F-35 Multirole Joint Strike Fighter

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StobieWan

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It'll be the next platform they're bitching about is all - anyone with a reasonable memory can cast their minds back to the F15 (too large, too heavy, far too complex, incredibly unreliable, no way would it thrive...uh...hmm...)

Sprey as I recall, was one of those very wise talking heads for GW1, stating that all this complicated stuff would collapse under real world conditions. Oddly, it worked.

We'll see - B is starting to look pretty damn solid after a shaky period of probation and while I admit I'd rather have seen C + E2's, we don't have the money.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Sprey as I recall, was one of those very wise talking heads for GW1, stating that all this complicated stuff would collapse under real world conditions. Oddly, it worked
IIRC every one of the talking heads they rolled out to comment on GW1 got it wrong - in fact they fell for the same feint as the Iraqis (remember the Marines sitting off the beach :))

We'll see - B is starting to look pretty damn solid after a shaky period of probation and while I admit I'd rather have seen C + E2's, we don't have the money.
At the end of the day all progs will hit hurdles - and this program has had some daft project management constructs initially put in place which didn't help - but no other program has ever been built to this scale and level of co-partnering and development. Mistakes were bound to happen. The issue always is how problems are identified and fixed - and if anyone thinks that traditional procurement would have done it any better, then they need to go back and look at the history of non wartime developed platforms

Everyone is on a tight budget and bang for buck is paramount. Unfort the thought processes in a lot of the debates focus only on the platform as a single fighting entity and pay no or minimal heed to that systems warfighting issue - and that the capacity to deter, deceive, defeat has jumped exponentially. To continue the "unfort" line - it means that the hysteria usually revolves around benching capability around the usual milestones of speed, AOA, ferry range (not to be confused with combat loaded range) etc....

it just drives me mad at the simplicity of the naysayers desperate to validate their prejudices.

still, not much you can do. some idiots still subscrtibe to million man army philosophies.
 

RobWilliams

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Does anyone have any reliable links/info in regards to the stopping distance whilst doing SRVL as i've heard a few rumours that the distance is so great that - for the UK - you require the length of the deck to stop in optimal conditions.

Also, what's the potential of using SRVL in higher sea states? Seems like that sort of maneuver could be pretty dangerous in higher states with the deck pitching and rolling soaking wet.
 

colay

New Member
Does anyone have any reliable links/info in regards to the stopping distance whilst doing SRVL as i've heard a few rumours that the distance is so great that - for the UK - you require the length of the deck to stop in optimal conditions.

Also, what's the potential of using SRVL in higher sea states? Seems like that sort of maneuver could be pretty dangerous in higher states with the deck pitching and rolling soaking wet.

I wonder if SRVL testing is in the cards for the next round of F-35B ship-based trials aboard the USS Wasp?

UK to extend rolling carrier landing research for JSF

... An SRVL involves a short take-off and vertical landing aircraft performing a "running landing" on to the carrier flightdeck, using air speed to provide wingborne lift to complement engine thrust. The touchdown position on an axial flightdeck is similar to that of a conventional carrier - about 45m (150ft) from the stern, but no arrestor gear is required, as the aircraft uses its brakes to come to a stop within a distance of 90-150m. The technique could allow an F-35B to recover with an extra 907kg (2,000lb) of weapons and fuel, or reduce propulsion system stress and increase engine life.
 

colay

New Member
It's taken long enough but finally a deal seems at hand. The program is highly visible and controversial so getting the LRIP 5 payment sorted out enables the program to move forward and hopefully set the stage for a less contentious relationship from hereon.

Lockheed Martin, Pentagon Reach F-35 Fighter Deal - Investors.com

...But if the sides manage to ink the deal before the year ends, the dollars allocated won't be subject to the sequestration next year, the massive cuts the military will be forced to make if Washington lawmakers can't reach a budget accord to avert the fiscal cliff.

