German Navy

[kato]

It's not the navy that wants them, it's lobbyists for TKMS in the parliament.

And yes, it probably means less F126. The official statement from the MoD is that "the two-track approach does not prejudice the future of the F126 project".

The intention is for a stop-gap, not a backup.

 

[kato]

As of July 2025 these restructuring plans were put on hold since the Bundeswehr has issued a stop on sales of any former military areas. The City of Kiel does own most of the area, but has entered (ongoing) negotiations with the Bundeswehr since with the current geopolitical climate there's the potential for the federal government simply expropriating the area for military use.

The City of Kiel and the Bundeswehr have now signed a memorandum (not legally binding for either side) about the Bundeswehr buying back the entire area in the linked post, with the exception of the future WSV base already owned by the federation. It's planned to move the naval infantry battalion from Eckernförde base to Kiel, in addition to some basic training facilities.

As part of the memorandum the Bundeswehr gets to expand its naval base in Kiel-Wik a few km south of the area. In return there are nine smaller areas throughout the city which "the Bundeswehr" (actually the federal government) will sell to the local government. These include the current WSV base, but also e.g. some federal-owned research institute and similar sites. The main portion of these returns is 12 hectares on the south side of Kiel Airport for residential development adjacent to the Bundeswehr-bought-back areas.

 

[kato]

The last of five K130 Batch 2 corvettes (Lübeck) has entered final outfitting, which technically now four out of five are in. The first of the Batch 2s, Köln, is being used for training ahead of delivery.

Lübeck is also the first ship christened at Blohm+Voss since Rheinmetall bought the shipyard.

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WSV meanwhile has commissioned multi-purpose ship Scharhörn (see video below) as well as another Emmerich class landing-craft-type river buoy tender (... also named Köln).

The Super Puma landing on Scharhörn at the beginning is Federal Police assigned to the Central Command for Maritime Emergencies (CCME, Havariekommando), i.e. the joint Bundeswehr / WSV / coastal states command for emergency tugs and oil defense.

The Bundeswehr's contribution to CCME is mostly two surveillance aircraft with military crews patrolling the German EEZ for oil spills.

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Since I looked at their website (for the first time in years) this below ship from an earlier post was commissioned a couple weeks ago in March under the name "Lütt Matten":

The coastal states jointly ordered a replacement for Orfe from Damen at the beginning of 2025 which just had its launch three weeks ago and is planned to commission early this year. This is a more standard 24m multi-purpose tugboat with an open workdeck.

The ship's design and construction was overseen by CCME. Formal owner is the state of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern which has it operated commercially. The rather small ship is stationed on Rügen island and covers the area between that island and the sea border towards Poland. Equipped as a small salvage tug with additional oil defense capability and a laboratory container (and moonpool) for hydrological survey. In case of emergencies the ship (incl. crew) comes under CCME command and has to be available for deployment within 2 hours.

 

[swerve]

Announced that the F126 has been scrapped, because Damen Schelde is unable to deliver at the agreed price or schedule, & instead eight MEKO A-200 DEU will be bought. To be very close to off the shelf, to speed delivery.

F126 cancelled - replaced by MEKO A-200 DEU

Mainly ASW, & reported to have the same towed sonar as F126. It'll be interesting to see the rest of the fitout of the ships. The F126 seemed very big for its weapons. This could be the opposite.

 

[kato]

This could be the opposite.

Eh, the outfit will be rather limited compared to F126.

Let's better not talk about how we'll also be paying five times as much as other customers paid for them...

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Eh, the outfit will be rather limited compared to F126.

Let's better not talk about how we'll also be paying five times as much as other customers paid for them...

So, do you regard this as a positive or negative development? Or do you think the amount of ordered MEKO A200 should be lower, as some kind of interim solution, while searching for another design to replace the design of Koninklijke Schelde? Germany has enough capable shipyards to design and construct naval vessels without foreign shipyards.

Sadly this destroyer sized class is in its current form only capable to deliver punches at the same level of a corvette/light frigate, but the F125 class is maybe a suitable design to begin with. It is probably built in this way to satisfy the hippies in the German government, and Germany should also give the F125 class a better upgrade than only add some IRIS-T launchers.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Eh, the outfit will be rather limited compared to F126.

I am kind of confused. Is there only one ship yard in Germany? Can't they start another build somewhere else, even if its outside of Germany, at least complete the first pair of F126?

Australia is building a Type 26 Hunter class, probably larger than a F-126, will take a long time to complete. It is also acquiring smaller 6,000t frigates.

 

[SolarisKenzo]

I am kind of confused. Is there only one ship yard in Germany? Can't they start another build somewhere else, even if its outside of Germany, at least complete the first pair of F126?

Australia is building a Type 26 Hunter class, probably larger than a F-126, will take a long time to complete. It is also acquiring smaller 6,000t frigates.

F-126 was always a very difficult program. They probably said "you know what.. before its too late, let's end this".

