everyones talking about deserts well i have lived in one too i lived in Riyadh, capital of Saudi. a mountainous region but its in the middle of the the Dam Desert land. there are no lakes no rivers nothing. water is more expensive then Petrol. and there used to be desert storms, and they were terrifying in nature has anyone ever seen an ARAB desert storm i think someone can dye in those conditions there are tons and tons of SAND blowing in the air you can't literally see your own front porch which happens to be a few meters away. its like when you look out side your house there is no sky there are no building just SAND REDISH yellowish sand!! (during a desert storm of cource its a fully developed city with nice sky scrapers)
Which is the World's Best Tank??
- Thread starter Red aRRow
- Start date
- Status
Deltared075
New Member
Well, these machines never face each other since been produce..
All spec only on paper, how about you guys organize a deathmatch for them and then we know which beast is the best! agree?
All spec only on paper, how about you guys organize a deathmatch for them and then we know which beast is the best! agree?
Only 4 of them have seen battle. Only 2 of them have been involved in tank on tank combat.Deltared075 said:
Platform on platform comparisons are absolutely meaningless as parochialism tends to take primacy over logic.
If you are going to be logical and bring in real world parameters all you will do in here is get people over excited.
No, clearly untrue, see above. 4 of those tanks have seen combat, 2 have been theatre used, and 2 have been involved in meeting engagements. The rest are paper specs until they turn their wheels in combat and fire their guns in anger.
Deltared075
New Member
You said 2 tanks fought tank on tank?
which 2? which one win?
which 2? which one win?
mysterious
New Member
Its Abrams and Merkava I think.
Meeting engagements: M1, Chally2, Merkava, LeclercDeltared075 said:
Engaged by MBT main gun, M1, Chally 1, 2
Theatre engagements, M1, Chally 2
Both M1 and Chally 2 have been engaged in the frontal aspect and survived a sub 1000m main gun attack
M1 and Chally2 have both been engaged within 400m by MBT's bearing 125mm main guns and survived.
None of the M1's and Chally 2's engaged by OPFOR MBT's were disabled by other MBT's. In one instance a Chally2 has taken on 6 T-72's at sub 1000m and killed or mobility killed all 6 tanks in under 2 mins - this was while under sustained fire.
Deltared075
New Member
The 125mm main gun not the main point to destroy a modern tank, but it ammunition. Maybe their use the wrong ammunition? or they dun have better ammunition to penetrate the tank?
The 125 was developed by Russia as a counter to the 120 Rheinmetal (and derivatives) as they could not get the same "punch weight" with a same size round.Deltared075 said:
and believe me, the T's were using the right rounds to kill a tank. They just haven't managed to successfully kill a DU armoured or Chobham/Dorchester armoured tank.
The Chally2 is considered the "hardest" tank in the world. The M1 with DU round is rated similar to a Leo2A6
There's a quality difference at play here.
Deltared075
New Member
But the deathmatch i mean was between these 3rd generation tank! not with the 2nd genaration tank like t72
There is camera footage, but AFAIK it's still classified. I've tried to get a lead on who might have it but no luck to date.WebMaster said:
The UK MOD is pretty tight on stuff like this.
You need to carefully read the thread responses. If the strongest armoured vehicles in the world currently are Chobham/Dorchester or DU armoured MBT's and they have taken on a full frontal strike at sub 1000m and a sub 400m range then thats a pretty strong testimony.Deltared075 said:
Did you want the US or Uk MBT's to shoot at the French to prove a point?
A full strike be it blue on blue or blue on red, still constitutes a real and valid example of the effectiveness of armour.
The only tank with a stronger frontal aspect is the Merkava 4, and thats due to it's layout rather than armour type/layer
btw, the M1, Chally2, Merkava, Leclerc are Gen 4, not Gen 3
Deltared075
New Member
Well, then we never know which tank the best....
Revival_786
New Member
Ok... 6 T-72's... I gotta see that in action
Did you actually read and understand anything of which was posted??Deltared075 said:
I am beginning to wonder whether you have understood anything that has been posted in response. If you don't understand the answers then ask, otherwise it looks as though you are being deliberately obtuse.
Hey. I am chinese and this is my first time been here,so hello to you all.
As for the the topic as Which tank is the world´s bast tank,I have to say it be the US M1A2. Is have very good balance firepower,speed and armord.
This list don¨s not have the japanise Type 90. It and the Israel Markava IV was vote in chinese magazine(Weapon mafazine)the best armord tank in the world. I think it sould have been in your list.
I like very much our own type 99,but I think it well take 2 Type99 to destory one M1A2(if it´s a typical coldwar scenario,the tanks meet each other in european openland).
As for Pakistan Al-Khalid,I am so sorry to say all the info which I have read(from Finland and from Chinese BBS),it was believe to be better the T-72,but not better then the type99 or russian T-90, which I think is better the type98. Is´t that why Pakistan army bought T-80U?
The India Arjun MBT,was as chinese say a "many counter build MBT(they buy every thing from other counter)". Did India army give it up? Or did the project still going on? If it is still on going,then I think they need move fast as Your AL-khilid is ready and chinese Type 99 is also ready.
Most the info which I get is from site like:miiltary.china.com,FAS....
As for the the topic as Which tank is the world´s bast tank,I have to say it be the US M1A2. Is have very good balance firepower,speed and armord.
This list don¨s not have the japanise Type 90. It and the Israel Markava IV was vote in chinese magazine(Weapon mafazine)the best armord tank in the world. I think it sould have been in your list.
I like very much our own type 99,but I think it well take 2 Type99 to destory one M1A2(if it´s a typical coldwar scenario,the tanks meet each other in european openland).
