F-35 Program - General Discussion

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
To try and get around software-associated delays, the F35 test program is being revised: some test points are being eliminated, reducing the total number of test points remaining for Block 2B from 529 down to 243; and some fixes are being deferred to the Block 3 program.

aviationweek.com/defense/jsf-program-ditches-tests-protect-schedule

Skipping and deferring tests that were previously deemed to be necessary translates to a more sloppy and rushed effort to still meet deadlines.

A major operational test series planned for the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter has been abandoned in an attempt to protect the schedule for delivering a fully operational aircraft.

Previously reported improvement in reliability was due to changes in how failures were reported. ie. They started lying in how they reported failures

The Pentagon’s Director of Operational Test and Evaluation also notes that an apparent improvement in a major reliability metric — "mean flight hours between failure – design controllable" — up to late summer 2014 may be due to changes in reporting. More failures were reported as "induced," or due to maintenance actions, and fewer to "inherent" design problems. Also, once a redesigned version of a failure-prone part is introduced into the fleet but before 100% of the fleet has been retrofitted, the program stops counting failures of the previous version, improving the system’s on-paper reliability even though failures are occurring.

One of the F-35’s distinctive features, the Distributed Aperture System, is still problematical, the report says, continuing "to exhibit high false-alarm rates and false target tracks, and poor stability performance, even in later versions of software.
Ever read a newspaper and wonder why it has yesterday's news and not today's?

Same with the DOT&E report. They take reports of issues from the program office, compile them into a 'this is what is wrong' format and present their final report.

What they don't report on is the daily work to address these issues...
 

Boagrius

Well-Known Member
Depends on the country. Saying some of our procurement people our average is being over generous.:(
I guess the real problem is when misinformation gets enough exposure among "average punters" to become a useful political football. I take it this is what has happened in Canada, and even senor Drumpf tried his hand at it recently:

Trump wants to 'fire' F-35

It's all well and good if you're just putting out spot fires - so to speak - but you surely don't want wanton idiocy getting traction in the electorate on important issues like this either.

EDIT: Not to mention this sort of thing:

http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/...-usaf-chief-welsh--10-effectiveness/81267406/
 
Last edited:

jack412

Active Member
all of those things have been addressed on here

and if you're going to quote aviation week where Bill Sweetman is a known and irrational anti-JSF objector - then you might as well start quoting David Axe under the title of the worlds best aeronautical engineer....
If anyone wants to quote Bill, they had better get in quick. He is leaving AW on the 18th and going to NG as a, I think he uses the term, Shill.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
If anyone wants to quote Bill, they had better get in quick. He is leaving AW on the 18th and going to NG as a, I think he uses the term, Shill.

I've really enjoyed working with NG and various staff over the years on various projects and programs.....

Have to say that I now have a doubt as to the integrity of the exec when they employ someone like Sweetman.

To say I'm disappointed would be an understatement
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I've really enjoyed working with NG and various staff over the years on various projects and programs.....

Have to say that I now have a doubt as to the integrity of the exec when they employ someone like Sweetman.

To say I'm disappointed would be an understatement
Maybe they just want to ITAR him out of the industry. If you bring someone inhouse and clear them to look at certain stuff, even if they never look at it they will be treated as if they have and will never be able to work for certain competitors, on particular JVs, or to discuss certain matters ever again. You can use it to tie up someone so badly they can never work in the industry or discuss the industry with anyone, anywhere at all.
 

jack412

Active Member
It may only get better, perhaps they will put Sprey as head designer and APA&Co as the board of directors?
 

Boagrius

Well-Known Member
It may only get better, perhaps they will put Sprey as head designer and APA&Co as the board of directors?
Nah, they would never get along. Kopp et al. would try to turn it into an uber-F111 (the REAL bombtruck... amirite?), while Pierre would want it to be a super-maneuverable, radarless dogfighter sporting a pair of 'winders on each wingtip.

Actually I would pay good money to be a fly on the wall in that situation...

:eek:nfloorl:
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Nah, they would never get along. Kopp et al. would try to turn it into an uber-F111 (the REAL bombtruck... amirite?), while Pierre would want it to be a super-maneuverable, radarless dogfighter sporting a pair of 'winders on each wingtip.

Actually I would pay good money to be a fly on the wall in that situation...

