Escalation in Iraq

ngatimozart

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Pulling out now risks Iraq swinging to the Russia-Syria-Iran camp, which would leave Israel extremely vulnerable to political forces which see it as a threat. There's also the loss of political face. Leave now and it will look like the US backed down before the Iranians retaliated.
It's too late for thinking about that now. Iraq is really cranky with the US now and doesn't really care what the US thinks. It will do what it thinks is best for Iraq and given what's going on will eventually fall in to the Iranian thrall. Regarding Israel, it will always look to its own security and interest as it has done since 1948. It is its own worse enemy.
From Iran's perspective I believe their best strategy is to do very little on the Military front. Just work behind the scenes to secure Political Control and continue to bring Armaments into Iraq and Syria as discretely as they can. Avoid direct Military Confrontations with the US, Israel and Gulf States.
Iran can never hope to beat the US in a conventional war because of the technological advantage of the US. Having said that the same was said about the Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese, and in the end the US ended up going home with its tail between its legs, so it is possible for Iran to do the same - there is a precedent. However, Iran is quite capable of inflicting severe pain upon the US through the use of asymmetric warfare in which it is very adept and it is one of its strengths. With help from its Russian and Chinese friends, especially the Chinese, it would also be able to obtain parity with Saudi Arabia and near parity with Israel on the technological front. Bartering oil for weapons & technology would work well with the Chinese and a similar deal could possibly be done with the Russians.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
Iran can never hope to beat the US in a conventional war because of the technological advantage of the US. Having said that the same was said about the Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese, and in the end the US ended up going home with its tail between its legs, so it is possible for Iran to do the same - there is a precedent.
Off topic

I believe that is a very controversial statement, the communist leadership of North Vietnam regarded the conflict as one of total war and acted accordingly, whereas the United States committed large resources to South Vietnam but fell very short of a total war footing. With the Korean War still fresh in their minds with the escalation of Chinese troops intervention the US was never going to entertain an invasion of North Vietnam for that very reason.

It wasn't until Operation Linebacker II known as the Christmas Bombings of 72 when military planners could conduct the war in a manner of the unrestricted bombing campaign did the North feel the full heavy weight of the US and was acknowledged in historical records that North Vietnam could not continue which made the peace accord. One can only speculate on the outcome if the US was committed to an invasion of the North or an unrestricted bombing campaign during Operation Rolling Thunder up until 68. Its one of the what if type discussions but id hardly call it the US going home with its tail between its legs. For a successful conclusion it must have the support from all aspects of society from government industry media and the majority of the general population.
 

ngatimozart

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Off topic

I believe that is a very controversial statement, the communist leadership of North Vietnam regarded the conflict as one of total war and acted accordingly, whereas the United States committed large resources to South Vietnam but fell very short of a total war footing. With the Korean War still fresh in their minds with the escalation of Chinese troops intervention the US was never going to entertain an invasion of North Vietnam for that very reason.

It wasn't until Operation Linebacker II known as the Christmas Bombings of 72 when military planners could conduct the war in a manner of the unrestricted bombing campaign did the North feel the full heavy weight of the US and was acknowledged in historical records that North Vietnam could not continue which made the peace accord. One can only speculate on the outcome if the US was committed to an invasion of the North or an unrestricted bombing campaign during Operation Rolling Thunder up until 68. Its one of the what if type discussions but id hardly call it the US going home with its tail between its legs. For a successful conclusion it must have the support from all aspects of society from government industry media and the majority of the general population.
Yep, but the war didn't have the support of the US public at home and as it progress opposition got stronger and pressure was bought to bear on the pollies to get out. The US left Vietnam without any honour at all. The North Viets played to that fact that the war was being beamed home to the US public on their nightly news at tea time and used that to their advantage. They used the media to play the US public and turn the public against the war, and they also knew that the US public would be upset by high body counts, so they played the long game. When you get Hanoi Jane going to Hanoi, having photo ops with US POWs who have been brutalised, and she's willingly being used by the North Viets as a propaganda tool, what does that tell you about the public attitude back in the US? She returns and isn't derided, arrested or penalised for her actions. One of those POWs was the late Sen John McCain, and they'd passed her messages to take back to the US, which she gave to their captors, who subsequently beat the POWs severely. The North Viets used an all out war footing against the South Viets and the US. They did it not just by conventional arms, but by asymmetrical warfare including propaganda and disinformation. They took the war to the US home front and were able to turn a sizeable part of the population against the war. My question would be who forced who to the negotiation table? Was it the US bombing of the North in 1972? Or was it the North Viets continual pressure on South Viet and US forces, and US pollies by all means at their disposal? Or was it a combination of both? In the end a precedent was set and the US was forced out of the Vietnam War.