As for Pakistan Al-Khalid,I am so sorry to say all the info which I have read(from Finland and from Chinese BBS),it was believe to be better the T-72,but not better then the type99 or russian T-90, which I think is better the type98. Is´t that why Pakistan army bought T-80U?
The India Arjun MBT,was as chinese say a "many counter build MBT(they buy every thing from other counter)". Did India army give it up? Or did the project still going on? If it is still on going,then I think they need move fast as Your AL-khilid is ready and chinese Type 99 is also ready.
Most the info which I get is from site like:miiltary.china.com,FAS....
Deltared075
New Member
Did you want the US or Uk MBT's to shoot at the French to prove a point?
[/quote]
Why not?
[/quote]
Why not?
The Alkhalids are the One step up a new generation Tank its been built mainly by the Ukrainians, i don't see how it can't be as good as the Russian T90 variant which is an equal to Ukrain. Please people there is soemthing people miss out they call it pakistani Tank well relay it is but pakistan only worked with the Ukrainians and paid for all the R&D and production cost the T80U were bought to modernize the Army tanks, to fill the Gapp and i think it was a contract to actually get the Ukrainians help Pakistan with the The Alkhalids, when i look at the Alkhalid specs i don't see a T72 i see a newly built Tank. i don't think the T72 has a a modular Composite Armor or Explosive reactive amour or a 128 mm Main Gun. or a onbord mission computer night vision etc or a Auto target acquisitions computer. or any other new generation tank attributes, the Chinese t99 has problems that are not in the Alkhalids these are both similar Tanks they call it patato and the other call it pattao !! but the deficiency in the Type 99 has to be the Engine, if its chinese made i know the chinese were having problems with engines, the pakistani Tanks have ukrainian designed engines that are better then the Russian designed.Proteus said:
Al khalids are designed to operate in the most extreme climates , thats largely due to the fact that Pakistan has a climate that happens to be extreme and different. the Baloach Desert where its realy Hot and the Northern areas where its snowy and really chilly. so the design parameters for the vehicles were given to the Design team to Produce a tank that could operate in these conditions, the desert war fare is important for Pakistan as Tank battles usually occur near Rajistan Borders its a very fine sand, desert really hot !! and the saudis have already evaluated the Al khalids and they want to buyem but they are waiting till they can resolve there budgetary shortfalls.
Turkey has shown an interest in Buying or jointly producing the Alkhalid with Pakistan, i think they were evaluating the possibility of an upgrade on there old Abrams, they were going ot contract the Israelis for the Job but i think that got canceled for some reason, i would say just buy new ones it would surely be cost effective. Pakistan has never had a problem giving technology to Turkey Pakistan did give Turkey the tech to make cluster missiles when the Americans refused to supply them.
I consider the most balanced tank to be Leopard 2A6, not M1A2.Proteus said:
And about Type 99 taking on M1A2, that depends on the scenario. If both tanks fire at each other at the range of 2000 meters it would blow a hole in both. Apparently Type 99 might have the upper hand when it is about 5 to 4 km from M1A2, because it can successfully engage it with ATGM and laser(i have no idea how effective it is). But Type 99 lacks many protection features on western tanks, for example, there is a gap between the turret and hull in the front, if it is hit then the whole turrets might get blown off. It also lacks armor that seperates the crew from ammunition and fuel, which is bad for the survival of the crew in case the hull armor is penetrated.
as for Al-Khalid, it is developed from chinese Type 90, which is developed from T-72 aquired from chinese allies in the middle east in 1980's. The chinese themselves did not want Type 90 because of the poor performance, but sold it to Pakistan in the mid-1990's. Pakistan enhanced the original Type 90 with some asistances from Ukraine and Al-Khalid was developed. It is highly doubtful if it can match the Type 99 in terms of armor and firepower.
And no the indians did not gave up on the Arjun. Even though the original prototypes did not met the requirement, Indian will not give it up. A very simple reason really, India wants to be able to produce its own modern tanks, and Arjun gave them many experiences. I believe the new and improved Arjun MK2 will be a very fierce opponent for the Pak T-80U.
Ok path finder i think we're in disagreement!!, granted the Alkhalids could of been based on something the chinese found unacceptable to induct, but the Ukrainians do build equivalent Tanks to there Neighbor Russia, i hardly think the same chinese type 90 amour tech was used in the construction of the alkhalids, Pak Army would not put there people in something that might just get blown up its a relatively small professional army, granted it has some or many lackings but its not an Army that compensates on security of its Soldiers!! the Ukrainians use other countries to Fund R&D in exchange they gains new tech and alot of Cash!! the chinese have helped the Pakistanis alot in actually providing the base to produce numerous equipments in all three services, but looking at this case i would say the Alkhalids did go through a pritty much a comprehensive and Long development cycle with the Ukrainians the Armor may be similar to the T-80u but the Technology inside the Tank is brand spanking new, and again the equipments inside originated from china, and i hardly think something that is a piece of rejected "crap" (apologies') can be put up for sale and gain so much attention from prospect-full buyers.
The alkhalid does not have a poor performance its engine is Ukrainian designed for harsh weathers like desert its mobility is adequate for deserts conditions, it has been tested and trial'd extensively it has been demonstrated and evaluated by a number of Armies, your assertions about the poor performance based on its ancestor's performance is inaccurate, as i have mentioned above its a completly diffent platform based on a Ukrainian Designs,
The alkhalid does not have a poor performance its engine is Ukrainian designed for harsh weathers like desert its mobility is adequate for deserts conditions, it has been tested and trial'd extensively it has been demonstrated and evaluated by a number of Armies, your assertions about the poor performance based on its ancestor's performance is inaccurate, as i have mentioned above its a completly diffent platform based on a Ukrainian Designs,
- Status