Absalon Class Combat / Flexible Support Ship

[Jezza]

Absalon Class Combat / Flexible Support Ship

Found this ship design and thought would this be a great replacement for the FFGs in RAN service.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/absalon/

The command and support ships of the Absalon class are based on a frigate type design but built with an internal multipurpose deck and a stern vehicle ramp. The ships can serve as command platforms for a staff of 75 persons (naval or joint staff), transport ships for 200 troops plus 55 vehicles including up to 7 MBTs, minelayers with a capacity of 300 mines or as hospital ships. The ships carry two LCPs (landing crafts).
section of the ship. The standard weapons container fit for the ship will be two modules for the Harpoon surface-to-surface missile and three modules for the Evolved Sea Sparrow surface-to-air missiles.
Two modules each carry eight Harpoon Block II surface-to-surface missiles.
The three modules for the surface-to-air missiles will each carry a 12-cell mk6 vertical launcher allowing the ship to carry 36 RIM-162 Raytheon Evolved Sea Sparrow Missiles (ESSM). The CEROS 200 fire control system provides radar homing illumination. The ship is fitted with four Flexfire radar and electro-optical trackers.
The ship will be armed with the Eurotorp MU 90 lightweight torpedo and a twin or triple torpedo launcher on both sides of the weapons deck.
The ship can carry up to 300 mines and can be fitted with containerised mine laying rails.
The ship has two Close-In-Weapon Systems (CIWS), the Oerlikon Contraves Millenium, 35mm naval gun system (GDM-008), one to the front of the bridge and one on the roof of the hangar. Millenium can fire the 35mm Ahead Air Burst Munition, at 1,000 rounds a minute. Each round contains 152 3.3g sub-projectiles, fired at a velocity of 1,050m/sec. Millenium is effective at over 3.5km for aircraft / helicopters, 2km for guided missiles / cruise missiles and 1.2km for anti-radiation missiles.
Under a contract awarded in October 2002, a BAE Systems Land & Armaments (formerly United Defense) 127mm 62 mk45 mod 4 gun provides naval fire support capability. The gun will be capable of firing the newly developed Extended-Range Guided Munitions (ERGM) such as the EX-171 ER which will have a range of over 100km with an accuracy of less than 20m.
The ship is equipped for insertion of Special Operations Forces (SOF). The cargo deck carries two special forces insertion craft. The 7.4t 12m SRC-90E insertion craft are operated by a crew of two or three and can carry 1,800kg of equipment, up to nine passengers or four stretcher patients.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absalon-class_command_and_support_ships

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMS_Esbern_Snare_(L17)

http://www.navalhistory.dk/English/NavyNews/2006/0622_PatrolShips.htm

http://www.storebro.se/Nav.aspx?pageid=79

What a versatile ship and well thought out multi purpose ship.

 

[swerve]

I'd say it's a superb design for a small navy, & 2 or 3 of 'em might have been perfect for New Zealand - but too late, NZ has already gone another way. Not sure about Oz, though. RAN gets the amphib capabilities via bigger dedicated ships.

 

[regstrup]

I think, that the Absalon Class have been discussed in the treads:

New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

and

New Danish Frigates

among others

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

They'd be great for the RNZN. But there just not capable enough at ASW or AAW for the RAN to be a replacement for the FFG's, and we'll have all the sealift we need with the LHD's (we'll be able to lift and deploy the best part of a heavy brigade with gunship and NH90 support). If they had room for SM2/3 and a decent sonar suite with a towed array i'd be singing a different tune though.

 

[BilalK]

From one of the links above:

http://www.navalhistory.dk/English/NavyNews/2006/0622_PatrolShips.htm

excerpt:

The total cost of the three new patrol ship will be in the surrounding of 4,7 billion Danish kroners (around US$ 800 millions), which include 435 million dkr. already spend on the pre planning, and the balance amount of 4,2 billions to be accepted by the Finance Committee.

The price tag does not include the future aquiring of long range air defense missiles etc. This descission wil most likely be included in the upcoming Defense Agreement after 2010.

