Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

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OldNavy63

Active Member
Good morning all,

I will be happy once the location of Sydney’s new cruise ship terminal is decided upon - provided this does NOT affect Navy’s current and future plans for Fleet Base East / Garden Island.

A few years ago I thought our old Rockie mate Peter Collins had revisited the acid dropping 60s when I saw the artist’s impressions for the redevelopment of GI:

Growing a New Future at Garden Island - Project

The second stage of that proposal was for Navy to relocate to Botany Bay, To Wit to face the same environmental objections that the Yarra Bay/Botany Bay Crusie ship terminal proposal is now copping:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...al-at-sydney-s-yarra-bay-20191117-p53baz.html

Far from being a card-carrying member of the Malcolm Turnbull Adoration Society, Mal earned his lone brownie point when he knocked Petey’s proposal on the head, quite rightly, on national security grounds.

You will also recall Kevin Rudd’s brainwave in 2013:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...-closure-under-kevin-rudd-20130826-2smcd.html

Unsurprisingly, the NSW government of the day objected to Kev’s proposal because of the loss of $470M revenue that GI contributes to the NSW coffers each year. The capital cost to relocate GI anywhere ($20Bn ?? who knows ?) would be political suicide for any Federal Govt, let alone the risk to national security.

In recent weeks, The Daily Telegraph headlined the supposed peppercorn $446,196 per annum rent Defence pays the NSW Govt for the lease of berths at GI - that being FBE berths 3, 4 and 5, between Harry’s Cafe de Wheels and Wilde Street, opposite the redeveloped residential Woolloomooloo Finger Wharf.

Navy pays little rent for berths on Garden Island as cruise ships worth billions in tourism dollars turned away - Committee for Sydney

It would be a brave pilot who would back up a 100,000 GRT cruise ship between the stern of a LHD and the end of the Finger Wharf to berth at FBE 4 &5.

It would probably be cheaper for the cruise industry to actually buy the Finger Wharf from John Laws and his fellow residents and berth their vessels on its western side.

Thankfully, NSW Transport Minister Andrew Constance has ruled out further consideration of a Cruise ship terminal at GI. Nevertheless, the tourism industry is still asking when will the issue be resolved.

Minister again rules out Garden Island after Yarra Bay protests

Defence is currently spending $213M on Garden Island (east) Stage I Critical Infrastructure Recovery Program Recovery Project and $286M on Stage II.

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentar.../section?id=committees/reportjnt/024079/24724

https://www.minister.defence.gov.au...rded-second-stage-infrastructure-works-garden

I am not making political comment here. Fleet Base East/Garden Island is the home of the Australian Fleet and was my second home for 35 years.

With the arrival of the LHDs, DDGs and future Type 26, the RAN is in need of more berths not less!
 
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vonnoobie

Well-Known Member
Question. Rather then building a a cruise terminal on land has any one thought of a floating cruise terminal connected either by a bridge or ferry service? Probably not in Sydney harbor due to the heavy ship traffic but perhaps Botany Bay or such. Benefit of a floating terminal is they depending on design park cruise ships on multiple sides rather then just against the wharf if built on land. Hell throw in a glass bottom in some parts and you got the worlds largest floating glass bottom boat, Tourist attraction.
 
alexsa

alexsa

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vonnoobie said:
Question. Rather then building a a cruise terminal on land has any one thought of a floating cruise terminal connected either by a bridge or ferry service? Probably not in Sydney harbor due to the heavy ship traffic but perhaps Botany Bay or such. Benefit of a floating terminal is they depending on design park cruise ships on multiple sides rather then just against the wharf if built on land. Hell throw in a glass bottom in some parts and you got the worlds largest floating glass bottom boat, Tourist attraction.
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It would have to be a significant structure with significant anchoring arrangements to withstand the forces envolved. You could do it but why bother as you are going to have to churn up the seafloor for anchoring.

If the NSW governments of all shapes (and council) had not sold off wharf space for flats and a casino ..... they may not be in this fix.
 
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OldNavy63

Active Member
alexsa said:
It would have to be a significant structure with significant anchoring arrangements to withstand the forces envolved. You could do it but why bother as you are going to have to churn up the seafloor for anchoring.

If the NSW governments of all shapes (and council) had not sold off wharf space for flats and a casino ..... they may not be in this fix.
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I’m sure Malcolm Turnbull would be eager to earn a second brownie point by building a wharf out from his waterfront mansion, et voila, the new Point Piper Cruise Ship terminal.
 
t68

t68

Well-Known Member
I would have to go back thru the forum to find it but recall Abrahm Gubler suggestion of of a super base on the current site of Sydney’s Kingsford Smith airport,

If I recall correctly he suggested that the RAN/RAAF could make use of the site, obviously the Captain Cook graving dock will remain part of the RAN, but all the above was dependent on Badgerys Creek being built large enough to meet all of Sydney airport needs. It will also mean the closure of RAAF Richmond
 
alexsa

alexsa

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OldNavy63 said:
Another location for an additional cruise ship terminal could be the former HMAS PLATYPUS submarine base at Neutral Bay.