The deal could also include preliminary funding for a sixth batch of the planes, sources told Reuters...
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
30 Nov 2012 -- Lockheed, DoD reached an agreement in principle on LRIP-5

The agreement covers the manufacture of 32 F-35s of all 3 models, along with support equipment and instrumentation, as follows:

(i) 22 F-35A conventional-takeoff-and-landing variants used by the Air Force;
(ii) 3 F-35B short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL) variants for the Marines; and
(iii) 7 F-35C carrier variants requested by the Navy.​

Another piece of positive news and I would love to see how the clown club spins this.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
A bit more info on the CUDA missile for F-35:

The Aviationist » New (still quite secret) Hit-to-Kill missile for the F-35 unveiled: the Lockheed Martin “Cuda”

Confirmation it's going to use Hit to Kill technology, radar guidance and be sized around SDB size. The rocket motor potentially could take up the majority of the airframe given the HTK nature of the weapon, meaning it can have a useful potential range.

Contemplating a mixed load-out of CUDA and AMRAAM gives some interesting weapons mix possibilities...
 

colay

New Member
A bit more info on the CUDA missile for F-35:

The Aviationist » New (still quite secret) Hit-to-Kill missile for the F-35 unveiled: the Lockheed Martin “Cuda”

Confirmation it's going to use Hit to Kill technology, radar guidance and be sized around SDB size. The rocket motor potentially could take up the majority of the airframe given the HTK nature of the weapon, meaning it can have a useful potential range.

Contemplating a mixed load-out of CUDA and AMRAAM gives some interesting weapons mix possibilities...
The pundits had been mqking a big issue about the F-35 supposedly being handicapped by it's max loadout of 4 x AAMs with any additional missiles hanging under it's wings negating it's VLO advantage. Now, if Cuda materializes, the number increases to 10, all internally mounted. No doubt they will find some other thing they don't like to harp on.
 

Bonza

Super Moderator
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The pundits had been mqking a big issue about the F-35 supposedly being handicapped by it's max loadout of 4 x AAMs with any additional missiles hanging under it's wings negating it's VLO advantage. Now, if Cuda materializes, the number increases to 10, all internally mounted. No doubt they will find some other thing they don't like to harp on.
They already have, look at the comments section of that article, there's already someone running down the new missile's potential range by running down its drag coefficient and diameter, all based on an article with zero bloody specifications in it. APA logic at its best.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The pundits had been mqking a big issue about the F-35 supposedly being handicapped by it's max loadout of 4 x AAMs with any additional missiles hanging under it's wings negating it's VLO advantage. Now, if Cuda materializes, the number increases to 10, all internally mounted. No doubt they will find some other thing they don't like to harp on.
Yep or 8 and 2x AMRAAM to give a good short / medium ranged capability and a longer ranged AAM capability.

The problem with the sorts of opinions about range however is missile design. AMRAAM for instance comprises roughly 1/3rd of it's length as rocket motor, and 2/3rd multi-mode guidance section, warhead and radome section.

AMRAAM is 3.7m in length, meaning it's rocket motor is about 1.23m's long.

A Hit to kill system that has radar only guidance doesn't have to "waste" airframe space with a warhead and additional seeker systems (anti-radiation homing, data-link etc) though, so anywhere up to 2/3rd's of the weapon could potentially compromise the rocket motor.

If we assume CUDA is approximately the same size as SDB (which it would have to be to fit 4 per bay stacked like SDB's) which is about 1.8m in length, the you'd have a rocket motor approximately 1.2m in length, which is undoubtedly why L-M calls this weapon "AMRAAM class..."

It's only an assumption that the diameter of this weapon is the same as SDB so issues of excessive drag etc are a bit premature, although I note that the AIM-154 Phoenix was a 15inch diameter weapon and it didn't have too many issues with range due to drag...
 