Should the RDN descide to equip the ships with a 127 mm (5") gun, due to a change in the operational pattern; such a descission would call for a new separate apporval.

Bearing in mind, that the expected lifetime of the new ships are expected to be around 30 years, the total costs seems reasonable, and far beyond those amounts used by other nations on new similar naval projects.

Helicopters for the patrol ships are not included, as these helicopters are a separate part of the Defense Plan, and this descission will be made during the upcoming year.

Pretty good price for such a versatile and well equipped ship! I wonder why no export orders came up.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

So they are looking for a decent medium range SAM? SM2 i would assume. That makes the vessel more attractive.

I just have to assume with all that space used to haul caro is being wasted when your not hauling anything. And then you've got a small, armed LPD with no ASW capability.

For a small navy, they are a great option. You kill two birds with one stone. they would be great for the RNZN (like i said before) giving them some sort of sealift capability with decent air defence. But for a navy with larger sealift ASW and AAW capability needs, i dont see the usefullness. its a versitile ship but it lacks some serious capabilities. A jack of most trades master of none if you will.

 

[BilalK]

According to the above link, the Absalon does have some ASW capability. Two twin torpedo launchers for MU90. To be honest, I'm speaking from the small navy's perspective. Not many can afford specialized vessels for transport, medical, special forces, etc - and also require good naval platforms as well. Under those circumstances the Absalon is a good vessel as it be used for different roles and purposes often exclusive to larger and financially better off navies. Honestly I do not know the scope of larger navies except the fact that they are very powerful

Despite that however, I am curious as to why the Absalon Class did not receive any export orders. In price I do not think it would cross $500mn per ship (one of the links says the price is $266mn per ship). It might be the ideal command & control ship for many medium size or green water navies.

 

[alexsa]

Despite that however, I am curious as to why the Absalon Class did not receive any export orders. In price I do not think it would cross $500mn per ship (one of the links says the price is $266mn per ship). It might be the ideal command & control ship for many medium size or green water navies.

Given the Navnatia is being mooted as costing in the order of 300 million euro then 266 million USD for something wihtout the aviation capcity is not cheap (I suspect the BPE may go a tad over the 300 million mark).

Still for a smaller navy wishing avoid additional escorts by combining amphibous support with a light frigate weapons system (similar to ANZAC) on a destroyer size hull it is pretty flexible.

 

[Grand Danois]

Given the Navnatia is being mooted as costing in the order of 300 million euro then 266 million USD for something wihtout the aviation capcity is not cheap (I suspect the BPE may go a tad over the 300 million mark).

Still for a smaller navy wishing avoid additional escorts by combining amphibous support with a light frigate weapons system (similar to ANZAC) on a destroyer size hull it is pretty flexible.

266 million USD is slightly off the mark. The program cost of the entire Absalon class; project management, design, tooling up, construction, weapons, sensors, fitting out, etc., is 437 million USD (B2.5DKR) for both ships.

Much of the design plus tooling up will be resused in the three guided missile frigates.

I would think of it rather as a "utility frigate" than an actual amphib assault vessel.

 

[Tasman]

So they are looking for a decent medium range SAM? SM2 i would assume. That makes the vessel more attractive.

I just have to assume with all that space used to haul caro is being wasted when your not hauling anything. And then you've got a small, armed LPD with no ASW capability.

For a small navy, they are a great option. You kill two birds with one stone. they would be great for the RNZN (like i said before) giving them some sort of sealift capability with decent air defence. But for a navy with larger sealift ASW and AAW capability needs, i dont see the usefullness. its a versitile ship but it lacks some serious capabilities. A jack of most trades master of none if you will.

I agree with you Ozzy. The Absalon design would have been ideal for NZ but in the case of the RAN the future need will be for ships to escort the LHDs and back up the AWDs. As such I think ships with good AAW and ASW capabilities are needed. They will also need to be able to support troops ashore with NGS and perhaps land attack missiles. Space for troops and landing craft, other perhaps than a small special operations unit, would be wasted IMO.

