F-35 Multirole Joint Strike Fighter

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ROCK45 said:
I found this article and had no idea that LM was planning or even capable of producing so many jets per year. Sorry if this was posted before I didn't see it in the few pages I went through. I was just blown away by the scale and size of the production line and by how complex it is. It's a long articel so I'll only posts the link but well worth reading.

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2008/July/F-35fact.htm
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Well thats great news for the USAF, USN, and USMC. I was also surprised that LM could build that many F-35s in one year. Reminds me of the good old days when LM was building lots of F-16s every month. This is much better than building only 20 F-22s per year.
 
This is the same Fort Worth plant that built F-111s, and F-16s. if you Google Earth or Map it, you'll see the plant is a mile long, on the west side of once was called Carswell AFB, now its the Joint Reserve Base. On the east side you can see F/A-18s parked, along with other aircraft. The Dallas Fort Worth area has many airline pilots living in the area, quite a few are pilots for the Reserves.
 
F-15 Eagle said:
Well thats great news for the USAF, USN, and USMC. I was also surprised that LM could build that many F-35s in one year. Reminds me of the good old days when LM was building lots of F-16s every month. This is much better than building only 20 F-22s per year.
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People need to remember this when threads spin out of control saying absurdities like swarms of Flankers, IADS or PLAAF hoards will outnumber the U.S. Military in the air to such an extent that a war over Taiwan and it's result is a forgone conclusion.

-DA
 
Orders

I wanted to get ask if this is really true that there are no early orders in for the F-35? I was confused when I saw this and wanted get other peoples take on this? Thanks

Quote
Rising costs and no early non-U.S. orders in quantity for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF). From an article in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.

-"Nobody is interested in getting their airplanes earlier unless we can help them mitigate the fact the earlier airplanes cost more," Tom Burbage, Lockheed executive vice president and F-35 program general manager, said in a recent interview.-
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Link
http://elpwarpigs.blogspot.com/2007/12/f-35-orders.html
 
ROCK45 said:
I wanted to get ask if this is really true that there are no early orders in for the F-35? I was confused when I saw this and wanted get other peoples take on this? Thanks



Link
http://elpwarpigs.blogspot.com/2007/12/f-35-orders.html
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And if you quote that guy, you will continue to receive outdated or just plain wrong information.

He is a "hater" and against pretty much everything he can apparently see from his lofty tower...
 
Date

Thanks DA
I bookmark a few military Blogs and scan through them every now and will pay closer attention to the dates from now on, good catch thanks.

I'm still amazed with the production totals that's some feat and I see your point one year of solid running produces more F-35s then there are advance Flankers. In under three years time most of NATO could in theory at least have 5th generation fighters in some stage of training. That's production power plain and simple.

I think in five to eight years time new lines of small compact nasty stealth weapons with good standoff ranges will be built, but time will tell.
 
ROCK45 said:
Thanks DA
I bookmark a few military Blogs and scan through them every now and will pay closer attention to the dates from now on, good catch thanks.

I'm still amazed with the production totals that's some feat and I see your point one year of solid running produces more F-35s then there are advance Flankers. In under three years time most of NATO could in theory at least have 5th generation fighters in some stage of training. That's production power plain and simple.

I think in five to eight years time new lines of small compact nasty stealth weapons with good standoff ranges will be built, but time will tell.
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I don't want to sound dramatic but it is the way of the sword and shield. As long as men fight wars, there will always be moves and countermoves. When one particular method of combat dominates so thoroughly and is possessed by one side. The other side will more often than not abandon that method or alter it enough to have a way to fight back. If not then it will be destroyed.

The F-35 does have a lot of advantages but does carry with it fundamental limitations imposed by the geography over which it was designed to fight and the physiology of men who have to fight it. This will not be an issue against most opponents through the F-35s operational life. But there will be those who find ways to exploit the limitations and those exploits will define the F-35's successor. I can't accurately see 25 years into the future to say with any certainty how things will turn out. But the present and near future give some indications when you look at the wars we are fighting today and have fought as far back as 1991.

Against those who choose to remain with traditional air defenses and maneuver warfare tactics though the F-35 is going to slaughter them so long as the resources available to opponents stays behind. In otherwords our enemies typically...


  • Are outnumbered
  • Are outdated
  • Lack the quality of trained personnel
Can a Flanker nation buy 200+ F-35s a year? No.
Can a traditional IADS effectively track and target aircraft that use F-35 like technology effectively at the system level? No.
Are the training standards competitive? No.

So as you can see, PAK-FA, Su-27s, J-xx and whatever else are born losers through the F-35 service life. The real threats will come from WMD, Special Operations/Terrorist, Cyberwarfare, Submarines and things like that where they have better chances of waging offensive warfare. Especially through the integration of advanced COT with their operations. That is having the same effect on them as GPS tech did to MK82 or Stealth Tech did for combat planes.

-DA
 
DarthAmerica said:
People need to remember this when threads spin out of control saying absurdities like swarms of Flankers, IADS or PLAAF hoards will outnumber the U.S. Military in the air to such an extent that a war over Taiwan and it's result is a forgone conclusion.

