F-35 - International Participation

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
John Fedup said:
I predict a new tender process so this doesn't become a big issue for the election (or least minimizes it) even though the present government wants the F-35. It has the added advantage that the main contender may cease to exist but Boeing will then apply massive pressure on the US Congress to purchase some Growlers to keep the line going until at least the end of 2016 so that they can keep the possibility of a Cdn deal alive.

If Boeing does lobby Congress, which I doubt given what Boeing has on its plate right now, to purchase some Growlers they will be met with a deaf ear. The US Defense Budget is just too tight and there is no money for anymore Growlers. If the Liberals win the election, then little Justin will opt for the Rafale or the Gripen. If he does, watch out for the backlash from the US Congress.
I think the House defence committee is trying to stick more Growlers into the 2015 budget but it may not pass a House vote. It will be close as there is concern amongst some USN leadership that the F-35C may not be the best path and their voices may convince Congress to build some more Growlers (an easier sell than more SHs). This in turn could provide sufficient time for Boeing keep the production line running long enough to realize a Cdn SH order.

As for little Justine, in the pathetic event he gets elected, screwing up the fighter replacement project will be the least of our worries.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
There are now reports saying the govt will announce a decision this coming Tuesday and it is expected the F-35 purchase will proceed. Frankly I am surprised they didn't try to put it off until after the election but as the current govt favours this jet I guess they feel now is better than later (probably right). The cancellation penalties that a possible future Liberal govt will have to fork over will dwarf what they paid out for the EH101 cancellation. Buying something now means no more funds need to be wasted trying to keep the CF-18s flying much past 2020.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
there are multiple sources in Canada now stating that JSF will be selected....
 
there are multiple sources in Canada now stating that JSF will be selected....
I have heard that as well and can't wait to see our neighbors to the North buy this lovely airplane, its hard to believe I was one of those detractors several years ago. As this airplane has been brought up to speed, I am getting excited to see how it will fair as it meets legacy aircraft, and even the F-22, and it will be a dynamite package as the USAF integrates it into the force structure, IOC for the A is predicted in 2016. These are exciting days as this aircraft is finally seeing the light of day, and it is turning out to be very capable, with the software upgrades she is beginning to come into her own...
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
there are multiple sources in Canada now stating that JSF will be selected....
The Ottawa Citizen is reporting this morning that no decision has been made yet and one is not expected before the summer recess. Apparently the four person panel that recommended the F-35 be selected will be making public statements this week. Thus, like so many other defence procurements, this will just drag on and on....
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
The Harper cabinet has not signed off on the F-35 and they are monitoring public reaction to their panel recommending the F-35. It is quite negative. Tonight, Canada's largest province re-elected the scandal ridden Liberal party. You can bet this will have Harper's cabinet evaluating whether they want to have the F-35 as an election issue next year against the federal Liberals. The F-35 is no longer a sure deal IMO.
 

jack412

Active Member
didn't the liberals sign off on the f-35 when they were in power last, or has the conservatives been in power all the time?
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
didn't the liberals sign off on the f-35 when they were in power last, or has the conservatives been in power all the time?
The Liberals signed on to the JSF program when they were last in power (about a decade ago) as a partner nation but there was no commitment to purchase. The current Conservative govt wants to order the F-35 but the opposition wants a open tender which is pointless unless you remove all the unique features of the F-35 in order to allow other companies to bid. The public are baffled by all the left wing media BS so the F-35 has very little support here along with most other defence matters. At this point the chances of another Conservative mandate are not good so maybe they should order the F-35 now as they are not likely to be in power regardless of the fighter selected (or none at all). Leaving the Liberals with a cancellation in late 2015 would be payback for their helicopter screw-up they left for the Conservatives when they came back to power.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
The CBC and other Canadian news outlets are reporting the fighter replacement program will likely not happen until as late as 2018. This is based on the Government's new guide for future acquisitions. It raises the possibilities of a new tender and new RCAF definition of requirements. However, this guide is almost a 180 degree turn from previous comments that a decision would be made by summer so WTF knows. As I said in previous comments, I think the Harper Govt sees the acquisition of the F-35 as it's death sentence in next year's election. The RCAF will suffer for this.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
The Toronto Globe and Mail has reported the Harper Govt has put the fighter purchase on hold. What they really mean is no decision until after the election in the fall of 2015. They will lose the election and the RCAF will lose the F-35. The RCAF will get something long before the RCN sees any new ships though.
 