I think the RAN would be better off building a follow on to whichever of the F100 or G&C evolved designs is chosen as the new AWD, by using the same hull, main gun and VLS arrangement but replacing AEGIS with CEAFAR to keep the costs down. This would provide a very effective FFG. The missile load out could be varied with some of the long range SAMs being replaced with land attack missiles. To keep up the numbers of the surface combat force I would supplement the AWDs and FFGs with a number of low cost units. Depending on where the RAN sees its future priorities these could range from corvette or OPV type vessels to an Australianised LCS based on the Austal design.

The size of the future RAN fleet will be dependent on available funds, the success of future recruitment programs and, of course the perceived threat level. Depending on how this evolves I think that a force of 3/4 AWDs, 4/6 FFGs, 4/6 LCS, 6/8 next generation submarines, 2 LHDs, the follow on sealift ship and a balanced force for support, mine warfare and patrol work would be a realistic target. IMO, this would provide a strong, balanced and versatile force.

Cheers

 

[alexsa]

I think that a force of 3/4 AWDs, 4/6 FFGs, 4/6 LCS, 6/8 next generation submarines, 2 LHDs, the follow on sealift ship and a balanced force for support, mine warfare and patrol work would be a realistic target. IMO, this would provide a strong, balanced and versatile force.

Cheers

What is the fixation with LCS. It has LO features and is being designed for a very specialised riole within the US Navy. These are light weight hulls with limited armament compared to a decent frigate (57mm guns, sea RAM and HMGs). In really adverse conditons they will be at a disadvantage due to their lightweight structure

Any specialised 'mission packages' they carry eat into the cargo space and they are not a 'multi role vessel of the type the RAN needs but are equiped for a particular mission each time they go out.

Finally they are really bloody expensive and thats without considering the cost of the mission packages. If we take anything from LCS it should be the plug in and play capability.

 

[Tasman]

What is the fixation with LCS. It has LO features and is being designed for a very specialised riole within the US Navy. These are light weight hulls with limited armament compared to a decent frigate (57mm guns, sea RAM and HMGs). In really adverse conditons they will be at a disadvantage due to their lightweight structure

Any specialised 'mission packages' they carry eat into the cargo space and they are not a 'multi role vessel of the type the RAN needs but are equiped for a particular mission each time they go out.

Finally they are really bloody expensive and thats without considering the cost of the mission packages. If we take anything from LCS it should be the plug in and play capability.

What you say may well be true and I did preface my statement with the comment, "Depending on where the RAN sees its future priorities these could range from corvette or OPV type vessels to an Australianised LCS based on the Austal design." If RAN priorities run to a corvette (which nowadays is more like a WW2 frigate in size and superior in hitting power) or even to additional AWDs or FFGs I would be happy to go along with what they want. A force of something along the lines of 4 AWDs and 8 FFGs would make me very happy indeed.

I think the reason the LCS type might be worth considering is that the RAN seems to be deploying ships in littoral situations on a fairly regular basis. Also my understanding is that the design is based on a local product from Austal so local construction shouldn't cause any problems. But I take your point and if it is deemed unsuitable for the RAN then so be it.

Cheers

 

[Todjaeger]

What is the fixation with LCS. It has LO features and is being designed for a very specialised riole within the US Navy. These are light weight hulls with limited armament compared to a decent frigate (57mm guns, sea RAM and HMGs). In really adverse conditons they will be at a disadvantage due to their lightweight structure

Any specialised 'mission packages' they carry eat into the cargo space and they are not a 'multi role vessel of the type the RAN needs but are equiped for a particular mission each time they go out.

Finally they are really bloody expensive and thats without considering the cost of the mission packages. If we take anything from LCS it should be the plug in and play capability.

I'd just as soon take the "plug & pray" (opps sorry that was a Microsoft thing...) concept from the Standard Flex 300 which IIRC lead to the development of the Absalon... I think the containerized weapon system concept would be a good one for different navies to adopt. And as has been mentioned, an Absalon-style vessel would likely do well in smaller navies that have a number of different roles to fufil but can't afford specialized ships for each task. Assuming of course that the Absalon class performs as desired when it enters service in 2008 of course.

