weasel1962
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Thailand selects Gripen and Erieye
- Thread starter jaffo4011
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Huh!! Didn't know that the current Thai prsident is muslim? or are you being sarcastic.... hint Pakistan.
Our government have supported dictators and sold weapons to them, heck the whole middle east is run by dictators..... also remember Chile and Argentina. Anywho, I think we have vested interest in the region and we should support the Thai people and it's government ( I think we already do). I don't see ourselves denying the sale of F-16 to Thailand, I think there were some other reason for it ........
radiosilence
jints
Are your sure it was Block 60? AFAIK, Thailand express interest in the Block 50/52.
Doesn't the US have to get approval from the UAE first before they sell the Block 60/62 to another country seeing as they paid for the development of the Block 60/62? And also wouldn't that mean that the UAE gets money out of it?
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Hi, mate.
This deal will be slipted into 2 phases. First phase is 6 Gripens and 1 ERIEYE (With Saab 340, I believe), Second phase is another 6 Gripens, 1 ERIEYE, and 1 Saab 340 for, training and transport propose. It's also include RBS-15, support, training, spare part.
ERIEYE is not free. It's just a discount package.
US never offer Block 60. They offer Block 50/52+ for us.
Su-30MKIT.....I don't believe that RTAF should goes for the plane. OK it's a best jet in our 3 choices. But RTAF is considers NATO-oriented air force, and it's damn expensive to operate.
This deal will be slipted into 2 phases. First phase is 6 Gripens and 1 ERIEYE (With Saab 340, I believe), Second phase is another 6 Gripens, 1 ERIEYE, and 1 Saab 340 for, training and transport propose. It's also include RBS-15, support, training, spare part.
ERIEYE is not free. It's just a discount package.
US never offer Block 60. They offer Block 50/52+ for us.
Su-30MKIT.....I don't believe that RTAF should goes for the plane. OK it's a best jet in our 3 choices. But RTAF is considers NATO-oriented air force, and it's damn expensive to operate.
weasel1962
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Thailand has never had a president. It has a king.
The head of the army until a few weeks ago, & acting prime minister for a while after the coup, is a Muslim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonthi_Boonratklin
radiosilence
jints
Gripenator
Banned Member
So what?
An Erieye/Gripen combination with the Meteor BVRAAM (IOC 2010) will more than compensate for the (18) Su-30MKM in RMAF service. Its the systems that count-the Erieye has a detection range @ 350km, assuming variables such as a hostile electronic warfare environment eg. heavy radar clutter & low target altitudes (Malaysia does not possess any significant EW capability)
that is enough for an accompanying Gripen to recieve the feed and fire off up to two Meteors (range 100+km) before the -30MKM can squeeze off a R-77 in return (range 90-100km, type delivered to RMAF) as the RMAF is lacking AWACS and will likely lack for a further 8-10 years given budgetary constraints and the pressing need to induct a tactical lift capability BEFORE any AWACS.
Do the math. The expenditure of even 5-6 Meteors per Sukhoi is a bargain.
LoL, I agreed that gripen + Erieye is a decent combination of air power. But Meteor is not going to be ready in near future, and even it reach the stage, AMRAAM and AA-12 too, will have the same standards. Note that advertisement don't describe the world as a whole, they only lead you to believe they are the only one.
EWs are always over estimated by military fans. The "facts" or "glory" of them were obtain through obsolate radars. Malaysian too is aware of the flaw, therefore new radars were ordered, MKM also fitted with EW pods. And military is about balancing, when Thai really stamp their contract, Malaysian will have their respond.
BTW, RMK9 gona end soon. According to budget of RMK9, RMK10 will have sufficient funding for AWACS.
weasel1962
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AIR FORCE / PROCUREMENT OF GRIPEN FIGHTERS
Chalit insists purchase of Swedish jets appropriate, also the best deal
WASSANA NANUAM
Air force chief ACM Chalit Phukphasuk insisted yesterday the bid to purchase Saab Gripen jet fighters from Sweden was appropriate, saying the Swedish government offered the best deal.
