Compare capabilities and data - LCA & JF-17
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India is negotiating
Six Scorpene submarines for the navy for Rs 9,000 crore.
126 Mirage 2000-5 multi-role fighter jets for IAF for Rs 31,500 crore.
24 Eurocopter Cougar helicopters for navy for Rs 1,080 crore.
100 Thales radars for the IAF for Rs 225 crore.
Total = 41,000 Cr which is approx near about 7 or 8 billions US dollers , will french loose this for getting only few millions of pak money and loose fture market?
maybe this topic should be locked down. we already seen majority of ppl agree FC-1 is the better aircraft in the poll, no need for further discussion and off-topic talks.Indianguy said:
man!! thats a big shoping list, but i fail to see why IAF wan'ts Mir 2005 in that large number wouldn't 2000 specs just do the job after all there are SU-30 to the top end jobs !! and LCA can fill defensive combat role!Indianguy said:
good idea Path finder this topic is almost over but it wouldn't hurt to keep it active till the end of June about 30th june, when hopefully PAF will get out with there Plans for news Purchases !!
Sorry Indian Guy & other people..I guess I got bit out of way...patriotism u c....no more quarels. I think its guys like us who start quarels in short term & our country ends up in the war in long term.
Any ways i think the poll has done its job...lets ask some thin else now.
Any ways i think the poll has done its job...lets ask some thin else now.
Well , while SU plans will eb handle all air and ground missions , the Mirage will be Indian Strategic Air Force - wit some squarden armed with nukes and while other will be dummy and will be come under central Air command. This is the lines of US , So the purchasing of these are are fr strategic air force
The only reason India is trying to procure Mirage 200OVs is because it has to meet its requirement of 40 squadrons to effectively defend against China or Pakistan or both.Mirage 2000V was chosen over Rafale as the latter is not suited to India[in performance as well as cost].
What most people tend to forget is that the real threat to India is from China AND not by Pakistan[which is a dead force & is finding problems with finding advanced aircrafts].
By the way as a neutral,I think the LCA is much better than the FC-1.I know it is discussed to death over here but the poll doesn't seem convincing.If the two aircrafts are judged by experts,it will end up in 7:3 in favour of the LCA.Also one thing about the BVR capability.......LCA will have ASTRA BVRAAM which has a range of over 100 Km[more than a Pakistani F-16 A/B].Also,the chinese have reportedly developed FC-1 as a replacement for the aircrafts of third world countries[it is clearly stated in Sinodefence.com{a chinese site}] Also,the indian think-thank is also considering the posibility os fittin the lethal BRAHMOS[the world'd first supersonic cruise missile,an INDO-RUSSIAN venture
]on the LCA[& the MKIs] which certainly betters it strike capability.
So,I think the LCA is far superior to its counterpart.[BTW,sorry if i offended anyone]
What most people tend to forget is that the real threat to India is from China AND not by Pakistan[which is a dead force & is finding problems with finding advanced aircrafts].
By the way as a neutral,I think the LCA is much better than the FC-1.I know it is discussed to death over here but the poll doesn't seem convincing.If the two aircrafts are judged by experts,it will end up in 7:3 in favour of the LCA.Also one thing about the BVR capability.......LCA will have ASTRA BVRAAM which has a range of over 100 Km[more than a Pakistani F-16 A/B].Also,the chinese have reportedly developed FC-1 as a replacement for the aircrafts of third world countries[it is clearly stated in Sinodefence.com{a chinese site}] Also,the indian think-thank is also considering the posibility os fittin the lethal BRAHMOS[the world'd first supersonic cruise missile,an INDO-RUSSIAN venture
]on the LCA[& the MKIs] which certainly betters it strike capability.So,I think the LCA is far superior to its counterpart.[BTW,sorry if i offended anyone]
Lol, Jacob, the Brahmos is not exactly a small package!
Consider: The LCA has a dry weight of 5,500kg, and a max takeoff weight of 8,500kg. A Brahmos weighs 3,000kg. Doesn't leave a lot left for fuel, defensive weapons, ew pods, etc. does it?
The SU-30's possibly (and that is still a squeeze, just because of the size), but the LCA? Don't hold your breath.
Consider: The LCA has a dry weight of 5,500kg, and a max takeoff weight of 8,500kg. A Brahmos weighs 3,000kg. Doesn't leave a lot left for fuel, defensive weapons, ew pods, etc. does it?