As for the LCS... IIRC it's base price is US$300 mil with a main armament of a 57mm gun... I don't doubt it's fast, but I'm not sure how well it would perform as a patrol ship once outside of littoral waters. IMV it makes sense for the US since it would be intended to operate in close waters near hostile shores. Other nations likely wouldn't get as much benefit since they likely would prefer to engage further out from their shores.

-Cheers

 

[alexsa]

I'd just as soon take the "plug & pray" (opps sorry that was a Microsoft thing...)

A bit of truth in that slip

As for the LCS... IIRC it's base price is US$300 mil with a main armament of a 57mm gun... I don't doubt it's fast, but I'm not sure how well it would perform as a patrol ship once outside of littoral waters. IMV it makes sense for the US since it would be intended to operate in close waters near hostile shores. Other nations likely wouldn't get as much benefit since they likely would prefer to engage further out from their shores.

-Cheers

In rough conditions this thing would be a liability. It is also not much of and escort. For the money we have the litorial side we wouel be better off using air assets and missiles. I don't think we could afford the luxuary of a purpose built LCS. Mind you I don't think the US can either judging by the cost overruns.

 

[KIJ]

I'd just as soon take the "plug & pray" (opps sorry that was a Microsoft thing...) concept from the Standard Flex 300 which IIRC lead to the development of the Absalon... I think the containerized weapon system concept would be a good one for different navies to adopt. And as has been mentioned, an Absalon-style vessel would likely do well in smaller navies that have a number of different roles to fufil but can't afford specialized ships for each task. Assuming of course that the Absalon class performs as desired when it enters service in 2008 of course.

Bigger navies is interested as well. The US Defence Minister visited Denmark, to see this system in action - and his reactions were very positive towards this system.

If the wishes are there, I think it would be easy to combine the Absalon-class, with the weapon-systems from the coming Danish guided missile-fregates. As stated earlier in this thread by another user, they are sharing most of the design anyway.

 

[swerve]

I'd just as soon take the "plug & pray" (opps sorry that was a Microsoft thing...) concept from the Standard Flex 300 which IIRC lead to the development of the Absalon... I think the containerized weapon system concept would be a good one for different navies to adopt. And as has been mentioned, an Absalon-style vessel would likely do well in smaller navies that have a number of different roles to fufil but can't afford specialized ships for each task. Assuming of course that the Absalon class performs as desired when it enters service in 2008 of course.
...

-Cheers

They're in service now, though not fully operational. That's scheduled for 1st August this year.

http://www.navalhistory.dk/danish/SoevaernsNyt/2007/0422_Stoetteskibene.htm

 

[Sea Toby]

I think the Absalon class is too expensive for most small navies. This is the reason why Ireland is looking at a MEKO 200 MRV and New Zealand chose a converted small ferry design.

 

[Todjaeger]

I think the Absalon class is too expensive for most small navies. This is the reason why Ireland is looking at a MEKO 200 MRV and New Zealand chose a converted small ferry design.

Remember though that the Absalon also has combat roles, unlike the HMNZS Canterbury MRV. That is much more akin to a transport or LPA and was built to commercial instead of milspec. Depending on the fitout of a MEKO 200 MRV for Ireland, then that might offer similiar types of service, though likely without the advantage of swapable weapon systems.

-Cheers

 

[Grand Danois]

Below is a link to a gallery with pics from the ongoing DANEX07 exercise. Good pictures with lots of detail and also of how the CB90 are deployed from Absalon.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v252/hvidtfeldt/Danex07/

A guy named Hvidtfeldt shot them.

The vessels are visiting Copenhagen and have open ship tomorrow. But I won't have the time to go there.

 

[Tasman]

Below is a link to a gallery with pics from the ongoing DANEX07 exercise. Good pictures with lots of detail and also of how the CB90 are deployed from Absalon.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v252/hvidtfeldt/Danex07/

A guy named Hvidtfeldt shot them.

The vessels are visiting Copenhagen and have open ship tomorrow. But I won't have the time to go there.

Interesting pics GD. I was especially interested in the photos of the Millenium Gun and the arrangements to hoist boats into the stern opening. This seems to be a similar arrangement to that planned for the GD LCS.

Tas