Canada, the government is so far resisting a737 Max ban, likely because Canada’s domestic routes served by Air Canda and WestJet use the 737 Max. Calls are coming from US pollies for a ban which will require ours to do the same.

    Several US politicians urge 737 Max grounding
     
  10. John Fedup

    John Fedup Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,755
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    Vancouver and Toronto
    Well the US and Canada have finally pulled the plug on the Max. It is the spring school break in Canada and many families flew out for southern vacations last weekend. It will be a nightmare getting back to Canada as many of Air Canada and WestJet routes use the Max for their Florida flights. All the kids will be so disappointed to be stuck at DisneyWorld and being deprived from their classrooms.:D
     
  11. Ananda

    Ananda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,788
    Likes Received:
    78
    FAA told media that their new data shown what happened to Ethiopian Air MAX8 have allignment with what happen to Lion Air MAX8.

    Eventough this's still very early in the investigation..but with FAA openly talked like that in Media, for me is not a good news for Boeing. This can lead to indication that Boeing remedies after Lion Air accident, is not enough.

    Wondering if this will give spill over momentum for C919 and MC21..considering A320 order already in back log full.
     
  12. John Fedup

    John Fedup Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,755
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    Vancouver and Toronto
    The remedies to date have been enhanced training on what do when this AoA problem leads to a vertical stall, at least this was the line airlines here were stressing. Apparently NavCanada is a beta site customer for the (Aerion?) real-time satellite monitoring system. The data was troubling enough that it prompted the Canadian government to cease all Max flights. Junior’s government is in trouble here and this issue was not helping.

    As for Boeing, they claim a software fix is close but there will likely be an intense evaluation period. Operators and governments will demand this. The US FAA does not look good in light of this problem.
     
  13. ngatimozart

    ngatimozart Super Moderator Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    5,849
    Likes Received:
    762
    Location:
    In the rum store
    Quite a bit of detail here. Apparently the FAA had refined some satellite tracking data and physical evidence that illuminated closer links between the Ethiopian and Indonesian crashes.
     
  14. swerve

    swerve Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    6,926
    Likes Received:
    60
    Location:
    Reading, Berkshire
    Why not 606?
     
  15. Ananda

    Ananda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,788
    Likes Received:
    78
    606 ? Well it also can be that..Airbus used C series as 1 digit down from their own line. Boeing can do the same with E series.

    I don't know how this 737 MAX developed further, it can be temporary glitch or it can developed farther than Boeing anticipate.
    I know E series is not in same class with 737 Max, but if some customers loosing confidence with MAX, can they look to E series as potential alternative ?

    I mean C series/ A220 already take some customers away from A319/A320..Baltic Air told in media their original plan for A319 being switched to A220.
    Can similar thing happen to 737 customers ?

    It's a bit far fetched..but some customers/countries are begin to question will Boeing plan modifications to those grounded MAX will be enough mitigation..
    One thing for sure A320/321 line already fully booked for few years ahead, while MC21 and C919 are not ready yet (however this situation can fasten some Chinese airlines to switch to C919).
     
  16. steel jo

    steel jo New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2019
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Canberra
    interesting that Ethiopia has sent the boxes to France because Germany doesnt have the capability - makes you wonder what is going on with German aerospace capabilities
     
  17. John Fedup

    John Fedup Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,755
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    Vancouver and Toronto
    The eventual 666 model would be a tough model to market in the US Bible Belt.
     
    40 deg south and Redlands18 like this.
  18. ngatimozart

    ngatimozart Super Moderator Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    5,849
    Likes Received:
    762
    Location:
    In the rum store
    Don't know, be entertaining to watch.
     
  19. John Fedup

    John Fedup Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,755
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    Vancouver and Toronto
    Seriously, Boeing should start an 808 nomenclature as it is an ascending numerical series from their 707 series. The 757 clean sheet replacement can use the last seven series, the 797. The 808 series might be the first departure from a tube fuselage with wings to a winged blended body design.
     
    ngatimozart likes this.
  20. Ananda

    Ananda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,788
    Likes Received:
    78
    I know the speed from current Airliner are determined much on economics of fuel consumption, then the need to reach destination faster.

    However, compared to Convair 880 and 990 in the 50's and 60's..which were conventional designs and non supersonics..current Airliner cruising speed are still 10% slower than those two. Granted those Convair jets were relatively thirsty even compared to their rivals 707 and DC8..still 50 years onward..the current state of the art engine can't produce cruising speed that are comparable.

    The longest route by SQ using A-350 from Sing to NY take close to 20 hours..if there's Airliner that can fly economically (on current standard) with those Convair cruising speed, my own rough calculation shown it can get with close to 18 hours..

    I know it all back to the economics of fuel consumption..still..50 years on ward and the average speed of present Airliner is getting slower instead faster.

    Can a blended body-wing design with current engine provide faster cruising speed ?