F-35 Program - General Discussion

[Stampede]

It should really be a tic-tok strategy a small upgrade, followed up a much larger one. The ticks and the tocks can be separate programs.

While there are some 6th gen fighter programs being thrown around, there aren't any cheap 6th gen fighter programs AFAIK. The F-35 is likely to have a long life span, and should have a series of upgrades in a pipeline. There are what? 1000 F-35's currently flying around, that is already a huge fleet.

Money should be provided for both programs, the priority can be PW for low risk and the easiest upgrade for the existing fleet. If they want to keep selling F-35 going forward, they will need to incorporate newer technologies and capabilities.

Increasing the flight endurance of the F-35 would be a great way to lower cost per flight hour and get more hours out of the fleet.

Ultimately I think while you may be right, this PW thinking is flawed. China doesn't care about GE or PW. In the Pacific the F-35 is short ranged, all western fighters are. Carriers alone is not enough to fight China. In 10 years China will be approaching or matching US carrier capabilities in the Pacific. USS Ford sitting 200km off the Chinese coast isn't a threat, its a target.

The US is locked in competition with China. China isn't the soviet union, they have an economy, they have technologies and they a spending big money. They aren't on the other side of the iron curtain either, so the US MUST keep developing its technological edge.

Coasting is no longer a strategy for the US industrial complex. They are being outproduced for the first time, basically ever. The US has a technological edge, but its eroding and the quantitively edge is disappearing very fast.

The F-35 Market is a big one, it has sold well, everyone is on the band wagon. Failing to continue to develop this aircraft would be pretty much a collapse of allied airpower.

Quote of the day

"USS Ford sitting 200km off the Chinese coast isn't a threat, its a target."

It's interesting when a military asset / capability becomes a liability.

Don't get me wrong carriers have a place.
But like all bits of kit, including the F35, it's the "when and where" that you employ it that is important to remember.

"USS Ford sitting 200km off the Chinese coast isn't a threat, its a target."............................................Brilliant!



Cheers S

 

[John Fedup]

A history lesson on why engine competition is a good thing. It certainly worked for 4th Gen fighters. Jet engine technology is a big advantage for US aerospace and losing the lead in this critical technology would be a disaster. AETP must eventually be available for the F-35 (A and C at least).

Air Force Risks Sub-Optimizing Fighter Engines—Again

Retired Col. Leonard "Lucky" Ekman provides a history on fighter engines development and lessons for the Air Force moving forward.

www.airandspaceforces.com

 

[StingrayOZ]

It's interesting when a military asset / capability becomes a liability.

Don't get me wrong carriers have a place.
But like all bits of kit, including the F35, it's the "when and where" that you employ it that is important to remember.

Its been a while since the US has had a truly capable foe.

In the Chinese, in waters around China, the US truly do have a peer. Today. And they manufacture like hard working westerners, not broken communist soviets.

In 5 years, they will have increased their lead, nearly matching US power projecting in the whole of the Pacific/Indian oceans.

To most countries, a US carrier would be very intimidating, that is no longer the case with China.

 

[John Fedup]

The Pentagon won’t accept new F-35s until software issues for TR-3 are worked out. LM expects this to happen sometime later this year. Once this happens, one has to wonder how many F135 engines will be trashed early due to the increased power requirements for TR-3 along with block 4 software as the F135 ECU is years away.

Software problems will cut F-35 deliveries this year, Lockheed says

The delays will cost the company about $7 million per jet.

www.defenseone.com

 

[StingrayOZ]

The Pentagon won’t accept new F-35s until software issues for TR-3 are worked out. LM expects this to happen sometime later this year. Once this happens, one has to wonder how many F135 engines will be trashed early due to the increased power requirements for TR-3 along with block 4 software as the F135 ECU is years away.

Highlighting how perhaps having one exclusive engine is perhaps not ideal. Two parallel developments really should be going on. One being the ECU and the other being AETP.

It will be a huge job to ECU existing in storage aircraft, and then roll it out to existing flying aircraft.

 

[John Fedup]

Highlighting how perhaps having one exclusive engine is perhaps not ideal. Two parallel developments really should be going on. One being the ECU and the other being AETP.

It will be a huge job to ECU existing in storage aircraft, and then roll it out to existing flying aircraft.

Agree, two vendors keeps the industrial base busy and competition is good. Having two companies investing in making their engines better, what’s not to like? The teen series jets saw both GE and P&W engines (F-14, F-15 and F-16). The F-18 I believe is GE only.