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colay

New Member
IMO it's safe to assume that the CUDA motor will be at least as advanced as the one on the -120D which is reported to offer a 50% range improvement over the C7 which in turn offered a range increase over the C5 that flew farther than what came before. The new missile will just enhance the F-35's lethal advantage advantage of "first look, first shot" conferred by its VLO and SA attributes.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
IMO it's safe to assume that the CUDA motor will be at least as advanced as the one on the -120D which is reported to offer a 50% range improvement over the C7 which in turn offered a range increase over the C5 that flew farther than what came before. The new missile will just enhance the F-35's lethal advantage advantage of "first look, first shot" conferred by its VLO and SA attributes.
Yep plus the whole point of building a VLO fighter is to reduce the range at which it can be detected, tracked and engaged, which applies equally in the air to air arena as it does in the surface to air arena, a point often overlooked by Clown Club types.

A shorter ranged weapon isn't as big a handicap for an aircraft that can get closer to threats before it has to fire...

Whatever the capability of this weapon, the AMRAAM-D is going to be the primary air to air weapon for the F-35 for most users (some may opt for Meteor) and both weapons have plenty of range...
 

RobWilliams

Super Moderator
Staff member
Nice bit of news about the F35C

US Navy

The US Navy's second F-35C Lightning II carrier variant test aircraft has completed initial pit drop testing at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland, US, marking successful conclusion of ground weapons ejection test series for the variant.

During the testing, inert GBU-31 joint direct attack munitions (JDAM) and GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bombs were dropped by the second Lockheed Martin-built F-35C test aircraft, marked as CF-2, from the two weapon bays onto a foam-covered pit floor.

The CF-2 team ejected 11 bombs, including the AIM-120 advanced medium-range air-to-air missile (AMRAAM) during the pit-drop testing, validating the aircraft's capability.
Coming along nicely, will not stop the usual crowd hissing and spitting at the thing though.
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Nice bit of news about the F35C

US Navy



Coming along nicely, will not stop the usual crowd hissing and spitting at the thing though.
Nice, have also read that the C had also completed 83 out of 83 hook traps as well, so the hook change and damper settings look like they have done the job :)
 

colay

New Member
Nice, have also read that the C had also completed 83 out of 83 hook traps as well, so the hook change and damper settings look like they have done the job :)
Interesting, I'm assuming those would be rolling arrestments. Can you post a link?
As far as actual fly-in traps, LM reported 5 successful arrestments out of 8 attempts last August.
 

RobWilliams

Super Moderator
Staff member
Lexington Institute

. . .Nonetheless, steady progress is being made in correcting lags noted in the performance of the helmet that could detract from its performance. In the case of the tailhook required so that the naval variant of F-35 can land safely on carriers at sea, redesign enabled the tailhook to successfully grab onto arresting cables in 83 out of 83 tests, effectively resolving any concerns about the hook's operational performance.
Not being familiar with the Lexington Institute and the nature of what the F35 does to people, i'm not sure how accurate it is.

EDIT: Should point out that when this report was sourced on defense-aerospace.com it came with the following editors note

Outlook for F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Brightens

(EDITOR’S NOTE: Neither the JSF Program Office nor Lockheed have released any information on the outcome of the carrier hook trials, and claims of improvements in helmet performance have all come from Lockheed executives, without any official confirmation. Senator McCain’s comments are, frankly, an embarrassment given the flimsy foundation on which they are based.
Consequently, most of the “brighter outlook” seen by Lexington is strictly in the eye of the beholder.)
 

robsta83

The Wanderer
Lexington Institute



Not being familiar with the Lexington Institute and the nature of what the F35 does to people, i'm not sure how accurate it is.

EDIT: Should point out that when this report was sourced on defense-aerospace.com it came with the following editors note

Outlook for F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Brightens
I like defense-aerospace but the editor is always making comments about the JSF, it annoys me. I don't know what his problem is but he is blatantly anti-JSF.
 

RobWilliams

Super Moderator
Staff member
It did strike me as being worded in the anti camp, I suspect if it was an anti JSF story there wouldn't be a comment disagreeing with it, nature of the beast I guess.

Anyway, here's a video walking us though - literally - the cockpit display in the F35 simulator. Gotta be honest, the amount of info the 'demonstrator' - i think is the right term - gives out in the eyes of a newbie seems staggering.

VERY interesting.

Lockheed Martin F 35 Lightning II stealth fighter cockpit demonstrator - YouTube
 
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