AUKUS

ngatimozart

ngatimozart

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hauritz said:
We are heading for a multipolar world. Something we haven't experienced since WW2.
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That's a very wrong assumption. There was a multipolar world from 1945 - 1991. What do ou think the Cold War was? An unipolar is very much an abberration.
 
H

hauritz

Well-Known Member
ngatimozart said:
That's a very wrong assumption. There was a multipolar world from 1945 - 1991. What do ou think the Cold War was? An unipolar is very much an abberration.
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Technically I would consider that a Bipolar world. There was a comparatively short period between the collapse of the USSR and the rise of China where the US was the one true superpower but I think over the next few decades will see the return of a true multipolar world.

Up and coming economic giants, India, Indonesia and Brazil are all well placed geographically to dominate their regions.
 
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seaspear

Well-Known Member
With Brazil to acquire a domestic built nuclear submarine before Australia it would leave Indonesia as the only "BRIC" not to have such. ,though Indonesia has been opposed to Australia's AUKUS deal and is unlikely now to do this
 
R

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
seaspear said:
With Brazil to acquire a domestic built nuclear submarine before Australia it would leave Indonesia as the only "BRIC" not to have such. ,though Indonesia has been opposed to Australia's AUKUS deal and is unlikely now to do this
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Brazilian SSN Alvaro Alberto to be commissioned in 2034 (navyrecognition.com)

Brazil has had a SSN project in place since the 1970s and signed a strategic partnership with France in 2009 for its future Sub fleet, starting with 4 Scorpene SSKs, to be followed by a SSN design loosely based on the Scorpene with commissioning due in the 2032-34 period. Interesting that Brazil has gone with that design instead of the Barracuda design, considering they are working closely with Naval Group.
 
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hauritz

Well-Known Member
It occurs to me that to some extent AUKUS in relation to the Virginia submarines is provisional. If there is a war or even major escalation with China in the later part of this decade our chances of getting US subs pretty much drops to zero. The Collins LOTE may still have to hold us over until the AUKUS SSNs are ready.
 
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Meriv90

Active Member

It could be interesting to have a POV from a frenchie on the RN nuclear force. (I know generated translated subs arent the best but they are something)
 
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Volkodav

The Bunker Group
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hauritz said:
When I hear politicians make claims like that I immediately think they are going to try and sell the idea that we can replace the entire Collins fleet wth just three SSNs
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He's justifying the cost and selling eight SSNs as more capable than twelve SSKs.

The danger will be in several years time under a future government when they say, hey we have five Virginia's, we don't need AUKUS or any replacement at all.

This is precisely what happened with out major fleet units in the late 90s. We only got the Hobart's because of Timor.
 
Musashi_kenshin

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
Volkodav said:
The danger will be in several years time under a future government when they say, hey we have five Virginia's, we don't need AUKUS or any replacement at all.
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Several years down the line I expect that final contracts will have been signed and Australia would still have to pay Rolls-Royce for the PW3s even if it tried to cancel the submarines. Would be pretty mad to pay that much money just to save on things like steel, combat management system and wages, even for politicians.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

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Musashi_kenshin said:
Several years down the line I expect that final contracts will have been signed and Australia would still have to pay Rolls-Royce for the PW3s even if it tried to cancel the submarines. Would be pretty mad to pay that much money just to save on things like steel, combat management system and wages, even for politicians.
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Never underestimate the stupidity of pollies. I cost Canadian taxpayers $500 million to cancel the EH101s in the early 1990s. Don’t even want to guess what that amount would be in today’s dollars.
 
Musashi_kenshin

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
John Fedup said:
Never underestimate the stupidity of pollies. I cost Canadian taxpayers $500 million to cancel the EH101s in the early 1990s. Don’t even want to guess what that amount would be in today’s dollars.
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That can probably be explained by the ubiquitous "peace dividends" that were breaking out across NATO budgets around that time. Treasuries in many countries were eager to save even a percentage of contracts because assumptions were made the items being bought would never be used.

Whereas now I think Australia is taking defence more seriously than Canada was in the 1990s.
 
aussienscale

aussienscale

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Verified Defense Pro
hauritz said:
When I hear politicians make claims like that I immediately think they are going to try and sell the idea that we can replace the entire Collins fleet wth just three SSNs
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Which is my concern, does not matter whether a conventional or nuke, the rule of three's still apply. Nukes can do things conventionals can't and vice verca, so a loose claim that a nuke is equivelant to 2 conventionals is a pretty stupid and open ended comment to make about a capability. I will have a listen to the time stamps suggested above, but a pretty stupid and arguebly ignorant commetnt to make, but not so surprising from a politician from any side of the fence though.

Cheers
 
J

JohnJT

Active Member
As AUKUS moves into pillar 2 operations (maritime autonomy, AI, cyber, hypersonics, quantum and undersea warfare), the incoming NZ foreign minister has opened the door to NZ joining in.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1731553969086837184

AUKUS countries look to Pillar 2 as Pillar 1 progresses | Shephard

Australia, UK and US to collaborate on maritime autonomy, AI, cyber, hypersonics, quantum and undersea warfare, as Australian officers graduate from US Nuclear Power School.
www.shephardmedia.com
www.newshub.co.nz

Analysis: NZ's foreign policy resets on AUKUS, Gaza and Ukraine

Winston Peters is wasting no time in getting back on the foreign affairs horse, writes Geoffrey Miller.
www.newshub.co.nz www.newshub.co.nz
 
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