F-35 Program - General Discussion

Boagrius

Well-Known Member
It appears the US has put the brakes on Turkish F35 acquisition:

President Donald Trump has signed into law a defense policy bill that will hold up the transfer to Turkey of 100 F-35 fighter jets, deepening a rift between the two countries over the ongoing imprisonment of an American pastor in Turkey.

The move amounts to a sharp blow to Ankara, which is already reeling from Trump’s decision last week to double down on tariffs on Turkish aluminum and steel. Turkey planned to take possession of the jets over the next decade, which would make it the third-largest operator of F-35s in the world.

But its cancellation will also complicate matters for the United States. Several key components of the jet are manufactured by Turkish companies, and the U.S. Defense Department estimates it will take two years to find and qualify new suppliers to replace any Turkish firms that are kicked out of the program. Meanwhile, the main European hub for the F-35’s engine repair and overhaul is in Eskisehir, in northwestern Turkey.
Trump Blocks Fighter Jet Transfer Amid Deepening U.S.-Turkey Rift

Interesting development. As an Aussie I can't say I'm displeased by it given Turkey's recent... trajectory.
 
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It appears the US has put the brakes on Turkish F35 acquisition:



Trump Blocks Fighter Jet Transfer Amid Deepening U.S.-Turkey Rift

Interesting development. As an Aussie I can't say I'm displease by it given Turkey's recent... trajectory.
This has the potential to put a major "kink" into F-35 production, Turkey has been a valuable and steadfast member of NATO, and F-35 partner,,, they, as well as Northrup manufacture the center fuselage, as well as other major assemblies. So this a bad, bad, bad, on every level.... President Erdogan has been playing "hardball" from the beginning, taking Turkey further and further out of the US orbit. That was allowed to slide under President's Bush and Obama, I mean honestly, its put us in a very difficult position.

His decision to purchase the S-400 from Russia is really the straw that broke the camels back, imprisoning a Christian Pastor, a US citizen is a "spit in the face"! The US refusal to extradite an exiled cleric, whom has sought sanctuary in the US, seems to be fueling much of this?

It would be absolute foolishness to allow the F-35 to operate on a daily basis over the S-400, to do so would put every F-35 partner at risk!
 
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John Fedup

The Bunker Group
I would question how valuable and steadfast they have been for sometime now. Erdogan is taking Turkey away from secular government down an apparently similar "religion of peace" or else path. I absolutely am against any such government having the F-35, regardless of whether it gives up the S-400 or not. The work they have can be transferred to Japan, Korea, and other non-partner customers.
 
I would question how valuable and steadfast they have been for sometime now. Erdogan is taking Turkey away from secular government down an apparently similar "religion of peace" or else path. I absolutely am against any such government having the F-35, regardless of whether it gives up the S-400 or not. The work they have can be transferred to Japan, Korea, and other non-partner customers.
For the record John, my Dad spent some time in Turkey sleeping in tents when he was still flying the C-119, 60+ years ago, Turkey has been a long time US friend..

There is no way to estimate the damage this will cause the F-35 program and partners, who I know will be anxious to "take up the slack", and they will be able to do so. This will however affect production and supply chains for years and years to come, LockMart recently delivered the 300th F-35 to the USAF....

The F-35 program is just starting to get to a very good place if you get my drift, no doubt throwing a monkey wrench in the very slik process going at present, will hearten all the bad guys..

The ramifications are far, far, beyond the F-35 program, that's simply a microcosm of the whole process....

I do concur that we need to take action, the sooner the better, but my word?
 

Boagrius

Well-Known Member
^Pick your poison I guess. Risk the disruption or risk giving the Russians a chance to tune S400 et al to the F35's signature data. God knows what else you could be contending with if an F35 equipped Turkey went to hell in a hand basket. Neither is very pleasant but I know which one I prefer...
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
For the record John, my Dad spent some time in Turkey sleeping in tents when he was still flying the C-119, 60+ years ago, Turkey has been a long time US friend.
Sixty plus years ago they were a friend and the cold war was still underway and Turkey's geographic position indeed made it an important ally but things have changed (and still are). The cold war ended although this might change yet again but Turkey's political situation has been sliding for years now. Turkey would not have been invited to the JSF party had Erdogan been in charge at the start. Selling state-of-the-art military kit in this region will bite you in the a$$ sooner or later (think F-14 Tomcats in the 1970s). Sell all the 4th gen fighters you want but F-35s to Turkey , Saudi Arabia, and most of the Gulf States, forget it. That's just another Tomcat repeat waiting to happen.

There is no way to estimate the damage this will cause the F-35 program and partners, who I know will be anxious to "take up the slack", and they will be able to do so. This will however affect production and supply chains for years and years to come, LockMart recently delivered the 300th F-35 to the USAF....
I do not know what percentage of F-35 components Turkey is responsible for but I don't think it would be much more than Canada's. LM used to make gentle threats about how Canada's workshare for the F-35 could be lost if Canada didn't proceed with a purchase. This hasn't happened likely because Boeing shot themselves in the foot and the F-35 is back on the tender list for our fighter replacement program. Perhaps your idea the supply chain can't easily be switched is the real reason, I don't know. Frankly, I doubt it for the simple reason this program is so important to the US military that there must be a backup plan for just such contingencies.