He also said the jets' capacities suit geographical aspects in the deep South, where they would be deployed.
The cabinet on Tuesday approved the air force's plan to buy 12 Gripen multi-role fighters from Sweden at a cost of 34.4 billion baht.
ACM Chalit said before seeking approval from the cabinet the air force had appointed a committee to manage the procurement of new jet fighters, intended to replace its aging American-made F-5E fighters.
Before finally choosing the Gripen jets, the committee considered three jet fighter models in total. The two other models were the American-made F16 C/D and the Russian-made SU 30 MK.
Under the air force's selection criteria, the jets must be equipped with advanced technology with the potential for future upgrades. The technology must be comparable or no less sophisticated than those jet fighters used or to be purchased by governments in neighbouring countries, said ACM Chalit.
The jets must also suit the geographical aspects of military operations in the South, where the jets would be deployed over Thai territorial waters, both in the Andaman Sea and the Gulf of Thailand.
Besides, he said the air force must be able to develop its own control over future aircraft maintenance.
ACM Chalit said that the Burmese junta had bought F16 jets but could not get them off the ground at the moment due to sanctions imposed by the US.
In addition, the aircraft must suit the air force's needs in its attempt to develop a jet fighter command and control system and also a warning system for its future defence operations, he said.
ACM Chalit said Sweden had been more generous in its offer than the US and Russia in attempting to meet all the air force's procurement criteria.
Besides giving five additional aircraft for free, the producer of the Gripen jets also agreed to give the air force confidential details on the operations of the fighters called ''source code data'' that enables the air force to upgrade the defence capacity of the aircraft on its own in the future.
Scholarships for air force technicians to be trained exclusively in the maintenance of Gripen fighters were also offered, he said, adding that the US and Russia had not made such offers.
Gripen-JAS 39C/D aircraft are small jet fighters that are more technologically advanced than the US-made F16 fighters, he added.
ACM Chalit said Sweden would deliver Gripen jet fighters to the air force three years after the procurement contract is signed. Then, air force pilots would need about a year's training to pilot them.
BangkokPost
Chalit insists purchase of Swedish jets appropriate, also the best deal
WASSANA NANUAM
Air force chief ACM Chalit Phukphasuk insisted yesterday the bid to purchase Saab Gripen jet fighters from Sweden was appropriate, saying the Swedish government offered the best deal.
He also said the jets' capacities suit geographical aspects in the deep South, where they would be deployed.
The cabinet on Tuesday approved the air force's plan to buy 12 Gripen multi-role fighters from Sweden at a cost of 34.4 billion baht.
ACM Chalit said before seeking approval from the cabinet the air force had appointed a committee to manage the procurement of new jet fighters, intended to replace its aging American-made F-5E fighters.
Before finally choosing the Gripen jets, the committee considered three jet fighter models in total. The two other models were the American-made F16 C/D and the Russian-made SU 30 MK.
Under the air force's selection criteria, the jets must be equipped with advanced technology with the potential for future upgrades. The technology must be comparable or no less sophisticated than those jet fighters used or to be purchased by governments in neighbouring countries, said ACM Chalit.
The jets must also suit the geographical aspects of military operations in the South, where the jets would be deployed over Thai territorial waters, both in the Andaman Sea and the Gulf of Thailand.
Besides, he said the air force must be able to develop its own control over future aircraft maintenance.
ACM Chalit said that the Burmese junta had bought F16 jets but could not get them off the ground at the moment due to sanctions imposed by the US.
In addition, the aircraft must suit the air force's needs in its attempt to develop a jet fighter command and control system and also a warning system for its future defence operations, he said.
ACM Chalit said Sweden had been more generous in its offer than the US and Russia in attempting to meet all the air force's procurement criteria.
Besides giving five additional aircraft for free, the producer of the Gripen jets also agreed to give the air force confidential details on the operations of the fighters called ''source code data'' that enables the air force to upgrade the defence capacity of the aircraft on its own in the future.
Scholarships for air force technicians to be trained exclusively in the maintenance of Gripen fighters were also offered, he said, adding that the US and Russia had not made such offers.
