armed forces on a budget

[d_taddei2]

Not sure if this has been asked yet.
would like peoples views on the following.
if you were given a small budget to re-equip or start an armed force. what would you buy/equip them with???
I know first thing people will ask is how small a budget, so think of it in terms of having to equip your forces to provide a good balance of the following, reliability, maintainance, performance/effectiveness, cost, and ease of procurement. On the following areas:
assault rifle
LMG
MMG
HMG
sniper rifle(GP type no 50cal etc)
anti weapons (to include both shoulder launched and tripod mounted[saclos] etc) and one of them must be able to defeat basic ERA (point to note that some older systems now have upgraded missles so dont rule them out.
i havent included pistols/sub machine gun/AGL as they arent a necessity for a basic armed force on a budget, and didnt want to ask for too much, but if want to to include them you can.

 

[Todjaeger]

Not sure if this has been asked yet.
would like peoples views on the following.
if you were given a small budget to re-equip or start an armed force. what would you buy/equip them with???
I know first thing people will ask is how small a budget, so think of it in terms of having to equip your forces to provide a good balance of the following, reliability, maintainance, performance/effectiveness, cost, and ease of procurement. On the following areas:
assault rifle
LMG
MMG
HMG
sniper rifle(GP type no 50cal etc)
anti weapons (to include both shoulder launched and tripod mounted[saclos] etc) and one of them must be able to defeat basic ERA (point to note that some older systems now have upgraded missles so dont rule them out.
i havent included pistols/sub machine gun/AGL as they arent a necessity for a basic armed force on a budget, and didnt want to ask for too much, but if want to to include them you can.

Unfortunately, without context the question is essentially meaningless and impossible to answer.

For example, what is the size of the land area which needs to be defended?
What is the terrain like?
What is the population of the area?
Any major resources?
Who are the major threats?
What is the nature of the threats?
What sort of technical/industrial skill is available from the population?

These are all factors which impact what is required, before one even gets into what sort of budget is available, or who can/would be willing to sell weaponry.

The sorts of weapons and kit appropriate for jungle ops in many instances would not be worthwhile in cold climates. Similarly, what makes sense for open plains in many instances would be the opposite of what is most effective in urban terrain.

-Cheers

 

[d_taddei2]

reply

ok some of ur points can be taken into account, the terrain would be a european climate, threat could be anything from terrorist to war including on foreign soil. the rest doesnt effect it in a general sense this i what i am asking and good all round choice of weapons, a good balance your on a small budget like i said but to think it what would you buy to supply good all round general purpose weapons. when u have a small budget can go around buying different weapons to suit different needs, but weapons which would be good in all round situations. i am not looking for a specific weapon choice for a certain type of threat, etc as some countries may have many threats out there but cant always buy weapons to suit every single situation, and as far as skills for the nation etc, the country has no arms industry as yet so would have to buy from another country, but may get rights to build a weapon from another country. I didnt want to be to specific i want people to think if they were tasked with supplying there armed forces with good all round weapons which could used is most situations have the budget wasnt huge what would u get?

Unfortunately, without context the question is essentially meaningless and impossible to answer.

For example, what is the size of the land area which needs to be defended?
What is the terrain like?
What is the population of the area?
Any major resources?
Who are the major threats?
What is the nature of the threats?
What sort of technical/industrial skill is available from the population?

These are all factors which impact what is required, before one even gets into what sort of budget is available, or who can/would be willing to sell weaponry.

The sorts of weapons and kit appropriate for jungle ops in many instances would not be worthwhile in cold climates. Similarly, what makes sense for open plains in many instances would be the opposite of what is most effective in urban terrain.

-Cheers

 

[Todjaeger]

ok some of ur points can be taken into account, the terrain would be a european climate, threat could be anything from terrorist to war including on foreign soil. the rest doesnt effect it in a general sense this i what i am asking and good all round choice of weapons, a good balance your on a small budget like i said but to think it what would you buy to supply good all round general purpose weapons. when u have a small budget can go around buying different weapons to suit different needs, but weapons which would be good in all round situations. i am not looking for a specific weapon choice for a certain type of threat, etc as some countries may have many threats out there but cant always buy weapons to suit every single situation, and as far as skills for the nation etc, the country has no arms industry as yet so would have to buy from another country, but may get rights to build a weapon from another country. I didnt want to be to specific i want people to think if they were tasked with supplying there armed forces with good all round weapons which could used is most situations have the budget wasnt huge what would u get?