New visions for ongoing regeneration of former Sydney submarine base

It would require considerable dredging. Some of the former workshop and Submarine School buildings are being leased out (but not sold), and therefore could make way for a terminal.
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A LOT of dredging (and disposal of contaminated spoil) and a cleaning out of the yachts that moor there. They got so bad toward the end of the Oberon's time there that there was always a risk of clobbering them as the boats backed out.

If you were aware of the carry on from unit holders in White bay about cruise ships (noting they bought knowing there was a terminal there) you can imagine just how badly having a cruise ship terminal in Neutral Bay would be. It does not bear thinking about.

So massive environmental impact and really cross residents .... suspect that is not a goer.
 
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OldNavy63

Active Member
alexsa said:
A LOT of dredging (and disposal of contaminated spoil) and a cleaning out of the yachts that moor there. They got so bad toward the end of the Oberon's time there that there was always a risk of clobbering them as the boats backed out.

If you were aware of the carry on from unit holders in White bay about cruise ships (noting they bought knowing there was a terminal there) you can imagine just how badly having a cruise ship terminal in Neutral Bay would be. It does not bear thinking about.

So massive environmental impact and really cross residents .... suspect that is not a goer.
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Noted, thank you.

So the good folk of Woolloomooloo and those on the Finger Wharf would be expected to react likewise to any further proposals for cruise ships to berth at FBE 3 to 5.
 
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Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Stampede said:
So when will we see the names Melbourne and Newcastle on one of Her Majesty's Australian Ships.
Arafura or Hunter Class, or maybe something else?

Thoughts

Regards S
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Any ones guess, the naming has been far from predictable lately. No one predicted Attack class for the Subs, Hunter class for the Frigates or Arafura for the OPVs.
My guess is that later Hunters may revert to City names, have to throw Darwin in with Melbourne and Newcastle, maybe Hunters 4-6. The Anzacs were all over the place name wise so the precedent has been set, may see the same with the Hunters. I would be surprised if Melbourne especially got used for a Minor Warfare Vessel.
 
alexsa

alexsa

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Redlands18 said:
Any ones guess, the naming has been far from predictable lately. No one predicted Attack class for the Subs, Hunter class for the Frigates or Arafura for the OPVs.
My guess is that later Hunters may revert to City names, have to throw Darwin in with Melbourne and Newcastle, maybe Hunters 4-6. The Anzacs were all over the place name wise so the precedent has been set, may see the same with the Hunters. I would be surprised if Melbourne especially got used for a Minor Warfare Vessel.
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...... how about .... it will be used for the third LHD which will be air capable ....... Kidding!!! Sorry I could not resist.
 
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DaveS124

Active Member
Re the HUNTER frigates' names.

When the name specs were released, the only ones that immediately came to mind were FREMANTLE and COLLINGWOOD.

I think the former is all-but guaranteed, but, alas, the latter is in current RN use, so it's no-go there.
 
StingrayOZ

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Very happy to see the ships stay in the Pacific area. They might even come and visit from time to time (at least come half way for Rimpac).
alexsa said:
...... how about .... it will be used for the third LHD which will be air capable ....... Kidding!!! Sorry I could not resist.
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Don't get my hopes up.

Maybe they might get used on the navantia australia joint support ship things.
 
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hauritz

Well-Known Member
The former HMAS Brisbane was decommissioned in 2001. It took 17 years before we saw a new Brisbane. To me it would almost seem a mark of respect not to reuse a name too quickly. It somewhat cheapens a ship's legacy to just immediately think of recycling a ship's name.

I would stick with the naming conventions of the Hunter class.
 
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seaspear

Well-Known Member
DaveS124 said:
Re the HUNTER frigates' names.

When the name specs were released, the only ones that immediately came to mind were FREMANTLE and COLLINGWOOD.

I think the former is all-but guaranteed, but, alas, the latter is in current RN use, so it's no-go there.
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Collingwood could be a very popular name with the AFL connection
 
S

Stampede

Well-Known Member
hauritz said:
The former HMAS Brisbane was decommissioned in 2001. It took 17 years before we saw a new Brisbane. To me it would almost seem a mark of respect not to reuse a name too quickly. It somewhat cheapens a ship's legacy to just immediately think of recycling a ship's name.

I would stick with the naming conventions of the Hunter class.
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Interesting point regarding time lapsed and respect for a ships name.

Regards S
 
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