Gripen-JAS 39C/D aircraft are small jet fighters that are more technologically advanced than the US-made F16 fighters, he added.
ACM Chalit said Sweden would deliver Gripen jet fighters to the air force three years after the procurement contract is signed. Then, air force pilots would need about a year's training to pilot them.
BangkokPost
RTAF Whitebook: The Technology of Balance
RTAF also release the official whitebook to explane and clearify its Gripen program. It's name is "The technology of Balance".
It's in Thai, by the way. And I can not post the URL.
I will translate some interest part from the whitebook.
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One of the most interesting part of "The technology of Balance" is page 44 (Thai worte ๔๔) in Appendix II
Why RTAF don't opts for more F-16s or switch to Su30
The document said about the specification requirement of this program which you can finds it in the news above. And they said waht they think about each model
And the RTAF opinion.
- Su-30MK : Large jet, high payload. Suitable for the large geography like Russia. Flanker is big, which means its RCS is high. RTAF need to buy all new support and weapon and facility like building, hangar, maintainance site. The fuel consumption is very high. Structure, engine has a short life cycle. Life cycle cost is highest in these 3 models.
- F-16C/D: The medium multi-role jet. Capable for air-to-air and air-to-ground. Fuel comsumption is medium. Able to use the support facility of current F-16A/B. Technicians are very familar with the system. But the maintainance and usage has some limitation. Technology transfer also limit, and RTAF can procures only some type of weapon.
- JAS-39C/D Gripen: The performance is equal to another 4.5 generation fighter. Design for defence and counter the Warsaw Pact nation during the cold war. Weapon system and support is NATO standard. More flexible and suitable for the required geography. The main offer is consists of aircraft, AWE&C, technology transfer, support, and training.
They also mention in another part that Sweden has silimar geography compared to Southern Thailand, and the long good relationship between both countries and its Royal Family is also taken into consideration.
RTAF also release the official whitebook to explane and clearify its Gripen program. It's name is "The technology of Balance".
It's in Thai, by the way. And I can not post the URL.
I will translate some interest part from the whitebook.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the most interesting part of "The technology of Balance" is page 44 (Thai worte ๔๔) in Appendix II
Why RTAF don't opts for more F-16s or switch to Su30
The document said about the specification requirement of this program which you can finds it in the news above. And they said waht they think about each model
And the RTAF opinion.
- Su-30MK : Large jet, high payload. Suitable for the large geography like Russia. Flanker is big, which means its RCS is high. RTAF need to buy all new support and weapon and facility like building, hangar, maintainance site. The fuel consumption is very high. Structure, engine has a short life cycle. Life cycle cost is highest in these 3 models.
- F-16C/D: The medium multi-role jet. Capable for air-to-air and air-to-ground. Fuel comsumption is medium. Able to use the support facility of current F-16A/B. Technicians are very familar with the system. But the maintainance and usage has some limitation. Technology transfer also limit, and RTAF can procures only some type of weapon.
- JAS-39C/D Gripen: The performance is equal to another 4.5 generation fighter. Design for defence and counter the Warsaw Pact nation during the cold war. Weapon system and support is NATO standard. More flexible and suitable for the required geography. The main offer is consists of aircraft, AWE&C, technology transfer, support, and training.
They also mention in another part that Sweden has silimar geography compared to Southern Thailand, and the long good relationship between both countries and its Royal Family is also taken into consideration.
radiosilence
jints
I will post the full article, for some reason the link is not working. IF you would like to verify it, go on the Bangkok post website and search the archives. The article appears on the front page of October 18, 2007.
i just wanna correct you statement dude
: Malaysia will recieve the eyerie and the super hornet in the RMK 10 plans.[2010-2015]
by the way pls show me your source that the Thailand forces has the METEOR missle.
PEACE
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Maybe. IF they can find the funding. I believe the RMAF chief last year stated that a second Squadron of SU-30's was the more pressing priority...i just wanna correct you statement dude
Malaysia will recieve the eyerie and the super hornet in the RMK 10 plans.[2010-2015]
by the way pls show me your source that the Thailand forces has the METEOR missle.