Unfortunately then, the scenario is so vague as to only permit vague answers. This makes the overall mental exercise essentially useless.

Until the situation is understood sufficiently to know what sort of engagements could occur, then making suggestions on appropriate kit really is not possible.

Are there aircraft which could need to be engaged?
light armoured vehicles?
heavy armoured vehicles?

Does the terrain favour dug-in or mobile engagements? Are there frequent chokepoints?

Unless there is a good deal more information provided for the question, no real answers are possible.

 

[My2Cents]

the terrain would be a european climate

That’s the weather.

1. What is the terrain like – Norway/Switzerland (mountains), France/Poland (flat/rolling hills), or UK/Crete (island)? Is there a lot of good blocking terrain? Forested areas?
2. How big is the country
3. What is the population? (order of magnitude)
4. How do the majority of the live – outdoor types (Norway/Finland/Switzerland) or urban (France/Germany)?

threat could be anything from terrorist to war including on foreign soil.

So, is the enemy Liechtenstein or the Warsaw Pact? What will the force ratio be?
Will the enemy forces be mostly mechanized or infantry?
How much air power?
How long before can you expect help to arrive?

 

[d_taddei2]

reply

think u should use your imagination, really, a general purpose, (hint, hint) i would imagine if you were picking an anti tank weapon that it would be used against armour or bunkers, if the they were faced with helicopters then i would imagine you would engage them with HMG/MMG and the type wouldnt matter, u cant predict what the enemy would eaxctly do, as you may not know what kind of conflicts u may get into around the globe. maybeu should as yourself why did various countries around the world choose theres, most small arms all do pretty much the same, anti tank alittle different. your asking about choke points what ur suggesting that if u had an army that you would only buy weapons if they good in choke points but then ask yourself if it would serve a general purpose role obviously not if your shoe horning it into a specific role then what happens if your forces get into a conflict around the globe??? only fight in choke point areas??? maybe always be your choice, so what would u do go and buy different weapons?? i think not.

Unfortunately then, the scenario is so vague as to only permit vague answers. This makes the overall mental exercise essentially useless.

Until the situation is understood sufficiently to know what sort of engagements could occur, then making suggestions on appropriate kit really is not possible.

Are there aircraft which could need to be engaged?
light armoured vehicles?
heavy armoured vehicles?

Does the terrain favour dug-in or mobile engagements? Are there frequent chokepoints?

Unless there is a good deal more information provided for the question, no real answers are possible.

 

[d_taddei2]

reply

well i wasnt trying name specific countries i was looking for a general purpose good all round weapons system, you can never really know what parts of the globe ur forces maybe sent it could be desert/artic/jungle etc, so you could be looking at all types of terrain when i was in the forces the SA80 was used in the artic, jungle and desert, even though it was crap in the desert but has since been upgraded this was deemed a good all round weapon in those types of enviroments (not my view the british armies view). But you could give me an example of what you would buy and giving an example of what type of european country etc, would be interesting. I am really just looking for examples of what people would buy for there forces if they had a small budget, i didnt want to complicate it too much so some people wouldnt be put off too much with providing as massive explanation.

That’s the weather.

1. What is the terrain like – Norway/Switzerland (mountains), France/Poland (flat/rolling hills), or UK/Crete (island)? Is there a lot of good blocking terrain? Forested areas?
2. How big is the country
3. What is the population? (order of magnitude)
4. How do the majority of the live – outdoor types (Norway/Finland/Switzerland) or urban (France/Germany)?

So, is the enemy Liechtenstein or the Warsaw Pact? What will the force ratio be?
Will the enemy forces be mostly mechanized or infantry?
How much air power?
How long before can you expect help to arrive?

 

[My2Cents]

well i wasnt trying name specific countries i was looking for a general purpose good all round weapons system, you can never really know what parts of the globe ur forces maybe sent it could be desert/artic/jungle etc, so you could be looking at all types of terrain when i was in the forces the SA80 was used in the artic, jungle and desert, even though it was crap in the desert but has since been upgraded this was deemed a good all round weapon in those types of enviroments (not my view the british armies view). But you could give me an example of what you would buy and giving an example of what type of european country etc, would be interesting. I am really just looking for examples of what people would buy for there forces if they had a small budget, i didnt want to complicate it too much so some people wouldnt be put off too much with providing as massive explanation.

