The Ukrina is that Slava class cruiser. They were mentionning 700 million. I think that does not include any missiles and such. As I said, China is not likely to buy it. What kind of SAMs on 054A is a mystery. Everyone is speculating right now. You just need to wait for a few months to see.zoolander said:
China to build aircraft carrier
- Thread starter pshamim
- Start date
The near future of the PLAN will be the Type 93, Type 94, Yuan Class, Type 54a and weapons refitting for some destroyers. I cannot see a chinese carrier within 5 years. With china directing most of its money to subs, a carrier is not possible with the amount of capital directed at it.
chinas attitude to carriers can be closely identified with their current head of navy.zoolander said:
the former was pro carriers - the current is an ex submariner. the attitude and build rates for subs and ASW have changed with the change in leadership.
there are far too many other "gaps" in the PLAN platform mix to indicate that carriers are on the priority list.
even if a carrier was slipped today, it woul be at least 5 years before it achieved a decent work up status - and that assumes that other variables and platform mixes are in place (which they're not)
I wonder why the ASW capability in PLAN is still so pathetic even with such a head. On the issue of the carrier, the latest rumour is that PLAN has decided on the design of a carrier fighter. Supposedly, the work will be done by SAC with a lot of help from knaapo. I guess you can make your own judgement how far China is from fielding a carrier based on that.gf0012-aust said:
to zoolander:
the latest HQ-7 is actually China's best point defense SAM. So, the answer is no, China is not going to replace HQ-7 from the frigates/destroyers. In fact, many of the Ludas and 053 frigates just got the HQ-7 upgrade. The often talked about HQ-16 is not in service. I have no idea when it will be.
if you think the aaw of the PLAN is pityful, you should look at the asw. China still depends on anti sub rockets(or mortars i forgot wat they are called.). China badly need a anti-sub missile and some better submarine escorts. China needs to buy maybe a cruiser, a couple Uday cruiser, and make a nuclear attack sub comparible to the los angelas class.
Re china's new carrier project
from all my reasearch on the topic, I wouldn't be surprised if china's carrier project create a vessel that mirrors either the russian Kuznetsov carrier or the cancelled russian UL'Yanovsk. I also believe that the air wing would probably be a mix of Su-33's and Su-25's bought from Russia. It's weapon systems will probably include a 24 cell VLS for SSN-22 sunburn SSM and a SA KlimokADAM system 24-8 cell VLS) probably firing the Sa-6.:duel
from all my reasearch on the topic, I wouldn't be surprised if china's carrier project create a vessel that mirrors either the russian Kuznetsov carrier or the cancelled russian UL'Yanovsk. I also believe that the air wing would probably be a mix of Su-33's and Su-25's bought from Russia. It's weapon systems will probably include a 24 cell VLS for SSN-22 sunburn SSM and a SA KlimokADAM system 24-8 cell VLS) probably firing the Sa-6.:duel
yes, I did say that China needs to get Udaloy ASW destroyer. It needs to make something comparable to the late 668, but that takes time. It's obviously trying to do it.zoolander said:
su-25 is definitely not an option, su-33 is very likely, sunburn is not an option, the VLS version of Klinok is likely though.
China's new carrier
I was wondering that if the chinese do fallow through with their carrier program, would the Kuznetsov, the only russian carrier, be transfered along with its battle group to Vladivostok in order to dissuade the chinese from trying to invade siberia and taking control of the natural oil and gold deposits found there?:ar15
I was wondering that if the chinese do fallow through with their carrier program, would the Kuznetsov, the only russian carrier, be transfered along with its battle group to Vladivostok in order to dissuade the chinese from trying to invade siberia and taking control of the natural oil and gold deposits found there?:ar15
A few thoughts on about this matter:
China is already a huge buyer of steel if not the first in the world, media claims it's because of the Olympics and their new Dam. They sure get great prices but an Aircraft Carrier requires a respectable ammount of tonnes and I think from some standpoints it seems like a waste of money and much needed materials.