European shipyards are currently building at capacity or very close to capacity.
National programs and export are really putting pressure on our facilities. Also thanks to the fact that the americans do not export.

 

[Sandson41]

I am kind of confused. Is there only one ship yard in Germany? Can't they start another build somewhere else, even if its outside of Germany, at least complete the first pair of F126?

The article indicates they considered switching the contract to Lurssen, now part of Rheinmetall (and definitely German), but found they were asking too much.

18 million Euros compared to the planned 10 million... And then they couldn't sue Damen.
Sounds like things are getting unpleasant.

But they want new ships by 2029. If Damen couldn't do that, I don't see how anyone could (with F126).

 

[swerve]

The article indicates they considered switching the contract to Lurssen, now part of Rheinmetall (and definitely German), but found they were asking too much.

18 million Euros compared to the planned 10 million... And then they couldn't sue Damen.
Sounds like things are getting unpleasant.

Billion, not million.

But they want new ships by 2029. If Damen couldn't do that, I don't see how anyone could (with F126).

Absolutely. I assume delivering MEKO A200 earlier than F126 is feasible because it's pretty much off the shelf apart from some changes to equipment, & a much smaller & simpler ship.

 

[swerve]

Eh, the outfit will be rather limited compared to F126.

Let's better not talk about how we'll also be paying five times as much as other customers paid for them...

Ouch! I found the cost estimates surprising, considering the ships.

What do you know (or think) about the fitout? What I've seen published in English is very limited. Is the story that it'll be similar to the modernised F123s right?

 

[76mmGuns]

In my amateur mind, I don't see how this is a downgrade.

The F126 was 10000 tons , but weapons load was worse than some corvettes/missile boats/very light frigates, listed range was worse than the Meko 200.

I could never work out what the extra 5000 tons was for. It's not range. Is it armour? I doubt it. Fuel? Not according to official publically available information. I can only think it's for some extra crew, a big kitchen and massive food pantry. There is no mention it's for carrying extra spare towed array sonars, for example.

If the Meko 200 is a downgrade, someone please explain to me what the F126 can do that the Meko 200 can't, besides carry more food.

 

[kato]

What do you know (or think) about the fitout? What I've seen published in English is very limited. Is the story that it'll be similar to the modernised F123s right?

Yes, it will be similar, likely more restricted. There simply isn't space on the design for anything more. Keep in mind that e.g. Meko A200 has not been designed for a Mk41 VLS in the first place.

I could never work out what the extra 5000 tons was for.

Fully decoupled and redundant machinery with ample space around it to work on it for damage control, which is something most compact European designs lack. F125 already had it to some extent. Also future upgrade space.

I am kind of confused. Is there only one ship yard in Germany?

Germany only has two companies (groups) designing and building surface combat ships as general contractors. That's TKMS and NVL. Any other shipyard only works as a subcontractor/supplier in such projects, and is often either aligned or partially or fully owned by one of the two.

- The government was trying to circumvent their usual price-gouging and extravagancies by having F126 handed out to a "third party" outside the country (DSNS - Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding) instead.
- When that didn't work they first tried to have the project transferred to one of the two German companies (NVL). Which apparently isn't able to complete it to anything remotely resembling the terms the government wants - partially because they have fresh new owners right now (Rheinmetall) and are restructuring their business.
- So the other company (TKMS) gets its attempt with F128 instead.

 

[kato]

On shipyards, broad structure of the landscape in Germany:

• Full general contractors
  • TKMS
  • Rheinmetall NVL (Lürssen)
    • Blohm + Voss
    • Nobiskrug
    • Norderwerft
    • Peene-Werft
  • CMN (France) / Privinvest (Lebanon)
    • German Naval Yards Kiel (GNYK)
      • Lindenau (repairs only)
• Military construction as subcontractors
  • Rönner Group
    • Flensburger Schiffbau-Gesellschaft (FSG)
    • Lloyd-Werft (repairs only) (partially owned)
  • Meyer Family / Meyer Neptun
    • Meyer Werft
    • Neptun Werft
• Small vessel shipyards (below frigate size)
  • Abeking & Rasmussen
  • Fassmer

GNYK itself in the above is a "minor" general contractor that mostly builds full projects for other countries (example: Sa'ar 6 for Israel). They otherwise engage as subcontractors to the big two.
There also used to be a few more subcontractor shipyards than the ones listed, although the only notable recent one i can think of is MV Werften (which is now owned by the Navy as an arsenal), most notable one in general was Bremer Vulkan until the mid 90s.

The big combat ship projects in Germany are always handed to joint ventures of the two big general contractors, socalled ARGE ("work consortium"). These ARGE work out workshares for their yards - which differ with each project - and may subcontract to the others. This was the case for F125, F124, F123, K130. There is also already an ARGE F127 formed in 2024. There was no such group for F126 though.

