F-35 - International Participation

[John Fedup]

Apparently a Japanese F-35 has gone missing. No word yet on the pilot.

Air Self-Defense Force F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific | The Japan Times

 

[Ranger25]

Apparently some wreckage has been located and a tail section recovered

Japan Times writes:

"A section of the missing fighter’s tail was found and retrieved from the sea late Tuesday night about 135 km off the coast of the Air Self-Defense Force’s Misawa Air Base in Aomori, a ministry official said.

That discovery led the ministry to conclude that the state-of-the-art fighter — which cost more than ¥10 billion each — had plunged into the sea.

The cause of the crash remains unknown."

Updated as of 2100hrs


Update: 9:00pm PDT—

The U.S. Navy's 7th Fleet has released the following statement:

MISAWA, Japan – U.S. Navy P-8A maritime patrol aircraft and a guided-missile destroyer are assisting Japanese-led search and rescue efforts for the pilot of a Japan Air Self Defense Force F-35A missing since Apr. 9.

The F-35A lost radar contact approximately 85 miles east of Misawa Air Base.

A P-8A joined JASDF aircraft and Japan Maritime Self Defense Force ships searching the area overnight.

Additional flights are continuing today.

Guided-missile destroyer USS Stethem (DDG 63) is sailing to the search area now.

U.S. 7th Fleet provides security alongside allies and partners throughout a free and open Indo-Pacific. As the U.S. Navy’s largest forward-deployed fleet, 7th Fleet operates roughly 50-70 ships and submarines and 140 aircraft with approximately 20,000 Sailors.

The P-8A aircraft are assigned to Patrol Squadron (VP) 8 and Patrol Squadron (VP) 5. Both squadrons are homeported in Jacksonville, Fla. and are on rotational deployments to 7th Fleet out of Misawa, Japan.

Stethem is forward-deployed to Yokosuka, Japan.

The wreckage likely sits at a depth of around 5,000 feet, which will make recovering it challenging. Keep in mind that it isn't in one piece as we already know that part of the tail was floating in the area. Even stray F-35 wreckage can be the source of a major loss of technological secrets.

The jet had been airborne for around half an hour when it went down. Supposedly, there was no warning at all from the pilot that something had gone wrong. A call was made to stop training by another pilot sometime around when the aircraft went down. The pilot was in his 40s was highly experienced, but was still somewhat new to the F-35.




With all this in. Ind, this will certainly become an urgent search to recover and prevent even the smallest piece of wreckage from falling into PLA hands.

 

[John Fedup]

Would a F-35 have a flight recorder black box with a pinger?

 

[ngatimozart]

Would a F-35 have a flight recorder black box with a pinger?

I would presume so.

 

[John Fedup]

I guess if that is case there will be a race on as who recovers it. Would have to think control of these waters is is firmly in Japanese hands, along with massive USN support. As per Ranger 25’s post, there is no way the US wants this wreckage dissected and analyzed by China or Russia.

 

[Ranger25]

Sounds like the tail number that was lost as the first domestically assembled aircraft from Mitsubishi which may add the the mystery.

I’ll find the link to support.

Links

The crashed aircraft, which the JASDF identified as serial number 79-8705, was the first of 13 Japanese F-35As assembled so far by Mitsubishi’s final assembly and check out facility in Nagoya.

Link to article.

Japan confirms F-35A fighter jet crashed; remaining aircraft still grounded

 

[ngatimozart]

It appears that Greece are looking at acquiring the F-35A. The problem that I can foresee with such an acquisition is how will they finance it, given the state of their economy, plus the fact that they want to upgrade their F-16s to V standard, prior to replacing them.

Greece eyes F-35s as F-16 replacement

 

[John Fedup]

Maybe LM will offer a discount on the jets that are supposed to go to Turkey. In the unlikely event this were to happen would love to hear Erdogan’s rant.

Seriously though, I don’t see how Greece could afford F-35s. Perhaps this is a ploy to get in on the future Euro 5th Gen program.

 

[John Fedup]

The Nikkei Asian Review is suggesting the OBOGS as a possible reason for the recent F-35 loss. While possible, there is no way this can be ascertained yet.

F-35 crash shows problems still lurk behind stealth fighter

 

[Ranger25]

The pentagon has been insistent that the US and Japan will find the F35 first and not Chinese or Russian Assests.



China won’t find lost F-35 stealth fighter first, says Pentagon

 

[John Fedup]

The F-35 demonstration team from the USAF will make only 2 international shows, both in Canada. No doubt LM was pressing for this with the pending tender for fighters due out this year. Hopefully this effort pays off, for LM and the RCAF.

F-35 Demonstration Team coming to Aero Gatineau-Ottawa air show

 

[John Fedup]

Apparently the Japanese F-35 that crashed has been located and recovery operations are underway. This should end concerns about the technology falling into the wrong hands.

Crashed F-35A fighter jet located, US general says

 

[John Fedup]

This link contradicts my earlier post above about the wreck being found. Interesting point in the link below, the wreck may be in a shallower depth, 1,500 feet instead of 5,000 feet which may increase the chances for recovery by The US/Japan but maybe also for the Chinese/Russians.

The U.S. Military Now Denies That Japan's Missing F-35A Has Been Found

 

[cdxbow]

Maybe LM will offer a discount on the jets that are supposed to go to Turkey. In the unlikely event this were to happen would love to hear Erdogan’s rant.

Seriously though, I don’t see how Greece could afford F-35s. Perhaps this is a ploy to get in on the future Euro 5th Gen program.

I can't see the US letting Turkey continuing as a JSF partner if they purchase to S400. This article from Lawfare The F-35 Dispute and Tensions in the U.S.-Turkey Relationship highlights what's at risk, not just the F35

"If the S-400 is delivered to Turkey, the F-35 issues will be in some ways the least of Ankara’s problems. Purchasing Russian military equipment would trigger sanctions under CAATSA, which would not only reinforce the legal obstacles to F-35 delivery but also make it difficult to continue other foreign military sales with Turkey. Currently, the Turkish armed forces rely on licensed coproduction of American F-16 fighter aircraft and Black Hawk helicopters to equip their armed forces. The secretary of state published a list of sanctioned Russia defense entities in 2017, and under CAATSA measures any parties that purchase significant defense articles from sanctioned Russian entities can face secondary sanctions including additional restrictions under the AECA."

It's pretty bizarre. Turkey stands to lose $12+ billion in work related to the F35 for it's own aerospace industries. It has escalated to the point where the decision may determine whether Turkey remains a Western ally or Russian, which may be the underlying aim of Erdogan.

 

[John Fedup]

I agree with your post but even setting aside the S-400 issue, Turkey under Erdogan is not a country that should be receiving Western state-of-the-art military kit. Considering the the number of airforce people that have been purged by Erdogan, the talent pool must be pretty shallow for capable personnel to fly $100 million fast jets.

 

[John Fedup]

Stories like this won't increase LM's chances for a F-35 order in Canada. They better get their stuff together because even if junior is dumped in Oct, the Conservatives will be reluctant to spend political capital if these problem issues are still around next year.

Parts Problems Slow F-35 Production; CAPE Says Flying Costs Target Not Likely

 

[Ranger25]

The Black boxes for the crashed JSDF F35 have been located but apparently are badly damaged. Salvage underway for the pieces of the aircraft at 1500m of water


Flight data recorder from Japan's crashed F-35A retrieved, but key data still missing | The Japan Times

 

[John Fedup]

The depth issue seems to be a metric/ imperial conversion problem. Seems to me most articles have settled on 1,500 meters now instead of feet. Disappointing there is missing data recording info. Rightfully or wrongly this will be another obstacle for LM to overcome. More wiggle room for our PM, junior to ?uck the RCAF.

 

[ngatimozart]

The depth issue seems to be a metric/ imperial conversion problem. Seems to me most articles have settled on 1,500 meters now instead of feet. Disappointing there is missing data recording info. Rightfully or wrongly this will be another obstacle for LM to overcome. More wiggle room for our PM, junior to ?uck the RCAF.

Even though I use the metric system (SI system) all the time, especially when I worked in the science side of things, when using distance at sea I prefer to work in nautical miles. In regard to aviation when I use height above ground or sea level I prefer to use feet and in payload and fuel I prefer to use pounds, everything else related to both fields though, I am comfortable using SI units.

@John Fedup it's not all about the RCAF and at least you have an ACF. However I think that Trump and the US are right in giving Canada that ultimatum about offsets, when they are part of the original program and already have work-share. There is such a thing as being too greedy. If Canada does not follow through and acquire the F-35 then I believe that they should be excluded from any participation in the program whatsoever and their work-share be distributed to the other partners. Either all in or nothing. Simple as.

 

[Boatteacher]

I found this article

"Russia is "ready to cooperate" with Turkey to sell its new-generation Su-57 fighter jet in case the Ankara government and Turkish companies are expelled from the U.S.-led F-35 program, according to a senior Russian defense official."

At this link...
Russia pitches Turkey the Su-57 fighter jet if F-35 deal with US collapses

You have to suspect it is just Russia playing games. But still, it is an interesting thought for a supposed NATO member to have that type of Russian technology.

The loss of face involved in Turkey being denied the F35 won't go down well there and its consequences are unpredictable if it does come to that. But I suppose I'm left wondering if the Super Hornet or some other Western 4 1/2 Gen aircraft has any chance of offering Turkey an alternative while not putting too much technology at risk in the hands of an uncertain ally with an S-400 Anti Aircraft System?