Without really powerful aircraft, an aircraft carrier is less of a strategic asset than an a tactical one. China has such aircraft but not navalised, they'd have to buy them from Russia if time is an issue, and even with them a single carrier or two project less force strategicaly than a decent fleet of submarines (which China is getting) A support carrier then? Just one?
There's more than one option at hand for recomissioning or buying of an already built carrier, and it seems a better choice than building one from scratch. However, Chinese engineers are bold these days, no one can be really sure if they didn't have a stored design from years ago.
And lastly, the only country that doesn't seem to be having real impediments with building new carriers is the US, France loves their CVN but they think it was way too expensive. UK teamed with France for their new ones, not nuclear and they're avoiding escalating costs as much as they can. Russia had to settle with one. Why should it be different with China? True, cash is flowing but it's better used in other stuff.
China is already a huge buyer of steel if not the first in the world, media claims it's because of the Olympics and their new Dam. They sure get great prices but an Aircraft Carrier requires a respectable ammount of tonnes and I think from some standpoints it seems like a waste of money and much needed materials.
Without really powerful aircraft, an aircraft carrier is less of a strategic asset than an a tactical one. China has such aircraft but not navalised, they'd have to buy them from Russia if time is an issue, and even with them a single carrier or two project less force strategicaly than a decent fleet of submarines (which China is getting) A support carrier then? Just one?
There's more than one option at hand for recomissioning or buying of an already built carrier, and it seems a better choice than building one from scratch. However, Chinese engineers are bold these days, no one can be really sure if they didn't have a stored design from years ago.
And lastly, the only country that doesn't seem to be having real impediments with building new carriers is the US, France loves their CVN but they think it was way too expensive. UK teamed with France for their new ones, not nuclear and they're avoiding escalating costs as much as they can. Russia had to settle with one. Why should it be different with China? True, cash is flowing but it's better used in other stuff.
number one china is not gonna get a carrier in a couple of years. They should try to get the surport ships ready for one. They to develop a 48-60 vls air defence ship. also a anti sub boat and also better anti mine warfare and etc.
The only carrier in the future is the Varieg which will be most likely a training boat.
excuse my spelling
The only carrier in the future is the Varieg which will be most likely a training boat.
excuse my spelling
I think , to build a carrierer is not a technical problem, but a political one !
At present , China's threaten theory are everwhere, everyear . Carrier is a offensive weapon, if we build it , what will it leave to other country?
----yes, the Chinese are stronger and stronger, they are comeing to attack us.
Anybody who can tell me how to tell a weapon is offensive or a defensive ?
We bulit nuclear bomb is not to attack any country ,but to prevent us form being attacked. And we have said :we'll not use nuclear weapons first in a war . Does any country who has nuclear bomb ,can say that ? the U.S.A? the RUSSIA ?the France ?.....
Many many people thind a country ,if he grow up , aggression must happen.
We are the country suffered much war . much slaughter, we don't want this happen again , we want peace.
maybe somebody will say: this guy's words just like their government saying.
seems he was indoctrinated heavily .
my answer is no ! that's the words from heart.
At present , China's threaten theory are everwhere, everyear . Carrier is a offensive weapon, if we build it , what will it leave to other country?
----yes, the Chinese are stronger and stronger, they are comeing to attack us.
Anybody who can tell me how to tell a weapon is offensive or a defensive ?
We bulit nuclear bomb is not to attack any country ,but to prevent us form being attacked. And we have said :we'll not use nuclear weapons first in a war . Does any country who has nuclear bomb ,can say that ? the U.S.A? the RUSSIA ?the France ?.....
Many many people thind a country ,if he grow up , aggression must happen.
We are the country suffered much war . much slaughter, we don't want this happen again , we want peace.
maybe somebody will say: this guy's words just like their government saying.
seems he was indoctrinated heavily .
my answer is no ! that's the words from heart.