Auxiliary ship projects are handed to one of the general contractors as project leaders with the actual work then done by one of the subcontractor shipyards. For example for A707, the current tankers, the main competing bids consisted of NVL lead with Meyer building (won) and GNYK lead with FSG building.

This is "how it's always been done" btw. Despite constant insolvencies and such the shipyard structure in Germany is pretty static. Previous combat ship projects before F123 in the 1950s to 1970s (F122, F120, D101) were all built with one general contractor (and that's basically Blohm+Voss, meaning NVL today) plus subcontracting other yards.

For the F126/F128 story:

1. F126 instead of an ARGE had Damen outside the above as its general contractor, with actual construction of the ships subcontracted to Peene-Werft (rear half) and GNYK (front half and assembly). Problems occured in coordination between Damen and GNYK. Since Peene-Werft was already involved the government tried to hand the whole project to NVL as the owner of Peene-Werft instead.
2. CMN/Privinvest has been trying to sell GNYK since 2024. The company's history is difficult. Effectively they're a former part of a current subcompany of TKMS sold off separately to investors. Rheinmetall then recently went and tried to buy up GNYK. That would have made F126 entirely inhouse for them and consolidated the project.
3. TKMS meanwhile had their lobbyists work to get a F128 "pre-contract" guaranteeing them a contract if F126 fails, with deadlines for orders at end of March (first four ships - ordered) and end of June (second four ships).
4. So TKMS then submits a competing offer for GNYK, and "surprisingly" at the beginning of this month also an unpaid bill (1.7m Euro, peanuts) at GNYK surfaces stalling the selling of the yard to either party. To a point where it's unlikely to be sold, and F126 therefore to be consolidated, before the second deadline for F128 orders. Result: Government finally pulls the plug on F126 and commits to the second F128 batch.

 

[kato]

What do you know (or think) about the fitout? What I've seen published in English is very limited. Is the story that it'll be similar to the modernised F123s right?

There will be an attempt to recycle components already bought for F126 for F128. The ships were already under construction after all.

It is considered likely that F128 will reuse the already bought active towed array sonars from F126, however permanently built-in instead of modular. The same goes for Mk41, mostly because you're not gonna get any more than the eight already ordered 8-cell modules from the USA before the mid 2030s.

Aviation facilities will be massively cut down just due to size, basically one-third the capability/capacity of F126. They'll end up with a single helo, and that's it. Which makes them pretty much "barely usable" for ASW despite the focus on that.

No one's talking about radar yet. Doubt the TRS-4D NROT already bought for F126 will fit.

All crisis management / maritime intervention features of F126 will not be available in F128. Period. The Navy doesn't want to do that kind of thing.

The integration has a lot of pitfalls and unresolved issues especially timewise.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Great posts, I have been looking through some journalism, and never really got a break down on the situation like this. I thought Fassmer was bigger I thought Damen had a footprint in Germany. There have been so many changes in the past 30 years..

I thought the Meko A200 was quite a compact design, it seems ambitious to have much of this fitted. The Meko 200 wasn't really designed to be a fully loaded mega platform.

 

[kato]

Fassmer can only build ships up to 130 Meters length at their facilities (largest built has been federal science ship Meteor IV at 125 meters). They also had to contract out the hull building since they couldn't do that at their place, usually to a company in Lithuania. They started renting part of another shipyard end of last year to address that, but it's not like they can suddenly "join the big boys".

Situation for A&R is pretty similar. The main difference is that A&R also has a yacht business, while Fassmer concentrates on "special ship building" for public authorities. Fassmer does a fairly large number of boats in the 20-30 meter size category (SAR boats, police boats etc)

Due to their similar situation - and also being fairly close by location - they do occasionally cooperate on contracts, like on that survey ship for Indonesia.

 

[koxinga]

Fassmer can only build ships up to 130 Meters length at their facilities (largest built has been federal science ship Meteor IV at 125 meters). They also had to contract out the hull building since they couldn't do that at their place, usually to a company in Lithuania. They started renting part of another shipyard end of last year to address that, but it's not like they can suddenly "join the big boys".

Western Baltic Shipyard / Western Baltija Shipbuilding (BLRT Western Shipyard – Let’s build future ships together)

Western Baltic Shipyard: Keel laid for Singapore's offshore patrol vessel duo

Western Baltic Shipyard has revealed that a keel-laying ceremony was held for Singapore's first two offshore patrol vessels (OPVs).

www.navaltoday.com

 

[koxinga]

Keep in mind that e.g. Meko A200 has not been designed for a Mk41 VLS in the first place.

Doubt the TRS-4D NROT already bought for F126 will fit.

As part of the Australian contest, TKMS offerred the A210 design with MK41 VLS, fixed AESA etc. Would any of those knowledge or preliminary design work be reused?

 

[kato]

Would any of those knowledge or preliminary design work be reused?

Likely. There's zero confirmed information about how exactly F128 (TKMS-internal: "MEKO A-200 DEU") will be designed though.