A US - Iran war will not be a popular war at home in the US. The Iranians know this and they will play on this. 50 years ago the North Viets didn't have the internet, but the Iranians do, and they are now quite adept and information warfare, so they'll be able to dissemble and disseminate disinformation and propaganda a lot easier and far wider than the North Viets could. If they have half a brain, which they do, they will have studied the North Viet strategies and tactics during the Vietnam War, especially their asymmetric warfare methodologies.
 

DouglasLees

Member
No good is going to come of this and General Qassem Soleimani was close to Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Between this and Trumps imposition of crippling sanctions it basically gives Iran casus belli for a justified war of self defence against the US, by whatever means at their disposal. In this case the US is definitely dropped itself in the brown smelly stuff and has undone any good will it may have built up, with non-Saudi aligned groups. If it is attacked by Iran, it cannot call on NATO assistance because it is outside of the NATO area AND in this case the US is, by all appearances, the aggressor. Iraq is very much annoyed by the US actions against militias within Iraqi borders, and this may be enough for it to make US military and diplomatic personnel persona non grata. These actions by the US are driving Iraq into the Iranian camp, not away from it so are very much self defeating, which appears to be a hallmark of much of the current Administrations foreign policy.
I listened to an interview yesterday on the BBC World Service with an Iranian identified only as ‘Ali’ for privacy reasons. He was very articulate and probably had a political and/or military background but was out of step with the current regime. He confirmed what I had already guessed: that the US action had united Iranians of all political persuasions behind the idea of avenging national honour and against the US. Even opponents of the regime who have recently been demonstrating are now calling for retaliation and putting their reforming agenda on hold. The roots of the current crisis (and arguably the roots of the Iranian revolution itself) lie in a series of bad decisions, first by the British and then by the US in engaging with Iran and a broader failure to understand its complex culture, including its distinctive version of Islam.

As for the brown smelly stuff, we in the UK are deep in it now, as illustrated by the failure of the US Administration to keep its British counterparts informed despite the presence of British forces and extensive commercial interests in the region. This not only reminds us of certain inconvenient truths about the ‘special relationship’. More importantly perhaps, it also shows that (whatever side we are on in the Brexit debate) it is not going to be as easy to reconstruct the idea of ‘Global Britain’ as the Brexit enthusiasts have claimed.
 

DouglasLees

Member
On a slight tangent but not too off-topic, I hope:
The latest twist in the Iranian drama has made me think back to the Iranian Embassy siege of 1980 in London, broken eventually by the SAS. The hostage takers were Iranian Arabs, from Khuzestan province in southern Iran, seeking either independence or regional autonomy. The Iranian Arab cause was, for a short time both before and after the siege, quite widely discussed and reported. Since then there has been very little about this question and I’m wondering if anyone knows what (if anything) has happened and whether this is going to be yet another potent ingredient in the mix.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
Yep, but the war didn't have the support of the US public at home and as it progress opposition got stronger and pressure was bought to bear on the pollies to get out. The US left Vietnam without any honour at all. The North Viets played to that fact that the war was being beamed home to the US public on their nightly news at tea time and used that to their advantage. They used the media to play the US public and turn the public against the war, and they also knew that the US public would be upset by high body counts, so they played the long game. When you get Hanoi Jane going to Hanoi, having photo ops with US POWs who have been brutalised, and she's willingly being used by the North Viets as a propaganda tool, what does that tell you about the public attitude back in the US? She returns and isn't derided, arrested or penalised for her actions. One of those POWs was the late Sen John McCain, and they'd passed her messages to take back to the US, which she gave to their captors, who subsequently beat the POWs severely. The North Viets used an all out war footing against the South Viets and the US. They did it not just by conventional arms, but by asymmetrical warfare including propaganda and disinformation. They took the war to the US home front and were able to turn a sizeable part of the population against the war. My question would be who forced who to the negotiation table? Was it the US bombing of the North in 1972? Or was it the North Viets continual pressure on South Viet and US forces, and US pollies by all means at their disposal? Or was it a combination of both? In the end a precedent was set and the US was forced out of the Vietnam War.