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The varyag has no engines nor does it have propellors, and also its design has changed to mimic a bad take off of the nimitz to which the chinease government though highly helerious (so i was last told).
As for a new carrier id bet russia would be in on it a bit, also they have never built one by themselves, they dont have the air craft capible for carrier ops, and thier pilots are not trained to land on carriers.
So if we were looking to see a chinese carrier its a fair way off yet.
As for a new carrier id bet russia would be in on it a bit, also they have never built one by themselves, they dont have the air craft capible for carrier ops, and thier pilots are not trained to land on carriers.
So if we were looking to see a chinese carrier its a fair way off yet.
abramsteve
New Member
I thought the Russians operated, or at least did, navalised versions of the MIG-29 and even the SU-27(?)
china should not build a airplane carrier. It needs the surport ships first. I think they should built the new 54a frigate with the new point air defence system. This is badly needed to replace some of their antiques they still usin. They also need better submarine combat systems. more subs such as the yuan type 93s, and 94s, and also they should buy the license to Ka-31 helicopters. anti sub destroyers are also needed and anti sub missile is a must.
These system will significantly increase chiese naval capabilities. When china get to the point where they have a decent ssw and anti air abilties they should built a carrier. They shouldnt built a Nimitz size super carrier either. They should built amphi- carriers and a big one like the Varieg. The Varieg should be maintained and start restoring the damage done to the sturcture. I think the Varieg would be a good learning project but i dont see a chinese carrier in the next 2-3 years. Maybe in 2008 they will begin contruction
When you can protect your carrier built one. When you cant protect your carrier dont.
In the future, the J-10 might also serve as a carrier fighter. currently china is gearing up for war with japan, taiwan, or the US. they are not so worried about power projection so they are not jumpin on the air plane carrier band wagon.
These system will significantly increase chiese naval capabilities. When china get to the point where they have a decent ssw and anti air abilties they should built a carrier. They shouldnt built a Nimitz size super carrier either. They should built amphi- carriers and a big one like the Varieg. The Varieg should be maintained and start restoring the damage done to the sturcture. I think the Varieg would be a good learning project but i dont see a chinese carrier in the next 2-3 years. Maybe in 2008 they will begin contruction
When you can protect your carrier built one. When you cant protect your carrier dont.
In the future, the J-10 might also serve as a carrier fighter. currently china is gearing up for war with japan, taiwan, or the US. they are not so worried about power projection so they are not jumpin on the air plane carrier band wagon.
Those antiques as you put it are still able to do thier mission.
The varyag has never been 100% compleated, china doesnt have the training the know how the men nor equipment, to see through a new build carrier just yet.
2012 would be the earliest i would say, but only if they seek help from abroad.
As for the type 093 and 094 well let them get to sea properly first.
In a war with japan i dont think china will last its ageing ships and not very good tech will make them easy pray for the aegis ships of japan and the submarine's, not to mention japan is more skilled than china it trains more.
China has taken the soviet approach and sat everyone down in a classroom it doesnt teach much unlike japan where they get out there and do it.
The varyag has never been 100% compleated, china doesnt have the training the know how the men nor equipment, to see through a new build carrier just yet.
2012 would be the earliest i would say, but only if they seek help from abroad.
As for the type 093 and 094 well let them get to sea properly first.
In a war with japan i dont think china will last its ageing ships and not very good tech will make them easy pray for the aegis ships of japan and the submarine's, not to mention japan is more skilled than china it trains more.
China has taken the soviet approach and sat everyone down in a classroom it doesnt teach much unlike japan where they get out there and do it.
abramsteve
New Member
I know its a bit off topic, but how well armed/equiped are Japanese ships. I know the Kongos are a power house, but what about the Frigates and, Im not sure if they have em, their other destroyers?
I thought they were very ASW orriented
I thought they were very ASW orriented
They're extremely competent. They're using a form of CEC between the aegis "controller" vessel and the other support skimmers.abramsteve said: