China - Geostrategic & Geopolitical.

Ananda

The Bunker Group

This is quite interesting video on how China economic developement. The speaker is a proffesor on China Business School. One thing that for me like to stress on his description on China as Totaliterian Decentralise System.

He talk on how Chinese region has abilities to used their own regional resources or even regulations to attract investment. China central govt encourage each region to develop on their own as long as still within national frame work.

Strong regional actually already happen since Imperial era. This also shown Xi as Supreme Leader need to balance the central with regional need. In short, just like old days, any Emperor that lose their provincial/regional lords support can also lose mandate of heaven (at present time CCP Polit Bureau).

Something shown that in sense China still China of old.
 
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John Fedup

The Bunker Group
This is a rather dated article describing Chinese surveillance on its citizens. The cost of this exceeds the defence budget by 20% and in 2018 was 6% GDP. If accurate this is a huge amount of money. I wonder what the current numbers are?

 

swerve

Super Moderator
Internal security covers a lot more than surveillance, & the article doesn't say 6% of GDP, but 6.1% of government spending, which is a very different thing.

"Across China, domestic security accounted for 6.1% of government spending in 2017, the Ministry of Finance said. That translates into 1.24 trillion yuan ($196 billion) and compares with 1.02 trillion yuan in central-government funding for the military."

However, it's only officially admitted spending.

You may find this interesting - China’s Domestic Security Spending: An Analysis of Available Data
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Internal security covers a lot more than surveillance, & the article doesn't say 6% of GDP, but 6.1% of government spending, which is a very different thing.

"Across China, domestic security accounted for 6.1% of government spending in 2017, the Ministry of Finance said. That translates into 1.24 trillion yuan ($196 billion) and compares with 1.02 trillion yuan in central-government funding for the military."

However, it's only officially admitted spending.

You may find this interesting - China’s Domestic Security Spending: An Analysis of Available Data
Interesting information. It appears the security costs for enabling Xi to be Leader for life are becoming an expensive bill for Chinese citizens, not really an issue for Xi’s CCP.
 

weaponwh

Member
Interesting information. It appears the security costs for enabling Xi to be Leader for life are becoming an expensive bill for Chinese citizens, not really an issue for Xi’s CCP.
hmm isn't the conclusion was
During Hu Jintao’s second term as general party secretary (2007 to 2012), total national expenditures increased 51 percent faster than domestic security spending. During Xi Jinping’s current term (2013 to 2017), China’s domestic security spending grew 34 percent faster than total spending
domestic security always gonna increase when CCP consider the region challenging its power. also traditionally most chinese dynasty fall from within, even mongol/Qing invasion was due to severally weaken/corrupt central government. So the central have to make sure domestic stability is one of their top priority, probably more so than south china sea, or even taiwan. afterall they can united chinese to back ccp if its external threat, but if its internal, then thats troublesome for them to deal with it.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
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hmm isn't the conclusion was

domestic security always gonna increase when CCP consider the region challenging its power. also traditionally most chinese dynasty fall from within, even mongol/Qing invasion was due to severally weaken/corrupt central government. So the central have to make sure domestic stability is one of their top priority, probably more so than south china sea, or even taiwan. afterall they can united chinese to back ccp if its external threat, but if its internal, then thats troublesome for them to deal with it.
Yes and no. Historically dynasties fell when they were seen to lose the Mandate of Heaven and they weren't as centralised as today because of the communications technologies available at the time. Whilst the Emperor was the absolute authority and still ruled through the bureaucracy, the regional governors held significant political power and control. To a reasonable degree this is still current today within the PRC but the people are far more oppressed than any time under previous dynasties.

The CCP brooks no competition to its political power and control. It ruthlessly crushes all opposition and in recent years technology has increased both its surveillance and control capabilities. Its sole purpose is to remain in power and to that end everything else is subservient. That is why it spends significantly more on internal security than it does on external security. It requires the capabilities to keep the population in control and prevent them from replacing it with an alternative form of government.
 

weaponwh

Member
To a reasonable degree this is still current today within the PRC but the people are far more oppressed than any time under previous dynasties.