A US - Iran war will not be a popular war at home in the US. The Iranians know this and they will play on this. 50 years ago the North Viets didn't have the internet, but the Iranians do, and they are now quite adept and information warfare, so they'll be able to dissemble and disseminate disinformation and propaganda a lot easier and far wider than the North Viets could. If they have half a brain, which they do, they will have studied the North Viet strategies and tactics during the Vietnam War, especially their asymmetric warfare methodologies.

Agree, if one looks at the perceptions of all the conflicts the US has been in from WW1 only WW2 is the war that the majority of general population been on side Korea also had a similar level of support as well as Afghanistan

The main problem for the US is they are increasingly moving into conflict without support from the population from the onset and it doesn't help when the President is the most despised not only at home but on the world stage. There is no question that the US can just about roll over anyone if they committed to a total war footing, the problem for the US lies in the aftermath how to manage occupation and reconstruction is where the US losses its way the shinning example on what to do is Japan after WW2.
 

Rangitoto

Member
...and it doesn't help when the President is the most despised not only at home but on the world stage.
He's not despised at home. His current approval rating is 42.5% which is very similar to Barack Obama's approval rating towards the end of his presidency. He is despised by the US left wing media, which is what gets published all over the world.
How Popular Is Donald Trump?
I'm no Trump fan, but you can't argue with the US economic improvement that's happened under his watch, especially the reduction in unemployment for poor and minority communities.

It'll be interesting to see if the ramifications from this strike effect his home popularity, one way or the other. One of his presidential campaign lines was that he would get the US out of the foreign wars it was engaged in. In a strange way he may have partially achieved that by getting US troops kicked out of Iraq.
 
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Feanor

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Updates.

A US military base in Balad took rocket fire, also 3 rockets landed inside the green zone in Baghdad, including one near the US embassy.

Ракетный обстрел авиабазы Балад и "Зеленой зоны" в Багдаде

The US has carried out multiple airstrikes near the Iraqi-Syrian border against pro-Iranian formations. Total damage is unclear.

Нарастание напряженности в Ираке

Ash Shaabi forces in Anbar province have shot down a US UAV.

Удару ВВС США подверглась база имени имама Али КСИР Ирана в сирийском городе Аль-Букамаль

The moment Suleimani's car was hit, was captured on video.

Момент ракетного удара по автомобилям, в которых передвигались Касем Сулеймани и аль-Мухандис

Forces of the US 82nd Airborne are deploying in Kuweit, reportedly over 3000 in all. Also 4 KC-135 tankers have been rebased from the UK to Italy, to assist in the operation and Patriot missile have been deployed to Jordan.

Нарастание напряженности в Ираке
Wall
Wall

Qataib Hezbollah has issued a statement warning Iraqi forces to stay at least 1 km away from any US bases. Presumably this implies that US forces will be targeted.

https://diana-mihailova.livejournal.com/4358036.html

Funeral demonstrations and processions for Suleimani, as well as the other Iraqi and Iranian dead, are all over Iran.

https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/5540191.html
https://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/888202.html

The Iraqi parliament has passed an act requiring the withdrawal of US forces from the country. The law also calls for Iraqi to close its airspace to the US. In the wake of recent events multiple foreign nations have announced that they are ceasing operations in Iraq, including training of the Peshmerga in Iraqi Kurdistan. The US, Britain, Canada, and others, have issued statements advising all nationals to evacuate from Iraq.

https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/5544063.html
https://diana-mihailova.livejournal.com/4360070.html
https://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/889002.html
https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/5540375.html

Bloomberg has released information claiming that Trump planned the strike with a small circle of close advisers.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ke-planned-swiftly-with-tight-circle-of-aides

Muqtada Al-Sadr has issued a series of demands to the Iraqi government, including criminalizing any cooperation with the US, withdrawing all US bases, and the demand that the US embassy in Iraq be closed down..

https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/5544592.html
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Well the never ending Iraqi C-F enters another chapter. After spending hundreds of billions on ME military actions the Donald seems to be intent on spending billions more on this BS. Apparently upgrading capabilities against first tier adversaries and rebuilding infrastructure aren’t as important as pi$$ing around in the ME sandbox. I guess borrowing more money from China is the payment option as there is no appetite for raising taxes. Just look at the progress China has made in the last 20 years while the US wastes blood and treasure. China probably can’t believe their luck.

