Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force Thread

Japan and Vietnam to Jointly Develop Fast Landing Craft

Japan and Vietnam are looking at potentially working together to develop and produce a new fast landing craft.

Found this photo from Japanese enthusiats online, on JMSDF submarine berth in Kure. 11 being berth at one time. All 3 classes represented, from Oyashio, Soryu and Taigei.

Ananda said:

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Found this photo from Japanese enthusiats online, on JMSDF submarine berth in Kure. 11 being berth at one time. All 3 classes represented, from Oyashio, Soryu and Taigei.

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Seems like a risky concentration of essential naval defence kit at a single location. Must be 40-50% of Japan's submarine force?

John Fedup said:

Seems like a risky concentration of essential naval defence kit at a single location. Must be 40-50% of Japan's submarine force?

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What do you mean? Most countries have only a few submarine bases.

As for the way the submarines are berthed, why would you assume Japan would arrange them that way in time of war or even if war were deemed likely?

Look Kure up on a map. It's very well defended geographically. No way to approach via sea without detection because it's on the Inland Sea, and any attacking airforce would have to cross and recross land several times, with lots of places to base air defences and mountains in the way.

As for ultra long range munitions, they'd have to be fired from such extreme ranges they'd be fairly easy to intercept.

The only way to reliably take out the Kure base is with a nuclear weapon, in which case the loss of a few submarines would be the least concern.

Musashi_kenshin said:

What do you mean? Most countries have only a few submarine bases.

As for the way the submarines are berthed, why would you assume Japan would arrange them that way in time of war or even if war were deemed likely?

Look Kure up on a map. It's very well defended geographically. No way to approach via sea without detection because it's on the Inland Sea, and any attacking airforce would have to cross and recross land several times, with lots of places to base air defences and mountains in the way.

As for ultra long range munitions, they'd have to be fired from such extreme ranges they'd be fairly easy to intercept.

The only way to reliably take out the Kure base is with a nuclear weapon, in which case the loss of a few submarines would be the least concern.

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Black Sea events show the risk. Just ask the Russians. No idea about the Kure base but I still think too many eggs in the basket sucks.

John Fedup said:

Black Sea events show the risk. Just ask the Russians. No idea about the Kure base but I still think too many eggs in the basket sucks.

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John, come on, you know full well the Black Sea is an enclosed sea and that it's easy for Ukraine to attack Russian targets there because of the short distances between Ukrainian bases and Russian targets. It couldn't be further from the situation Japan is in.

Look at Kure on Google Maps. Would take you 60 seconds.

Both are actually right, on one hand many navies keep their (submarine) fleet centered at one or a small amount of bases. On the other hand, in the unlikely scenario of a surprise attack from china, the JMSDF will be in troubles if such a large amount of important assets will be instantly destroyed. These days a Pearl Harbour style of surprise attack will be very hard to execute, but luckily the political situation is now not that worrying as in 1941.

John Fedup said:

Black Sea events show the risk. Just ask the Russians. No idea about the Kure base but I still think too many eggs in the basket sucks.

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Black Sea is totally different. It's 400,000 sq km of open water, with Ukraine having a coastline on it. Russia has no control over access to it. Ukrainians can launch USVs into it directly from their own coast. They can also fire missiles directly, as when they sank Moskva, & launch drones directly, to fly over open water & attack Russian ports.

The Sea of Azov is surrounded by Russian-controlled territory & has a narrow entrance, but Ukrainian-controlled territory isn't much more than 100km away. Hitting ships in it isn't difficult. Ukraine's done it mostly with drones, I think.

The Seto Sea is just 23000 sq km, with three narrow entrances & many islands. There are bridges across it, via islands. I've seen the biggest. To get to Kure one has to pass through at least two narrow passages, either the Kanmon strait between Honshu & Kyushu (<1km in places, bridged, & very busy, with cities on both sides), or, more realistically, the Hōyo Strait (14 km & deep), & then one of a few narrow channels through a chain of islands. The biggest one is ca. 3km, & is the main shipping channel. Approaching from the east is worse: under three bridges.

The JMSDF has proven itself to be rather good at tracking submarines. Chinese submarines have tried to sneak through some of the channels between Ryukyu islands & been tracked all the way. Japan has a sophisticated SOSUS system.

Missiles or drones would have to fly a long way including over at least one of the Japanese main islands, through Japan's air defence system.

circulating online on the photo of Japan ASEV Aegis Destroyer modules being assembly in dry dock.

More photo on Japan ASEV Destroyer.

For anyone interested, these are the MHI docks at Nagasaki. The shots are probably taken from Mt. Nabekanmuri Park, opposite of the shipyard. Had a great time there.