The CCP brooks no competition to its political power and control. It ruthlessly crushes all opposition and in recent years technology has increased both its surveillance and control capabilities. Its sole purpose is to remain in power and to that end everything else is subservient. That is why it spends significantly more on internal security than it does on external security. It requires the capabilities to keep the population in control and prevent them from replacing it with an alternative form of government.
i have to disagree on some these points. imperial dynasties was much more ruthless in term of punishment when someone challenging/criticize the emperor or the central government. in ancient china, even a hint of treason, they basically kill the entire family tree or torture them and their family member till they confess. there are alot of 文字狱 during imperial china, where scholar didn't even know why they get beheaded, not just them, their family will get exiled or beheaded as well. right now if someone criticize ccp, usually the 1st thing they do is tell them to shut up, if that doesn't stop them, they threatened the jobs/pension, maybe few days in jailed. these measure usually stop most who dare criticize ccp.

CCP still has to provide something to the ppl otherwise they will end up like NK, and ppl will revolt. CCP basically trade economic growth for lack of political freedom. Most chinese ok with it as long as the material life/economy is decent. but you are right CCP will crush any they perceived challenge to their power whether its from religion/miniority/majoirty, doesn't matter.
 
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OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Updates to help understand Chinese-Pakistani interests

1. Tensions are rapidly rising with Kabul, and Pakistan’s ties with key ally Beijing are showing some strain due to attacks on Chinese citizens. Chinese-Pakistani interests are strategic in nature and it is not an emotional bond that is easily hurt by an unfortunate act of terror. Chinese Premier Li Keqiang urged authorities in Pakistan to bring the perpetrators to justice in a phone call with Pakistani PM Imran Khan.

2. While there is a mutuality of purpose, the lack of security will hinder any development project in a remote area in Pakistan. The suspected suicide attack in July 2021 — with the largest loss of life of Chinese citizens in Pakistan in recent years — targeted a two-bus convoy transporting Chinese and Pakistani workers to the China-funded Dasu hydropower project that is under construction in the northwestern Kohistan region.
(a) The suicide bomber tried to ram his explosive-laden car into the first bus, but the ensuing blast did not go off with full intensity due to technical glitches, shattering windows but causing no harm to the passengers.​
(b) The explosion prompted the driver of the second bus to swerve to avoid a collision, plunging the bus into a ravine. That resulted in all the deaths and injuries, sources said.​

"China is shocked by and condemns the bomb attack in Pakistan's Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province which caused Chinese casualties, mourns for the Chinese and Pakistani personnel killed in the attack, and expresses sympathy to their families and the injured. Pakistani security forces have taken measures to control the situation, properly transfer and treat the wounded. China has asked the Pakistani side to thoroughly get to the bottom of this as soon as possible, arrest the perpetrators, severely punish them and earnestly protect the safety of Chinese personnel, institutions and projects in Pakistan," Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian told reporters in Beijing just hours after the attack.​

3. Winner of the best Twitter post of this week by Hu Xijin:

“The cowardly terrorists behind this attack dare not show up until now. But they will definitely be found out and must be exterminated. If Pakistan’s capability is not enough, with its consent, China’s missiles and special forces can be put into action.”​
This is followed up with a more even tempered post by Hu Xijin. Hu is a Chinese journalist and the editor-in-chief of the Global Times, a state-owned tabloid under the auspices of the Chinese Communist Party's official People's Daily newspaper.​

As is well known Pakistan’s aims in Afghanistan are driven by the Indian threat (strategic depth) and also to ensure it has friendly relations with Afghanistan’s Pashtun majority; given that Pakistan has a large Pashtun population and unresolved border demarcation issues with Afghanistan along the Durand Line. India’s previous attempts to seek greater influence in Afghanistan and the reported support given to Baluch separatist groups have played to Pakistani paranoia.
4. I pity Imran Khan. His intelligence agency has caused havoc abroad but his government cannot even be sovereign within its own undisputed borders. Afghanistan has withdrawn its ambassador and diplomats from Pakistan's capital following the kidnapping of the ambassador's daughter, the Afghan foreign ministry said on 18 July 2021. A hospital medical report, seen by the Associated Press, said Silsila Alikhil, suffered blows to her head, had rope marks on her wrists and legs, and was badly beaten for 5 hours. "The Afghan government recalled the ambassador and senior diplomats to Kabul until complete elimination of the security threats including the arrest and punishment of the perpetrators," the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement.
 
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SolarWind

Active Member
Sounds like Pakistan is on the path to becoming a failed state vulnerable to eventual Chinese takeover. "A house divided against itself cannot stand."
 
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