The Iraqi parliament has provided an exit option with its demand US troops leave. Leaves now and if they start slaughtering each other again other players can waste billions trying to sort the sandbox.
 

ngatimozart

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The funerals were today in Tehran and the city was packed with mourners. The Iranians are very angry and this assassination has united them. The Supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was quite emotional which apparently is something not seen in public. The feeling is any Iranian action won't happen until after the 3 day mourning period.

Mourners flood Tehran as calls for revenge over Soleimani grow
 

DouglasLees

Member
Meanwhile the British government is officially ‘not regretting’ the death of Soleimani while calling for ‘calm’ from ‘all sides’. This is a slight but noticeable shift from the line taken over the weekend that was merely ‘calling for calm’. All this is illustrative of our post-Brexit (although it hasn’t officially ‘happened’ yet) state of semi-detachment from Europe and struggling to be noticed by the US.
 

Feanor

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Updates.

Iran has mass launched ballistic missiles against multiple US bases across the Middle East. Reportedly there were two waves of missiles. Shiite militias in Iraq are mobilizing, Iranian fighter jets are already in the air, and there are unconfirmed reports of jets taking off in the UAE. The Revolutionary Guard have stated that if the US retaliates, Iran will hit targets in Israel next.

The Iranian president tweeted a picture of the Iranian flag after the strikes.

Иран обстрелял американские базы в Ираке
Iran fires missiles at multiple U.S. positions in Iraq in retaliation for Soleimani killing

6 US B-52H bombers have been rebased to Diego-Garcia.

Wall

The Iranian parliament has classified the US Pentagon as a terrorist organization.

Парламент Ирана единогласно признал Пентагон террористической организацией

The Iraq prime minister has resigned. But before leaving he has a made a number of revelations; he stated that recent protests in Iraq were created by the US in response to Iraqi deals with China. He also claimed that Trump threatened to have him and the Iraqi MinDef killed, and also threatened to have US snipers fire on both protesters and security forces to escalate the situation. It appears that other members of Parliament attempted to stop the PM from speaking.

Abdul Mahdi also claimed that the US demanded 50% of Iraqi oil profits in coming years to pay for US reconstruction, and on-going US infrastructural projects in Iraq. Iraq then opted to partner with China for those projects instead. Mahdi claimed that upon returning from China, Trump called him and threatened him with protests if he doesn't cancel his deals with China. There was allegedly a second conversation where Trump threatened to use US military personnel to fire on protesters and security forces to spark violence, and a third call where Trump allegedly threatened to have the Iraqi PM and MinDef killed.

Почему премьер-министр Ирака подал в отставку

The US accidentally or "accidentally" released a letter stating that it was preparing to withdraw from Iraq, then rapidly backtracked.

США "по ошибке" объявили о выводе войск из Ирака
https://diana-mihailova.livejournal.com/4364232.html

A Russian military delegation visited the Iranian embassy in Syria, to offer condolences for the death of Soleimani.

https://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/889270.html

Iran has withdrawn from remaining limits on enriching uranium.

https://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/889437.html

Approximately 5.5 million Iranians take to the streets for Soleimanis funeral.

https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/5546087.html
 

Feanor

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Update 2.

The US says Iran launched a total of 15 missiles, 10 against Ayn-al-Asad base, 1 hit Erbil, and 4 didn't make it. According to the Pentagon no US military personnel were killed in the Iranian strike. If true, it makes the situation look very odd.

This is also contradicted by Russian sources claiming Ayn-al-Asad was hit at least 35 times. It's possible the numbers above only refer to the first wave of missiles.

Wall
Wall
Иранские силы нанесли по американской базе не менее 35 ударов

Israeli air force and air defense are on high alert.

Wall

US is closing down civilian air traffic for US airlines over Iraq, Iran, the Persian Gulf, and the Gulf of Oman.

Wall

Turkish sources report that Erdogan has forbade the US from using Incirlik airbase to strike Iran under threat of closing the base.

Wall

Allegedly Qiam-1 and Zolfaghar missiles were used in the strike against US bases.

https://vk.com/milinfolive?w=wall-123538639_1297428
 

OPSSG

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IMO, Iran’s latest actions is a sign of weakness, not strength. They are lacking in the ability to conduct precision strikes. Iran’s weak local currency contributed to high levels of inflation — which the World Bank said peaked at 52% in May 2019. That raises the costs of living in Iran at a time when job opportunities are lacking. One main implication of a stagnant or declining economy is rising unemployment rate, which has been seen in Iran. The Iranian government has limited finances to roll out measures in order to lift the country's economy. That has been exacerbated by overall subdued economy activity and restrictions on oil sale overseas, due to the sanctions in place. Such fiscal constraints would limit Iran's ability to fund a war.