PEACE
Gripenator never said Thailand HAS the Meteor missile. Notice he said, IOC 2010? Initial operating capability - 2010. Obviously Thailand intends to circumvent the US's restriction on supply AMRAAM by acquiring Meteor to arm it's Gripens with a BVR missile...
Gripenator
Banned Member
Depends which service you ask.
The flyboys apparently want more Su-30MKMs for show and because they can do fancy maneuvers such as the Pugachev's Cobra etc
But the MA is pressing for an tactical airlift capability which those 4 A400s on order are meant to fill and a recent MOD assessment (June 2007) of the Malaysian Armed Forces has concluded that more emphasis needs to be placed on training and logistics rather than just acquisition-together with budgetary constraints stemming from the Kedah OPV project ($2.7bn overbudget with no units delivered) plus the c.900million urgent utility helo replacement means that no more Su-30s are likely to be delivered in the 2008-2012/15 time frame.
Gripenator
Banned Member
errrr.....NO.i just wanna correct you statement dude
Malaysia will recieve the eyerie and the super hornet in the RMK 10 plans.[2010-2015]
PEACE
In light of what I have already posted and the fact that the US won't give the Malaysians access to critical "design information" and source codes
READ: APG-79-the planned purchase of Super Hornets has stalled at the negotiation stage and according to industry sources-not going to progress any further-in any case, the RMAF seem to have concluded that the Su-30MKM is preferable, reasons unknown.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Don't mistake me, I agree entirely with this POV. Professional mastery is FAR more important than flashy new equipment, IMHO. The ability to use what you have to your utmost ability is always more important.Depends which service you ask.
The flyboys apparently want more Su-30MKMs for show and because they can do fancy maneuvers such as the Pugachev's Cobra etc
But the MA is pressing for an tactical airlift capability which those 4 A400s on order are meant to fill and a recent MOD assessment (June 2007) of the Malaysian Armed Forces has concluded that more emphasis needs to be placed on training and logistics rather than just acquisition-together with budgetary constraints stemming from the Kedah OPV project ($2.7bn overbudget with no units delivered) plus the c.900million urgent utility helo replacement means that no more Su-30s are likely to be delivered in the 2008-2012/15 time frame.
Quality as opposed to quantity has always proved more important. Professionals concentrate on logistics, whilst amateurs concentrate on platforms...
However, I did read the chief of RMAF in his priorities for his fighter force, is keen on a second Sukhoi squadron, prior to the Super Hornets and AWACS capability, whatever that may turn out to be...
Agreed with AG here. It is obvious the MiG-29Ns will not last until the mid of next decade. Complements for the SUs will probably be less chance of more SUs if only they want a 3 MRCA sqd formation, IMO, Hornet has a great chance, MiG-35 too a strong contender for the second sqd of MRCA. While OPV issue, 2 were commissioned, 2 more will sea trial soon, expected to be commissioned by the mid of 08 and (IMPOV) remainder will be in service by mid of 09.Depends which service you ask.
The flyboys apparently want more Su-30MKMs for show and because they can do fancy maneuvers such as the Pugachev's Cobra etc
But the MA is pressing for an tactical airlift capability which those 4 A400s on order are meant to fill and a recent MOD assessment (June 2007) of the Malaysian Armed Forces has concluded that more emphasis needs to be placed on training and logistics rather than just acquisition-together with budgetary constraints stemming from the Kedah OPV project ($2.7bn overbudget with no units delivered) plus the c.900million urgent utility helo replacement means that no more Su-30s are likely to be delivered in the 2008-2012/15 time frame.
Actually All SEA countries face the same issue after mid 90s. Assets from early 80s were aging and need replacement. Unfortunately Economy crisis struck them in 1997 caused modernization to be delay till the 21st century. Take MA for example, "modernization" refers not only "enhance", but their urgent need is to replace aging assets. 4 A400Ms, 18 Su-30MKMs and Trainers are just a beginning of a massive replacement programme. If Economy is stable, MAF will have new assets for every year in present-2015 time frame. Thai too will do about the same thing.