Phd8511

Banned Member
How would aF-35 help with Canada's NORAD duties? Its not really configured for the fighter/interceptor mode in terms of weapons unless you place AIM-9Xs on the external pylons which would reduce the Stealth.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
How would aF-35 help with Canada's NORAD duties? Its not really configured for the fighter/interceptor mode in terms of weapons unless you place AIM-9Xs on the external pylons which would reduce the Stealth.
The BVR AIM-120 will fit internally. The Meteror BVR missile, perhaps the best in the world, will be configured for internal operation with Block 4 software. As the market will be a huge opportunity, other missile vendors will jump on board.
 

Phd8511

Banned Member
The BVR AIM-120 will fit internally. The Meteror BVR missile, perhaps the best in the world, will be configured for internal operation with Block 4 software. As the market will be a huge opportunity, other missile vendors will jump on board.
Canada buying the Meotor?

That's les missiles internally. A Super Hornet or F-15E could carry more even with less stealth. Plus can be a strike bomber.
 

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
Canada buying the Meotor?

That's les missiles internally. A Super Hornet or F-15E could carry more even with less stealth. Plus can be a strike bomber.
There's no reason an F-35 can't make use of heavy external payloads for missions that don't require a low observability aircraft. That's in addition to its internal payload. So essentially you can use it the way you would a more conventional fighter, with external munitions, drop tanks, etc - the difference is that if you need low observability the F-35 can do that too, whereas the other aircraft you mentioned cannot, regardless of payload.

Yes, the internal payload might seem small to some people, but it's not as though a typical strike mission would be flown by a single aircraft, you can expect a package containing multiple F-35s along with supporting assets, and the internal payload doesn't look so small when you're dealing with more than one aircraft. Likewise in an air to air combat scenario, four AMRAAMs might seem light on, but again you're not dealing with a single aircraft, but several. And because of the aircraft's datalink capabilities, if one F-35 detects hostiles, all the other F-35s know about it and can cue missile shots from that sensor data. So it might seem like a low number of missiles per aircraft, but the total available missile shots within the battlespace is going to look very different. Secure datalinking makes a very big impact.

Essentially the F-35 can do the same kind of things as a typical fourth generation multi-role combat jet, but it can also do things the fourth generation jets just can't compete with - wideband low observability, more comprehensive sensor fusion, better battlefield networking capabilities, and so on.
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
How would aF-35 help with Canada's NORAD duties? Its not really configured for the fighter/interceptor mode in terms of weapons unless you place AIM-9Xs on the external pylons which would reduce the Stealth.
It'll go supersonic with four AMRAAM and 18,000 lbs of fuel and a working FLIR - the F18 won't. Just sayin'...
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Canada buying the Meotor?

That's les missiles internally. A Super Hornet or F-15E could carry more even with less stealth. Plus can be a strike bomber.
How stealthy are these aircraft with these large external loads?

Oh wait, we're going around in circles with someone without a clue...
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #259
Sept. 24, 2014 – Following a comprehensive evaluation process, the Republic of Korea is the the third Foreign Military Sales country to procure the F-35, joining Israel and Japan who selected the F-35A in 2010 and 2011, respectively.

Lockheed Martin is expected to close a US$4 billion deal for 43 F-35 jets with the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD). This should bring the cost of the eighth batch of these planes down 2% to 4%.
.
 
Sept. 24, 2014 – Following a comprehensive evaluation process, the Republic of Korea is the the third Foreign Military Sales country to procure the F-35, joining Israel and Japan who selected the F-35A in 2010 and 2011, respectively.

Lockheed Martin is expected to close a US$4 billion deal for 43 F-35 jets with the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD). This should bring the cost of the eighth batch of these planes down 2% to 4%.
.
Hey, are you guys in hibernation down there, AU-1 flew 9/29/14 at 14:45 local time Dallas Fort Worth???? I figured you lads would be all over this???
 
Top