After Iran’s missile launches, there was confusion about whether the American President Trump would address the nation, but he ultimately decided to take to Twitter. “All is well!” Trump tweeted. “Missiles launched from Iran at two military bases located in Iraq. Assessment of casualties & damages taking place now. So far, so good! We have the most powerful and well equipped military anywhere in the world, by far! I will be making a statement tomorrow morning.”

Iraq now finds itself in a difficult position between Iran and the US.

Edit: Apologies for the prior factual error on Iraqis being killed in this post (that has since been edited). Iraq sources have also confirmed that none of their troops were killed in the 16 missile Iranian attack launched on the Ain al-Asad air base in the western Anbar province and a base in the Iraqi Kurdish capital Erbil.
  • Iraq received "an official verbal message" from Iran about the missile attack shortly before midnight on Wednesday, according to a statement from Iraq's Prime Minister Adil Abdul Mahdi. He said Iraq was told that the strike would be "limited to the whereabouts of the US military in Iraq, without giving the exact location."
  • US Army General Mark Milley, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has said that, in his personal opinion, Iran was aiming to kill American personnel and destroy US equipment with its missiles strikes on Al Asad and Erbil. This contradicts earlier reports that US officials believed that the Iranian regime had deliberately chosen targets to try to avoid causing casualties, as some Trump administration officials suggested.
  • US Defense Secretary Mark Esper also denied reports that the US was warned of the attack by Iraq, which itself was warned by Iran. He said that instead, the US warned Iraq of the attack, after its intelligence systems detected preparations for Iran's launch. IMO, Iran did not intentionally miss areas populated by Americans when they targeted two Iraqi bases housing US troops but simply failed to hit anything meaningful due to US capability to detect Iranian preparations for launch.
It seems as if the Iranians are lacking in intelligence on current American troop locations in Iraq — Iran’s missile attacks have failed to gain a propaganda windfall from the missile attacks by failing to kill Americans and we await President Trump’s response in the days ahead. As this drags on, more Iraqi citizens will be killed by the Iranians — making the Iraqi citizens realise how little Tehran cares. For some context to the Iranian missile strikes in Iraq that only killed Iraqi citizens, below is an extract of an interview with David Petraeus:

Foreign Policy (FP): What impact will the killing of Gen. Suleimani have on regional tensions?

David Petraeus (DP): It is impossible to overstate the importance of this particular action. It is more significant than the killing of Osama bin Laden or even the death of [Islamic State leader Abu Bakr] al-Baghdadi. Suleimani was the architect and operational commander of the Iranian effort to solidify control of the so-called Shia crescent, stretching from Iran to Iraq through Syria into southern Lebanon. He is responsible for providing explosives, projectiles, and arms and other munitions that killed well over 600 American soldiers and many more of our coalition and Iraqi partners just in Iraq, as well as in many other countries such as Syria. So his death is of enormous significance.

The question of course is how does Iran respond in terms of direct action by its military and Revolutionary Guard Corps forces? And how does it direct its proxies—the Iranian-supported Shia militia in Iraq and Syria and southern Lebanon, and throughout the world?

FP: Two previous administrations have reportedly considered this course of action and dismissed it. Why did Trump act now?

DP: The reasoning seems to be to show in the most significant way possible that the U.S. is just not going to allow the continued violence—the rocketing of our bases, the killing of an American contractor, the attacks on shipping, on unarmed drones—without a very significant response.

Many people had rightly questioned whether American deterrence had eroded somewhat because of the relatively insignificant responses to the earlier actions. This clearly was of vastly greater importance. Of course it also, per the Defense Department statement, was a defensive action given the reported planning and contingencies that Suleimani was going to Iraq to discuss and presumably approve.

This was in response to the killing of an American contractor, the wounding of American forces, and just a sense of how this could go downhill from here if the Iranians don’t realize that this cannot continue.

FP: Do you think this response was proportionate?

DP: It was a defensive response and this is, again, of enormous consequence and significance. But now the question is: How does Iran respond with its own forces and its proxies, and then what does that lead the U.S. to do?