The F-35 program is just starting to get to a very good place if you get my drift, no doubt throwing a monkey wrench in the very slik process going at present, will hearten all the bad guys..
Yes the program is in a good place now and it will stay that way regardless of what develops with Turkey. The economic power and technology of non-partners Japan and S. Korea dwarfs Turkey and Singapore may become a customer as well. Meanwhile if Erogan continues his low interest rate policies the lira isn't going to buy many F-35s anyway
 
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FORBIN

Member
This has the potential to put a major "kink" into F-35 production, Turkey has been a valuable and steadfast member of NATO, and F-35 partner,,, they, as well as Northrup manufacture the center fuselage, as well as other major assemblies. So this a bad, bad, bad, on every level.... President Erdogan has been playing "hardball" from the beginning, taking Turkey further and further out of the US orbit. That was allowed to slide under President's Bush and Obama, I mean honestly, its put us in a very difficult position.

His decision to purchase the S-400 from Russia is really the straw that broke the camels back, imprisoning a Christian Pastor, a US citizen is a "spit in the face"! The US refusal to extradite an exiled cleric, whom has sought sanctuary in the US, seems to be fueling much of this?

It would be absolute foolishness to allow the F-35 to operate on a daily basis over the S-400, to do so would put every F-35 partner at risk!
And justely with GBU-49 Block 3F* a true Wild Weasel this boy :) he have for soon and yet tested especialy able vs TELs and the more dangerous SAMs S-300s the 2 last variants and S-400 150 - 400 km and they can deal with 6 - 72 targets simult engaged !
You have here and job is of 1st class !
Patriot SAM system description booklet by Molnibalage

Also the 4th S-400 missile the best is only in service in Russian AF since this year and right now coz recent production and Almaz Antey The specialist for SAMs and sonce very long time need time but the member confirm my opinion especialy China Don't going to have this variant with it from the coast all Taiwanese birds which take off can be theroricaly destroyed it is a SAM interdiction in fact !
Why the F-35?: F-35 v. S-400
American Innovation: Implications of the Potential Russia-China Arms Deal

Only solution for no stealth use LACM LR as AGM-158, SCALP-EG etc...

3 others stealth don't have such weapons GPS only for F-22 and J-20 maybe LGB and GPS for Su-57 in more the 2 lasts are less stealth and good to deal with S-400 the match remains very difficult even for US ofc.
 
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King Wally

Active Member
You just make the case clear with Turkey... you can't own both the S-400 and the F35. And let Turkey decide.

It's not the US dropping Turkey from the program really it's Turkey CHOOSING to kick themselves out if they go ahead with the Russian air defence system. Aust/Japan/South Korea would snap up that manufacture workload in a second I'm sure.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Turkey's great and glorious leader, father of the nation, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who's wisdom and knowledge has no peer, is guiding his children, the Turkish peoples, along his most illustrious and enlightened path for the greater glory and future of Turkey and the Turkish peoples. [Sarcasm off]

Yes Turkey was a great NATO ally but that was when it was a secular govt with a secular and fair constitution. Now, with Erdogan, it is no longer friendly towards the west, nor has a secular govt with a secular and fair constitution. Erdogan appears to think of himself as one of the great Ottoman rulers and wanting to reinstate the Ottoman empire. I think that after the latest Turkish election the any F-35 related material in Turkish hands must be regarded as a serious security risk. As much as I dislike Trump, his decision to withhold the Turkish F-35s is the only viable one. I think that the Italians for one could pick up the Turkish manufacturing contracts and the Turkish F-35 engine contracts could go to one of the European F-35 operators, such as Italy, UK, Netherlands, etc. Erdogan has made his bed, now he must lie in it.
 

SpazSinbad

Active Member
Great story about Goldstein in an F-16 now astonished by the 'game changer' F-35 FUSION MACHINE which DOES IT ALL! AND.... at 80% readiness for BLOCK 3F Aircraft:
"...Among the newest Block 3F F-35s, [USAF Chief of Staff Gen. David Goldfein] said squadrons are turning in mission capable rates of 80 percent, which is higher than USAF standards and far better than aircraft at this level of maturity. Comparing notes with his counterpart, Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Robert Neller, Goldfein said both are seeing the same readiness levels “at home and deployed.”... 20 Aug 2018 Two Years On, Goldfein Says Operations Show F-35 a Game-Changer
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Great story about Goldstein in an F-16 now astonished by the 'game changer' F-35 FUSION MACHINE which DOES IT ALL! AND.... at 80% readiness for BLOCK 3F Aircraft:
Maybe its time to rename it the E/A/R/F/A-35, the naysayers seemed to have become increasingly quieter these days.
 
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