:eek:nfloorl:
It makes you wound what Sprey's ideal modern infantryman would be, a whippet thin distance runner in a Grecian kilt, armed with a titanium short sword and tattooed camouflage to save weight perhaps? There definitely wouldn't be body armour, night vision, accessories rifle or carbine, it would be his version of a modern naked Spartan.
 

Boagrius

Well-Known Member
It makes you wound what Sprey's ideal modern infantryman would be, a whippet thin distance runner in a Grecian kilt, armed with a titanium short sword and tattooed camouflage to save weight perhaps? There definitely wouldn't be body armour, night vision, accessories rifle or carbine, it would be his version of a modern naked Spartan.
I think you're onto something. Now just replace the Navy with hundreds of machine gun toting speed boats and you're set! ;)
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Am a lifetime member of the USNI - as such I get a regular subscription to its Proceedings mag.

An article on JSF by a long term test pilot is in this months edition. Worth looking at as it discusses networking, fighting and the changes to OODA

Proceedings Magazine | U.S. Naval Institute
It's a real shame that informative articles like this never seem to make it to main stream media. Surely this is something the LM marketing team should be addressing. Don't know if it would sway the ignorant here but it couldn't hurt.
 

SpazSinbad

Active Member
Last edited:
It's a real shame that informative articles like this never seem to make it to main stream media. Surely this is something the LM marketing team should be addressing. Don't know if it would sway the ignorant here but it couldn't hurt.
Why should LM devote additional resources to sell it''s product to Canada? Those at a government level would no doubt receive far more information than what is made in publications available to the public. Particularly when Canada is a level three partner!
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Why should LM devote additional resources to sell it''s product to Canada? Those at a government level would no doubt receive far more information than what is made in publications available to the public. Particularly when Canada is a level three partner!
The government people (DND and PWC) know what's what. No matter, it's the pollies who call the shots and they swing with public opinion for the most part. The anti-F-35 crowd has really done a hatchet job on the F-35 so it is really the court of public opinion that LM needs to work on IMO.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The anti-F-35 crowd has really done a hatchet job on the F-35 so it is really the court of public opinion that LM needs to work on IMO.
if you're going ti be influenced by public opinion to undertake force development then you're beyond stuffed.

I'd suggest that your DoD end amp it up - point in case, whenever politicians who've been opposed to JSF and Submarines in Oz have been shown the classified briefs on performance and logic behind the need, they quietly form up behind the need to get them

the only ones who don't understand real world needs for a strong and effective military are the greens, they still believe that sitting around a campfire and holding hands will also work with Daesh
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
the only ones who don't understand real world needs for a strong and effective military are the greens, they still believe that sitting around a campfire and holding hands will also work with Daesh
In Canada it's not only the Greens, it's the Liberals and the NDP who are at the kumbayah campfire as well. The Liberals should have had enough time by now to understand why the F-35 is the best solution but I don't see any acknowledgement of this reality by them to date.
 
The anti-F-35 crowd has really done a hatchet job on the F-35 so it is really the court of public opinion that LM needs to work on IMO.
I beg to differ John. It's up to the Canadian Government to justify to Lockheed Martin why it should continue to benefit from work share on the F-35 program given it's anti F-35 stance. Trying to blame the electorates mood towards the F-35 on LM marketing is far from adequate.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
I beg to differ John. It's up to the Canadian Government to justify to Lockheed Martin why it should continue to benefit from work share on the F-35 program given it's anti F-35 stance. Trying to blame the electorates mood towards the F-35 on LM marketing is far from adequate.
Both the JSF program office and LM have been lame in their response to work share. No order then no work share is the message they need to send. As for the electoral mood, the anti-F35 voices have been effective in creating the negative attitude about the jet and there is no counter to this verbal diarrhea.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I beg to differ John. It's up to the Canadian Government to justify to Lockheed Martin why it should continue to benefit from work share on the F-35 program given it's anti F-35 stance. Trying to blame the electorates mood towards the F-35 on LM marketing is far from adequate.
At some point there will be existing buyers who will raise the issues with LMA about getting approp work share given that the canadians are disinterested.

I would expect that the asian countries in particular will tie the issue of volume buys against workshare.

It would not be seen as unreasonable given that a lot of countries have integrated workshare into their existing contracts as an offset medium for local industry
 
Top