Iran is in a very precarious economic situation, it is very fragile domestically—they’ve killed many, many hundreds if not thousands of Iranian citizens who were demonstrating on the streets of Iran in response to the dismal economic situation and the mismanagement and corruption. I just don’t see the Iranians as anywhere near as supportive of the regime at this point as they were decades ago during the Iran-Iraq War. Clearly the supreme leader has to consider that as Iran considers the potential responses to what the U.S. has done.

It will be interesting now to see if there is a U.S. diplomatic initiative to reach out to Iran and to say, “Okay, the next move could be strikes against your oil infrastructure and your forces in your country—where does that end?”

FP: Will Iran consider this an act of war?

DP: I don’t know what that means, to be truthful. They clearly recognize how very significant it was. But as to the definition—is a cyberattack an act of war? No one can ever answer that. We haven’t declared war, but we have taken a very, very significant action.
 
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Feanor

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IMO, Iran’s latest actions is a sign of weakness, not strength. They are lacking in the ability to conduct precision strikes
Yeah, I've always been confused by Iranian ballistic missile deployments. They're not very accurate, and not very powerful, with conventional warheads. It can't be cheap to deploy them either. All the while the Iranian air force is in sad shape, their air defense mediocre, and their ground forces are largely straight out of the 60s.

by killing only Iraqis, Iran has failed to gain a propaganda windfall from the missile attacks and we await President Donald Trump’s response in the days ahead. As this drags on, more Iraqi citizens will be killed by Iran — making the Iraqi citizens realise how little Tehran cares.
Well, let's not forget who else recently killed Iraqis during a strike intended for a geopolitical opponent... I suspect the years of US bombing and artillery work won't be outweighed by a few Iranian strikes.
 
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OPSSG

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Not sure where the action-reaction cycle will lead to for Washington or Tehran. Where does it end? Especially, given that Iran is conducting direct attacks from its own soil. International airlines have started diverting all flight routes from Iranian airspace.

In more bad news from Iran, at least 56 people have been killed and over 200 injured in a stampede in the southeastern Iranian city of Kerman at the funeral procession for top Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) and Quds Force Commander, Major General Qassem Soleimani who was assassinated in an drone strike by the Americans. The Quds Force is led by Major General Qasem Soleimani, who is believed to be more than a mere military commander. Since 2003, the Quds Force has intensified its operations across the Middle East, providing training, funding and weapons to non-state groups allied to Tehran.

The late Major General Soleimani the most powerful man in Tehran short of Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Hosseini Khamenei. This was not an act of revenge for what the General had done in the past. This was a preemptive, defensive strike planned to take out the organizer of attacks yet to come. The Iranian regime’s credibility has been badly hit in 2019/2020. It has to abandon past practice of using proxies and retaliate openly, if Iran’s credibility and ultimately its legitimacy — already under stress from poor economic performance — is not to be further undermined.

But further open retaliation by Iran against US forces also carries grievous risks. Iran’s next blow may be against US friends and allies in the Gulf including Israel and other non-Gulf states who have deployed assets there, like Japan. The IRCG said in its Telegram channel that, in the event Iranian soil is bombed, it will target the cities of Dubai, UAE, and Haifa, Israel, in the third wave of operations.

Due to Iranian threats, the UAE, meanwhile, is looking to extend the range of its Al Tariq glide bomb by fitting a small turbojet engine. The glide-bomb variant of the Al Tariq has a range in excess of 100km. Fitting it with a turbojet would more than double that range. The Al Tariq is based on South Africa’s Umbani glide-bomb kit. A mock-up of the engine installation was shown on the stand of the UAE’s new EDGE defence-industrial consortium at the Dubai Air Show, held on 17–21 November 2019. The Al Tariq family of weapons has featured prominently as one of the main capabilities used by the UAE Air Force (UAEAF) in taking part in the Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen. Semi-active-laser and imaging-infrared seeker options are available. The weapon is integrated on the UAEAF’s F-16 Block 60.
Yeah, I've always been confused by Iranian ballistic missile deployments. They're not very accurate, and not very powerful, with conventional warheads. It can't be cheap to deploy them either. All the while the Iranian air force is in sad shape, their air defense mediocre, and their ground forces are largely straight out of the 60s..
Not to forget the high dud rate of Iran’s missiles in the 14 Sep 2019 Saudi and this 8 Jan 2020 missile attack in Iraq.