-DA
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I don't think I ever said anything about the U.S. military being outnumbered....

I was only talking about how I was surprised to see LM will build that many F-35s in one year alone.
 
F-15 Eagle said:
I don't think I ever said anything about the U.S. military being outnumbered....

I was only talking about how I was surprised to see LM will build that many F-35s in one year alone.
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It was more of a general comment and not directed at you in particular.

-DA
 
Interesting analysis of F-35 in Russian:

http://www.avia.ru/press/13366/

google translated:
These outcomes indicate that the Su-35 fighter has a vast superiority over its rival. With better mobility characteristics, he 2,55-3,39 times more frequently accessed the conditions for the use of missile weapons, and 3,54-5,24 times more often these attacks ended defeat the goal. The probability of success for the F-35 completion of the fight with Su-35 does not exceed 0,21-0,28.

The most effective in air combat fighter showed deck F-35C, thanks to substantially lower unit load on the wing.
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My understanding is that he is doing a highly artificial and unrealistic comparison based on WVR scenarios; although later in the article he does concede that stealth and networking is important but claims that this does not help the export customer which he claims will have limited access to such goodies...

I found his conclusion interesting:

At a time when the U.S. Army and expanding bloc NATO rearming heavily, creating a global system of danger to the world, our Air Force are more like a museum morally and physically obsolete aviation technology. Deliveries of 'new' (the development of the early 1980's) military equipment (Su-34, Mi-28, Ka-50) reminded the purchase of certain exhibits to the Museum in an exhibit entitled 'Recent development of the Soviet military-industrial complex'. The next stage is a permanent reform of the Armed Forces of Russia may become a museum exhibit and professional staffing Russian officer.
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Comments from the experts? Does this Russian analyst have some points or is it all nonsense?


V
 
Of course the Russians will say their SU-35 is better than the F-35 its hardly surprising.:rolleyes:

Admin. Text deleted. Opinion without fact leads to flame wars in posts like these.
Any claims are subject to actual data - and the fact that no actual data is in the public domain means that all sides need to settle down on their claims of superiority.

Empirical claims are a bit risky under these circumstances
 
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[ame="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=h1nAaicgf2s&feature=related"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=h1nAaicgf2s&feature=related[/ame]

A recent Australian report on the F35's supposed ''inferiority''. I'm not too convinced at this stage in the a/c's development
 
citizen578 said:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=h1nAaicgf2s&feature=related

A recent Australian report on the F35's supposed ''inferiority''. I'm not too convinced at this stage in the a/c's development
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The results from the Rand study has been debunked on numerous occations on this and other forums. The only relevant and useful information in the above youtube video is the last 30 secs (interview with Andrew Davies).

Citizen578, search on this forum on the Rand study and the infamous clubbing of baby seals and you'll find all the arguments debunking the Rand study are already there.


V
 
Vivendi said:
Interesting analysis of F-35 in Russian:

http://www.avia.ru/press/13366/

google translated:


My understanding is that he is doing a highly artificial and unrealistic comparison based on WVR scenarios; although later in the article he does concede that stealth and networking is important but claims that this does not help the export customer which he claims will have limited access to such goodies...

I found his conclusion interesting:


Comments from the experts? Does this Russian analyst have some points or is it all nonsense?


V
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I don't think i need to comment on how unrealistic the above analysis presented is, but i will anyway. The F-35A will be quite able to engage an SU-35 from well outside the counter detection footprint,(and miles outside of the Flankers track radius), even with an uber PESA like Irbis, add to that long range EA capability and the BVR scenario doesn't look good.

As for the claim that "mobility" lead to the F-35 being defeated more often than not, that fundamentally misunderstands the nature of contemporary WVR engagements. Much like the BVR regime contemporary "dogfights" are dominated by sensor missile combinations, HOBS heaters with HMCS have practically eliminated the need to turn faster than the other guy, and with EODAS and LOAL capable WVR weapons systems the F-35 will literally not have to maneuver in order to engage the threat, i.e. 360 degree engagement envelope. Thus claiming that superior "mobility" will overcome significantly more capable sensor missile combinations and insurmountable information dominance reeks of marketing or fanboy hype to me.
 
citizen578 said:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=h1nAaicgf2s&feature=related

A recent Australian report on the F35's supposed ''inferiority''. I'm not too convinced at this stage in the a/c's development
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Not too convinced of what?

The basic performance parameters of the aircraft are known.

The fact that it IS one of only 2 VLO fighters in the world is known.

The fact that it WILL be cheap, due to economies of scale if nothing else, IS known.

What else doesn't convince you?
 
Aussie Digger said:
The basic performance parameters of the aircraft are known.
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So, what's the RCS?
Aussie Digger said:
The fact that it WILL be cheap, due to economies of scale if nothing else, IS known.
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Define cheap:

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3823104&c=FEA&s=CVS
In September, U.S. program officials gave rough price and availability data to their Israeli counterparts, who reacted with sticker shock to the price tag of $200 million per plane. Since then, both sides have been seeking a new configuration that can meet Israel Air Force performance and budget requirements.
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