 

[John Fedup]

Some more controversy over the F135 cooling system with Honeywell claiming they are at a disadvantage due to Collins being part of the same company (RTX) that owns P&W, perhaps they should partner with GE and push for their AETP engine.

Race for new F-35 cooling system heats up, as DoD won't rule out competition - Breaking Defense

A Honeywell Aerospace executive suggested Pratt & Whitney is improperly coordinating with fellow RTX subsidiary Collins Aerospace on modernization efforts for the F-35, but a Pratt VP denied the charge.

breakingdefense.com

 

[John Fedup]

The delay for TR3 is now extended to June/24. The previous delivery date was Dec/23. A shame America produces excess lawyers and accountants instead of hardware/software engineers. Chinese spies are impatiently awaiting completion.

Air Force frets as Lockheed announced another delay for new-tech F-35

The first F-35 with a new tech package might not arrive until June, Lockheed now says.

www.defenseone.com

 

[John Fedup]

Another F-35 loss after a pilot had to eject. No recovery yet and the jet is believed to likely be in a South Carolina lake. The pilot is in a hospital.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/17/us/south-carolina-fighter-jet-pilot-ejects

 

[John Fedup]

The F-35B crash site has been found. It crashed on land not in a lake as initially suspected. Probably should have posted in the USN/USMC F-35 thread.

USMC Finds Missing F-35B Amid Aviation Safety Standdown | Aviation Week Network

The roughly 28-hr. search for the Lockheed Martin-made stealth fighter included an unusual request to the public for any tips.

aviationweek.com

 

[ngatimozart]

Another F-35 loss after a pilot had to eject. No recovery yet and the jet is believed to likely be in a South Carolina lake. The pilot is in a hospital.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/17/us/south-carolina-fighter-jet-pilot-ejects

Lots of memes doing the rounds on this crash.

 

[John Fedup]

This article highlights the problem of sales success wrt the F-35. Production capacity is falling behind due to strong demand. Also, there is the block 4 and ECU issues still to be sorted. Some good points about the risks to vendors expanding production. Best line, “How many parts do you need to build a plane….all of them”.

Countries keep buying the F-35. Can Lockheed keep up with production demands? - Breaking Defense

Strong demand for the Joint Strike Fighter means a production crunch is lurking, a top US Air Force general tells Breaking Defense. But expanding production could be risky business for industry.

breakingdefense.com

 

[John Fedup]

This the latest idea to get TR-3 F-35 versions operating, a partial software upgrade with the full block 4 software coming later. However there is no mention of the F135 engine upgrade to address power and cooling requirements.

Upgraded F-35s fly with partial software as DOD hunts for delivery fix

The first TR-3 F-35's initial checkout flight comes as the Joint Program Office hunts for a way to accelerate deliveries, perhaps using interim software.

www.defensenews.com

 

[John Fedup]

As if Block 4 delays were not enough, a lawsuit against LM’s titanium supplier over pricing. Haven’t followed titanium prices but am inclined to believe the subcontractor version given most titanium comes from Russia which I assume can’t export to the US anymore.

Lawsuit could further delay F-35 deliveries

Lockheed is suing a key supplier of titanium structural parts.

www.defenseone.com

 

[south]

Australia and UK back on the frontline of F-35 operational test.

A result that is beneficial for all aspects of F-35 - due to the additional resources this brings.

 

[John Fedup]

A short piece about support (latest mission data files) for Israeli F-35s and how their readiness levels are very good. WRT the latter, must be lots of spares available from the fleet of undelivered USAF F-35s.

US rushed new F-35 capabilities to Israel after Hamas attack - Defense One

 

[Redlands18]

Quite a good video, busting some myths that still exist about the F-35. 1000 aircraft delivered to17 nations and you still get people claiming its a lemon.

 

[numairsohail]

super explanation.

 

[John Fedup]

Apologies if this has been posted before but this video by Hazard Lee and Billy Flynn describes a significant advance most of us non-fighter pilot blokes would not be aware of. The video is a tad long.

 

[Redlands18]

Major Arms Sales | Defense Security Cooperation Agency (dsca.mil)
You have to laugh.
Erdogan must be really loving this, Türkiye, banned from buying the F-35 has asked the US for 40 F-16s while their very close friends Greece, has been cleared to buy 40 F-35As.