The terrain largely dictates your tactics. Tactics determine your material needs. Some examples for the defense.

• In mountains armored vehicles are of limited use and long range combat is more common, so you might want to be mostly infantry and go with 7.62mm NATO weapons, light and medium mortars, and man portable missile launchers like the Javalin.
• In flat to rolling terrain you have to use a mobile defense which requires large numbers of armored vehicles and self propelled artillery.
• Urban defense favors infantry with short range weaponry like 5.56mm, medium and heavy mortars, and lots of anti-tank rockets instead of missiles.
• In an island defense you would want mostly aircraft, submarines, and maybe sea mines to deny them the ability to land.

See the difference?

 

[d_taddei2]

reply

i knew what u meant, but you cant buy different assault rifle for different occassions it has to be a general purpose, something that would be in both situations. this is what i am getting at, you may not know what type of warfare u may get into. I do understand different types of warfare hence i didnt mention mortars as they tend to be alittle more specific in use.

The terrain largely dictates your tactics. Tactics determine your material needs. Some examples for the defense.

• In mountains armored vehicles are of limited use and long range combat is more common, so you might want to be mostly infantry and go with 7.62mm NATO weapons, light and medium mortars, and man portable missile launchers like the Javalin.
• In flat to rolling terrain you have to use a mobile defense which requires large numbers of armored vehicles and self propelled artillery.
• Urban defense favors infantry with short range weaponry like 5.56mm, medium and heavy mortars, and lots of anti-tank rockets instead of missiles.
• In an island defense you would want mostly aircraft, submarines, and maybe sea mines to deny them the ability to land.

See the difference?

 

[old faithful]

ahh, for farks sake.

It is school holidays....

 

[DavidDCM]

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Wouldn't this thread just boil down to "What is your favourite rifle/MG/LMG etc?"

If I were in charge of a small budget country building up its armed forces I would contact the weapons manufacturers of those countries I am on friendly terms with, get their offers, compare, possibly trial the weapons and choose the best offer. <-- ideal world scenario.
If you are a small country depending on actual international relations than you have no really free choice. If you depend on the United States you probably end up with the M16/M4 family of rifles, whether your soldiers favor them or not. If you are with Russia you'll get something from the AK-family.

Just imagine I would say: "My standard rifle would be the G36.". I could try to back it up with serious arguments, someone who favors another rifle could try to critizise me and in the end it would just develop into a "X vs Y" kind of threat.

 

[d_taddei2]

reply

obviously it is, cant wait intil you go back.

ahh, for farks sake.

It is school holidays....

 

[d_taddei2]

reply

yhanks for the some input, but obviously still lacking some info. its not about what your favorite weapon is, its whats suitable.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Wouldn't this thread just boil down to "What is your favourite rifle/MG/LMG etc?"

If I were in charge of a small budget country building up its armed forces I would contact the weapons manufacturers of those countries I am on friendly terms with, get their offers, compare, possibly trial the weapons and choose the best offer. <-- ideal world scenario.
If you are a small country depending on actual international relations than you have no really free choice. If you depend on the United States you probably end up with the M16/M4 family of rifles, whether your soldiers favor them or not. If you are with Russia you'll get something from the AK-family.

Just imagine I would say: "My standard rifle would be the G36.". I could try to back it up with serious arguments, someone who favors another rifle could try to critizise me and in the end it would just develop into a "X vs Y" kind of threat.

 

[d_taddei2]

reply

so little imagination, not really asking anything complex, people can look at it how they want, but still cant answer a basic answer, a general purpose good all round weapon which you see is fit for an armed force, not really that hard, some people do really need to be pointed in the right direction,try thinking out of box for once, instead of getting into the finer details, if i wanted finer detail info i would have defined the post to a finer point which would have not achieved what i wanted. I want a broad spectrum of answers to see what people thought. And thanks to those who have put some effort into it, have admit dave, g36 is a very good all round weapon.

 

[OPSSG]

Thread closed, pending Mod discussion. This thread has long passed its use by date. And if another useless thread on the same/similar topic is started by the thread starter, he will be banned.

Senior members have been more than patient with the thread starter (to guide him along) but it seems unappreciated. As the other members already know, kids with attitude tend to be short timers, here in this forum.