Some observers were skeptical that Iran will launch a direct attack, but they were proven wrong. More likely, they say, is a retaliation attack on softer targets, possibly including American embassies or civilian sites, using the militias that serve as Iran’s proxies in the region. For example in 1992, a month after Israeli helicopters fired missiles to kill the leader of the Iranian-backed Hezbollah militia in Lebanon, a suicide bomber killed 29 people at Israel’s embassy in Argentina. This retaliation against an Israeli embassy may provide pointers for what might unfold in the wake of Soleimani’s violent death (viz a viz the Americans). American embassies and civilian sites world wide will need to be extra careful in the months ahead.
 
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Feanor

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Not sure where the action-reaction cycle will lead to for Washington or Tehran. Where does it end? Especially, given that Iran is conducting direct attacks from its own soil. International airlines have started diverting all flight routes from Iranian airspace.
Yeah, on that point, a Ukrainian 737 went down in Iran, near Tehran, just now, apparently killing all on board.

В районе Тегерана разбился украинский Boing-737

Not to forget the high dud rate of Iran’s missiles in the 14 Sep 2019 Saudi and this 8 Jan 2020 missile attack in Iraq.
High dud rate is one thing, it's a development issue, and possibly a quality of production issue. But its solvable over time, and with experience. I don't understand the principle idea behind deploying a bucket of large IRBMs with conventional warheads. The cost of this can't be cheap, and the effectiveness low. Imagine they all work, they're still hardly a cost-effective way of getting anything done. They're not very accurate and not very powerful.
 

ngatimozart

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Yeah, on that point, a Ukrainian 737 went down in Iran, near Tehran, just now, apparently killing all on board.

В районе Тегерана разбился украинский Boing-737



High dud rate is one thing, it's a development issue, and possibly a quality of production issue. But its solvable over time, and with experience. I don't understand the principle idea behind deploying a bucket of large IRBMs with conventional warheads. The cost of this can't be cheap, and the effectiveness low. Imagine they all work, they're still hardly a cost-effective way of getting anything done. They're not very accurate and not very powerful.
Yep they mightn't be accurate or powerfull but, for example, a 500 kg warhead plus the missile inertia still makes for a big bang and hole in the ground. Part of it is politics and politics is all about perceptions. The theocracy promised revenge upon the great satan and so it has rained down the wrath of the righteous upon the great satan in the form of fire and destruction. Revenge, like justice is seen to be done and POTUS if he has any brains, leaves it at that. The theocracy claims revenge, the US can claim nothing important was hit or damaged etc., and both parties agree that face has been saved on both sides and to settle things down a bit. Unfortunately POTUS is somewhat hotheaded and his Iranian counterpart much the same although more calm and calculating before acting.

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Some points come to mind;

1. Iranian Rockets were completely ineffective if their goal was to kill US Military Personnel
2. US Defences seem to be equally ineffective at shooting down incoming Rockets, they are not claiming to have managed to shoot down even 1 Rocket
3. Good opportunity for both sides to de-escalate now if they want to, the Iranians have fired a Salvo of Rockets through a US Base, which is a pretty ballsy response given the overall imbalance in Military Assets. US has apparently taken no Casualties so can choose not to respond without looking weak as they took out a General and received no Casualties in return
4. It must be close to untenable for the US Military to stay in Iraq. Their hosts voted overwhelmingly to kick them out and their enemies can shoot rockets through their bases whenever they choose to. If they leave Iraq they may have to leave Syria as well as much Logistical Support for Syrian contingent is via Iraq
5. Really would be folly for either side to continue, Iran has an obvious ability to bring Cities in the Gulf Countries to a standstill, any hit to any of the Major Cities will close the Airspace and cause chaos in their Airline Industries and massive disruptions. Same goes for the Oil and Shipping Industries. US & Israel have ability to bomb Iran back into the Stoneage. All concerned will bleed a lot of money.
6. Shooting down of Ukrainian Jet (unproven but consensus is that is what happened) highlights how nervous and poorly prepared Irani Air Defence is. Sometimes there just seems to be the wrong people in the wrong positions, i.e hot heads where cool heads are sorely needed.
 

MrConservative

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Staff member
Unfortunately POTUS is somewhat hotheaded and his Iranian counterpart much the same although more calm and calculating before acting.

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Really?

I suppose one could form that opinion when on the receiving end of an avalanche of woke western media outlets who look upon the likes of Hassan Rouhani and a sadistic thug like Soleimani as somehow a superior life form to a "deplorable" like Trump. :rolleyes:
 
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