The SU-30's possibly (and that is still a squeeze, just because of the size), but the LCA? Don't hold your breath.
Jacob the FC-1 is different to the JF-17, being an Israeli (i think, apologize if your not), you must appreciate the difference when Technology is employed effectively on classic platforms such as F-16, you pick out an F-16 block 15 and compare it with the F-16I or compare it with the F-16U E/F(not a fare comparison, structural and Electric mod) but by simply employing newer technologies you can increase and update the effectiveness of a platform, the Pakistani JF-17 would definitely have French Pakistani Avionics which are most likely built form Off the shelf technology, similar to the newer F-16. i think it has a significant amount of French input as it would replace the french updated Mirage 3 rose. so no one can end up estimateing what the JF-17 would be capable off. there are too many variable such as would the JF-17 carry chinese weaponry or french. according to AFM it will carry a great deal of French weaponry .
The IAF won't install a 3,000 kg Brahmos on the LCA.A Brahmos variant for the Indian & the russian aircrafts is under development.highsea said:Lol, Jacob, the Brahmos is not exactly a small package!
Consider: The LCA has a dry weight of 5,500kg, and a max takeoff weight of 8,500kg. A Brahmos weighs 3,000kg. Doesn't leave a lot left for fuel, defensive weapons, ew pods, etc. does it?
The SU-30's possibly (and that is still a squeeze, just because of the size), but the LCA? Don't hold your breath.
it will have slightly lesser range but still be supersonic with lethal capabilities
I'd be interested in seeing the source for that comment. I've studied the P-800/Yakhont/Brahmos for some time, and I don't recall any material about a short ranged version.Jacob said:
India actually wants to extend the range. There are other supersonics that can be used for short range work.
So, if you can provide some links it would be appreciated.
actually jacob is referring to what dr.sivanthu pillai the director of brahmops stated in a press interviev about a lighter wight brahmos to be tested in 2007.dont know about the weight though ,but the weight is likely to be around 2000kgs. the lca's max weapon load capacity is 4000tons.
Jacobs comment was about a lesser ranged model - and I find that hard to believe when the intent is to have a longer ranged model. An extended range version has always been of primary interest - there is no benefit in shortening the range when other better missiles are available already.aaaditya said:
As for reducing the weighjt of the missile by 33% - that seems very unrealistic. I'd be interested in seeing the Dr's direct comments from a referenced article. It also not a logical situation to reduce a weapon system that is designed for an anti-shipping role to such a drastic figure.
Whatever weight savings might be achieved would certianly be unter balanced immediately by a need for a more powerful warhead - that is the design requirement of any anti-shipping system. If you haven't changed the yield value of the warhead - then the weight recovery is questionable. (IMHO)
So, confirmed references appreciated so that I can ensure that people aren't confusing what he's actually said.
I stand corrected on the max takeoff weight. The site I was looking at was incorrect.aaaditya said:
http://www.airtoaircombat.com/detail.asp?id=17
However, it is not 4000 tons, it is 4000kg. max external stores. Even so, this does not mean you can put it all on one hardpoint. That kind of weight has to be distributed between the wing and fuselage stations or you will bend the aircraft.
Besides that, if you look at a picture of the LCA, it is obvious that there is nowhere to hang a missile the size of the Brahmos, unless you want to stick it between the main gear and fly around with the gear down. The overall length of the AC is 43 feet, and a Brahmos is 25 feet long.
I'll believe the LCA will carry the Brahmos when I see it.
Conur completely - it just aint gonna happen on a small single engined LIF.highsea said:However, it is not 4000 tons, it is 4000kg. max external stores. Even so, this does not mean you can put it all on one hardpoint. That kind of weight has to be distributed between the wing and fuselage stations or you will bend the aircraft.
Besides that, if you look at a picture of the LCA, it is obvious that there is nowhere to hang a missile the size of the Brahmos, unless you want to stick it between the main gear and fly around with the gear down. The overall length of the AC is 43 feet, and a Brahmos is 25 feet long.
I'll believe the LCA will carry the Brahmos when I see it.
I'd want to see the statements the good Dr made to establish what was really said and in what context.
Jacob is got to be joking,Air-launched cersion of Brahmos can be launched by only Su-30MKI and some maritime aircraft.
Certainly LCA cannot carry Brahmos.
I read somewhere that even Air-launched brahmos will have nearly same weight and same Range becoz Su-30MKI can carry weapons of weight 8000kg and Brahmos is 3000kg.I can't provide u the source but i am searching for it.
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